Women’s Tennis

[baggieal]

Whilst you would expect more strength and power in men’s tennis - women’s tennis is crap!

Why two sets? So the final yesterday was around 1 hour and 3 mins. One game in todays men’s final was a third of that time. Equal pay - complete b ollox!!

Not much quality either - lots of double faults - hitting the net and no rally’s!

Not impressed!!

PS - we should ask Katie Boulter to be Baggie Bird!

[BARBaggies82]

Whilst you would expect more strength and power in men’s tennis - women’s tennis is crap!

Why two sets? So the final yesterday was around 1 hour and 3 mins. One game in todays men’s final was a third of that time. Equal pay - complete b ollox!!

Not much quality either - lots of double faults - hitting the net and no rally’s!

Not impressed!!

PS - we should ask Katie Boulter to be Baggie Bird!

Gone fishing eh Al? 😆

Have to agree though. I'm watching Alcaraz Vs Djokovic just now and it's tremendous viewing. Fitness levels unbelievable

[mickd1961]

Women are just about to get equal pay at all tennis tournaments.

If I was a woman, I’d like to think I’d be happy to accept lower pay than for men due to the reduced quality of play and the fewer number of sets played.

There’s so many people pushing equality that tennis has been forced into this.

Good luck to any woman expecting £400k a week for playing football though.

[soulman101]

Women are just about to get equal pay at all tennis tournaments.

If I was a woman, I’d like to think I’d be happy to accept lower pay than for men due to the reduced quality of play and the fewer number of sets played.

There’s so many people pushing equality that tennis has been forced into this.

Good luck to any woman expecting £400k a week for playing football though.
Hi Mick,, does your sales go up during Wimbledon.

[BARBaggies82]

That Alcaraz is some player

If he can get more of his first serves in and stops trying the odd lob that tries to knock the local aircraft out of the sky then he is gonna be unstoppable for some years to come

[WBA1955]

Whilst you would expect more strength and power in men’s tennis - women’s tennis is crap!

Why two sets? So the final yesterday was around 1 hour and 3 mins. One game in todays men’s final was a third of that time. Equal pay - complete b ollox!!

Not much quality either - lots of double faults - hitting the net and no rally’s!

Not impressed!!

PS - we should ask Katie Boulter to be Baggie Bird!

You should see them when they get behind a steering wheel.

[mickd1961]

Hi Mick,, does your sales go up during Wimbledon.

The first week AFTER Wimbledon is usually the best week of the year for sales other than the couple of peak weeks around Xmas Lloyd.

The effect of this has diminished in recent years though with the dominance of Djokovic who is not well liked by the tennis loving public.

The peak years were when Federer, Murray, Nadal and Djokovic were at their peak.

I predