Energy costs for home

[BCram]

and business. Seems to me that the profits being made by the energy suppliers are being made because there has been little increase in the cost of production. This forum has guys who know the nuts and bolts of energy production and I hope that they might have some calming thoughts.
The Suez crisis lead to petrol rationing and people didn't use their cars, if they had them. The miners strike in the 70's led to 3 day week and a major shift in energy supplies.I think we are being panicked by a Mainstream TV service that mistakenly believes that by showing evermore graphic tales of personal dismay at price rises, and contrasting this with the profligate payments to the energy industry they are actually helping.
My view is that they are wrong. Demonising politicians, who are the only people, I think, can curb or change the systems we have for selling energy, will do nothing to help us.

[islaydarkblue]

and business. Seems to me that the profits being made by the energy suppliers are being made because there has been little increase in the cost of production. This forum has guys who know the nuts and bolts of energy production and I hope that they might have some calming thoughts.
The Suez crisis lead to petrol rationing and people didn't use their cars, if they had them. The miners strike in the 70's led to 3 day week and a major shift in energy supplies.I think we are being panicked by a Mainstream TV service that mistakenly believes that by showing evermore graphic tales of personal dismay at price rises, and contrasting this with the profligate payments to the energy industry they are actually helping.
My view is that they are wrong. Demonising politicians, who are the only people, I think, can curb or change the systems we have for selling energy, will do nothing to help us.
Thanks for your post.
I can remember in 1973 the price of oil shot up and petrol coupons were given to every car owner in the U.K. to be used in the event of a shortage of petrol. No unleaded petrol in 1973 because the magic words ‘climate change’ was never used.
In my opinion the cost of social tariffs, feed in tariffs paid to the owners of wind turbines and solar panels and the cost of installing 1st generation and 2nd generation smart meters should never have been added to the cost of energy bills but instead paid by general taxation.
Ofgem should be publishing the maximum unit price per kilowatt hour and daily standing charge that an electricity billing company can charge with effect from 1st October 2022.
I also think that businesses should be charged the same unit price per kilowatt hour and daily standing charge for electricity and gas as a domestic customer.
These businesses use the same electricity as people living in a house so why are businesses being fleeced by electricity billing companies.
Businesses who use heating oil pay the same price for a litre of heating oil as a domestic customer so why not the same for electricity and gas billing companies.
Politicians in both Scotland and England should be explaining why there is no price cap for businesses in Scotland, England and Wales for electricity and gas.
Finally. A couple of weeks ago there was an article in the Sunday Times newspaper where the owner of Octopus energy stated that he was still using energy that he purchased two years ago. If correct then Octopus customers are being ripped off as he is charging a far higher price for their energy than he paid for it.
Ofgem should be demanding that all the electricity and gas billing companies state when they purchased their gas and electricity and what price they paid for it.
No doubt companies like Octopus will now be stating that we will have to pay high prices for our electricity and gas because it will take many years for it to be used.
Too bad. When the price of electricity and gas falls we should be receiving a reduction in our electricity and gas bills at the first quarterly review.

[BCram]

Islay, I think the problem is that trying to sell fixed price contracts at competitive prices to grow their business, they are mistakenly thinking that this is a good way for an energy company to operate. EDF for example are part owned by the French government. Maybe we should review our free market approach?

[islaydarkblue]

Islay, I think the problem is that trying to sell fixed price contracts at competitive prices to grow their business, they are mistakenly thinking that this is a good way for an energy company to operate. EDF for example are part owned by the French government. Maybe we should review our free market approach?
Opening up the electricity and gas billing market without ensuring that all electricity and billings companies were fully funded was a big mistake by Ofgem and we are now paying the costs of all these companies going bust through the greatly increased of the daily standing charge on our bills.
Incidentally there is no standing charge on heating oil bills because heating oil customers are responsible for the installation and cost of their own oil tank.

[deecom]

most of the energy companies in Europe are regulated by their own governments, thats why companies like EDF are here in Britain.
The energy companies are not regulated in Britain and can raise their prices when it suits them.

[noahrab]

most of the energy companies in Europe are regulated by their own governments, thats why companies like EDF are here in Britain.
The energy companies are not regulated in Britain and can raise their prices when it suits them.

EDF is nationalised.

They use nuclear.

They are currently 35bn in debt.

The French taxpayer picks up the tab.

[BCram]

EDF is nationalised.

They use nuclear.

They are currently 35bn in debt.

The French taxpayer picks up the tab.

Is this a better way to provide energy?

[islaydarkblue]

Is this a better way to provide energy?
Nicola and Wee Pat do not want anymore new nuclear power stations built in Scotland as they both think that the wind turbines and solar panels will keep the lights on in Scotland 24/7 throughout the whole of the year including the dark winter months.

[islaydarkblue]

Is this a better way to provide energy?
It is certainly a more reliable way to provide electricity.

[BCram]

Got a quote for business gas. Went from about 4p per kW to 45p per kW then 25p per kW. The supply companies are at it!

[Deeranged]

Finally. A couple of weeks ago there was an article in the Sunday Times newspaper where the owner of Octopus energy stated that he was still using energy that he purchased two years ago. If correct then Octopus customers are being ripped off as he is charging a far higher price for their energy than he paid for it.
Ofgem should be demanding that all the electricity and gas billing companies state when they purchased their gas and electricity and what price they paid for it.


Surely they have to charge the going rate regardless of when the energy was procured? Otherwise they can't afford market price to replenish resulting ultimately in them running out - that helps nobody.

[BCram]

Surely they have to charge the going rate regardless of when the energy was procured? Otherwise they can't afford market price to replenish resulting ultimately in them running out - that helps nobody.

Exactly. Price cap system useless.

[islaydarkblue]

Exactly. Price cap system useless.
If the energy price cap was not in place we would be paying around £6,000 per annum for electricity and gas.

[islaydarkblue]

Surely they have to charge the going rate regardless of when the energy was procured? Otherwise they can't afford market price to replenish resulting ultimately in them running out - that helps nobody.
So you are happy to pay 26p per unit for your electricity which has previously been purchased by electricity billing companies like Octopus for half the price namely 13p per unit.

[Deeranged]

So you are happy to pay 26p per unit for your electricity which has previously been purchased by electricity billing companies like Octopus for half the price namely 13p per unit.

Not really but I don't want my provider to turn round six months from now and say they're out of business because they haven't been able to replenish stocks.

Exactly the same happens when diesel and petrol prices go up - barrel price goes up by $X.xx the pump prices don't follow when stocks have been depleted do they? They go up at the same time because if the retailer runs the tanks down to zero the customer goes elsewhere when they close the gates and put the 'no fuel' signs up. Then they don't have enough cash to buy the next delivery.

Do supermarkets put the price of existing stock up when suppliers tell them the next batch is going to be 10p more expensive when they order it? Too right they do, they need that money to afford the next batch.

It's not rocket science Islay.

[The AuldYin]

So you are happy to pay 26p per unit for your electricity which has previously been purchased by electricity billing companies like Octopus for half the price namely 13p per unit.

I buy and sell at a profit every day is that not the point of being in business?

[BCram]

If any energy supplier thinks that the public will use the same amount of energy this winter they are kidding themselves. There will be many fewer hours of central heating used and the temperature on thermostats will be turned right down. Single living room heating like we used to have before the days of gas central heating might become the norm.
Europe is talking about energy rationing. Seems a sensible response to the price rises.

[BCram]

So you are happy to pay 26p per unit for your electricity which has previously been purchased by electricity billing companies like Octopus for half the price namely 13p per unit.

Islay, the point being made by Deeranged is that this is absolutely standard commercial practice. I think there will be a massive drop in demand for energy and there will be some spare capacity as a result. The prices I gave for gas, current price about 4p per kwhr, then 46p then a drop down to 26p just shows the volatility. I think the government should limit dividend payments to the level that energy companies per paying pre covid and it would be interesting to see what might happen if ceo and boardroom pay was controlled to restrict it to the percentage pay rise paid to their workers.

[islaydarkblue]

Islay, the point being made by Deeranged is that this is absolutely standard commercial practice. I think there will be a massive drop in demand for energy and there will be some spare capacity as a result. The prices I gave for gas, current price about 4p per kwhr, then 46p then a drop down to 26p just shows the volatility. I think the government should limit dividend payments to the level that energy companies per paying pre covid and it would be interesting to see what might happen if ceo and boardroom pay was controlled to restrict it to the percentage pay rise paid to their workers.
As a result of the Covid pandemic in 2020 the dividend payment made by BP fell by more than 50% due to the price of oil falling at one point below zero as demand for petrol and oil collapsed.
People of working age should remember that £1 in every £7 of BP dividend payments is made to pension funds. If the U.K. Government decides to continually clobber the major oil companies for windfall taxes they will move their headquarters overseas and not bother spending money trying to find oil in U.K. waters.
They will go elsewhere in the world to look for oil and gas.
In 2016 Nicola Sturgeon and the Scottish Government begged the U.K. Government to reduce the taxation charged on oil companies due to a slowdown in the North Sea oil production and now the same SNP controlled Scottish Government are wanting to increase the taxation paid by oil companies because the oil industry is booming worldwide.

[islaydarkblue]

Not really but I don't want my provider to turn round six months from now and say they're out of business because they haven't been able to replenish stocks.

Exactly the same happens when diesel and petrol prices go up - barrel price goes up by $X.xx the pump prices don't follow when stocks have been depleted do they? They go up at the same time because if the retailer runs the tanks down to zero the customer goes elsewhere when they close the gates and put the 'no fuel' signs up. Then they don't have enough cash to buy the next delivery.

Do supermarkets put the price of existing stock up when suppliers tell them the next batch is going to be 10p more expensive when they order it? Too right they do, they need that money to afford the next batch.

It's not rocket science Islay.
If your electricity billing company goes bust then your account will be taken on by another electricity billing company.

[Deeranged]

If your electricity billing company goes bust then your account will be taken on by another electricity billing company.

Until they all go bust bar maybe two three of the very biggest. What do you think that would do to prices?

[BCram]

I am coming round to the view that perhaps the public utilities are not suitable businesses for private ownership. It just seems odd that foreign governments have controlling shareholdings in English water companies and electricity companies. I think the initial privatisation issues were entered around government debt and the interest payments needed to sustain that debt. Seems to me we are way beyond that now and perhaps the greed/profit motivation has gone too far and we need to clip the privatised utilities wings and get them focused on good service at a sustainable price.
Have read a bit about franking but I can't make my mind up about it. Those against it seem to be making arguments that are theoretical and those for it seem to be motivated by money above anything else. They also seem unwilling to accept any of the con erns voiced by the antis.

[Deeranged]

I am coming round to the view that perhaps the public utilities are not suitable businesses for private ownership. It just seems odd that foreign governments have controlling shareholdings in English water companies and electricity companies. I think the initial privatisation issues were entered around government debt and the interest payments needed to sustain that debt. Seems to me we are way beyond that now and perhaps the greed/profit motivation has gone too far and we need to clip the privatised utilities wings and get them focused on good service at a sustainable price.
Have read a bit about franking but I can't make my mind up about it. Those against it seem to be making arguments that are theoretical and those for it seem to be motivated by money above anything else. They also seem unwilling to accept any of the con erns voiced by the antis.

Fracking, like the continued exploration and expoitation of offshore gas and oil reserves, is absolutely essential. Time to get the greens shut up, like you say all their arguments are what ifs and are all worst case scenarios.

[parcbara]

Fracking, like the continued exploration and expoitation of offshore gas and oil reserves, is absolutely essential. Time to get the greens shut up, like you say all their arguments are what ifs and are all worst case scenarios.

Unfortunately, it would appear that the government of Scotland, no doubt influenced by the warped green party, do not agree with fracking.

[noahrab]

Unfortunately, it would appear that the government of Scotland, no doubt influenced by the warped green party, do not agree with fracking.

How do I fire my gas boiler if the wind stops blowing?

[BCram]

Really depressing to listen to Labour talking about green jobs and renewable energy. We are seeing the flaws in these arguments here in Scotland and it is worrying that Westminster might end up with a similar crackpot philosophy at the heart of a Labour dominated government.

[noahrab]

Really depressing to listen to Labour talking about green jobs and renewable energy. We are seeing the flaws in these arguments here in Scotland and it is worrying that Westminster might end up with a similar crackpot philosophy at the heart of a Labour dominated government.

If we think bills are high now just wait until we have to replace existing technologies for heating our houses.

[islaydarkblue]

If we think bills are high now just wait until we have to replace existing technologies for heating our houses.
The SNP Government have stated that from 2024 all new builds plus businesses will have to install heat pumps instead of gas boilers.
As usual these halfwits at Holyrood have not mentioned anything about the people who install get a gas fired boiler as their house is not on the gas grid network because Nippy and Wee Pat are only interested in people living in the area between Greater Glasgow and Greater Edinburgh.

[islaydarkblue]

I am coming round to the view that perhaps the public utilities are not suitable businesses for private ownership. It just seems odd that foreign governments have controlling shareholdings in English water companies and electricity companies. I think the initial privatisation issues were entered around government debt and the interest payments needed to sustain that debt. Seems to me we are way beyond that now and perhaps the greed/profit motivation has gone too far and we need to clip the privatised utilities wings and get them focused on good service at a sustainable price.
Have read a bit about franking but I can't make my mind up about it. Those against it seem to be making arguments that are theoretical and those for it seem to be motivated by money above anything else. They also seem unwilling to accept any of the con erns voiced by the antis.
There is nothing wrong with the companies that produce the electricity and gas.
The system worked fine in Scotland where SSE and Scottish Power were both electricity generating and billing companies.
The main problem lies with allowing people set up electricity and gas billing companies in their own home which were hopelessly under capitalised and were purchasing electricity and gas from the wholesale markets on a daily basis.
That is fine when prices are stable but when gas and electricity prices on the wholesale spot market greatly increase in price these billing companies go bust because their customers are linked into annual contracts at a much lower rate.

[The AuldYin]

Heat pumps are very unreliable and don't run efficiently at lower temperatures, they're not the answer.

[BCram]

There is nothing wrong with the companies that produce the electricity and gas.
The system worked fine in Scotland where SSE and Scottish Power were both electricity generating and billing companies.
The main problem lies with allowing people set up electricity and gas billing companies in their own home which were hopelessly under capitalised and were purchasing electricity and gas from the wholesale markets on a daily basis.
That is fine when prices are stable but when gas and electricity prices on the wholesale spot market greatly increase in price these billing companies go bust because their customers are linked into annual contracts at a much lower rate.

Agree. I still think that there is an argument for state ownership of energy and water companies.

[islaydarkblue]

Agree. I still think that there is an argument for state ownership of energy and water companies.
The North of Scotland Electricity Board and the South of Scotland Electricity Board were both government owned whilst Scottish Water is bankrolled by the Scottish Government.

[BCram]

OVO who took over the retail bit of SSE are telling me that they recommend that I have a credit balance with them of 3 months worth of the value of one months energy bill. anyone in a similar boat, and recommend an alternative! apologies for returning to this topic but my fingers are freezing as I type this because of a self imposed ban on using our gas central heating. Just shows how soft I have become since my childhood where central heating was a rarity and being cold, with ice forming on the inside of single gkazed sash windows was the norm.

[islaydarkblue]

OVO who took over the retail bit of SSE are telling me that they recommend that I have a credit balance with them of 3 months worth of the value of one months energy bill. anyone in a similar boat, and recommend an alternative! apologies for returning to this topic but my fingers are freezing as I type this because of a self imposed ban on using our gas central heating. Just shows how soft I have become since my childhood where central heating was a rarity and being cold, with ice forming on the inside of single gkazed sash windows was the norm.
There is nothing to stop you going into the SSE OVO website and changing the amount of your monthly direct debit to a more realistic amount.
I have previously phoned SSE OVO and advised their customer service officer that I was not running up a savings account for the benefit of owner of OVO to use in case it went bust.
I complained that these crazy high monthly direct debit amounts never happened when SSE also operated as a energy billing company.
The OVO customer service officer admitted to me that things have become a lot worse since OVO purchased SSE’s domestic and business energy billing list of customers for £500 million.
I too can remember our house not having central heating with the single glazed windows having patterns of ice on the inside of the panes of glass.
Goodness knows how the current generation would have survived during the winter of 1962-63 with no central heating.
I remember my parents getting night storage heaters installed in late 1963 and it was a joy to get up in the morning in a nice warm house.
In my opinion if you are cold you should switch on your gas central heating as there are no pockets in shrouds.

[parcbara]

There is nothing to stop you going into the SSE OVO website and changing the amount of your monthly direct debit to a more realistic amount.
I have previously phoned SSE OVO and advised their customer service officer that I was not running up a savings account for the benefit of owner of OVO to use in case it went bust.
I complained that these crazy high monthly direct debit amounts never happened when SSE also operated as a energy billing company.
The OVO customer service officer admitted to me that things have become a lot worse since OVO purchased SSE’s domestic and business energy billing list of customers for £500 million.
I too can remember our house not having central heating with the single glazed windows having patterns of ice on the inside of the panes of glass.
Goodness knows how the current generation would have survived during the winter of 1962-63 with no central heating.
I remember my parents getting night storage heaters installed in late 1963 and it was a joy to get up in the morning in a nice warm house.
In my opinion if you are cold you should switch on your gas central heating as there are no pockets in shrouds.
I was brought up in a semi in St Mary's. Can remember drawing pictures of the frost on the inside of the metal framed windows. Think we just kept our coats on in the winter. That wee two bar electric fire heated about a foot radius. Different world now.

[BCram]

I was brought up in a semi in St Mary's. Can remember drawing pictures of the frost on the inside of the metal framed windows. Think we just kept our coats on in the winter. That wee two bar electric fire heated about a foot radius. Different world now.

Exactly. What happens to the energy prices if everyone puts on their coats and switches off their heating? Very interesting discussion about housing in Germany where the plans are to reduce the amount of heating needed by building much better insulated houses.

[BCram]

Looks like rationing might be on the way. Go help us having to reset every digital appliance that has a stand by mode. Would like to know how it is going to work?

[The AuldYin]

Looks like rationing might be on the way. Go help us having to reset every digital appliance that has a stand by mode. Would like to know how it is going to work?

Blackouts and rationing is the surely the best outcome? I can't think of any appliance in ma hoose that would need reset after a power cut.

[islaydarkblue]

I was brought up in a semi in St Mary's. Can remember drawing pictures of the frost on the inside of the metal framed windows. Think we just kept our coats on in the winter. That wee two bar electric fire heated about a foot radius. Different world now.
I too was brought in a house that had no central heating and I can still remember how cold it was during the winter if 1962-63 when the panes of glass in the morning were frozen on the inside as well as the outside.
With the introduction of central heating in houses people have become soft and will take bad if there are power cuts as a gas central heating system still need electricity to power the pump.
People will need to plan ahead in they are warned of impending power cuts and make sure that they have flasks of hot water for cups of tea or coffee plus to fill a hot water bottle if need be.
In January 2013 we had a power cut on Islay which lasted 53 hours and 20 minutes.
Fortunately we have a wood burning stove which kept our living room warm.
After the power cut was over we purchased a camping gas stove plus extra gas canisters which lets us boil pans of water, soup etc.
We have several power cuts per year on Islay usually thanks to geese flying into power lines but in November 2019 the main electricity cable from the Mainland to the island of Jura and then onto to Islay lying was wrecked. I suspect that a scallop dredger fishing boat operating in the area wrecked the Main cable which was out of action for 6 months.
Fortunately the diesel powered electricity generating station consuming 100,000 litres of diesel per day kept the lights and heating on in Islay plus production at the 9 whisky distilleries working full time on the island.
Wee Greta and the leaders of Extinction Rebellion would have done their nut if they had known about the CO2 emissions and pollution created by this diesel power in Bowmore working flat out for 6 months.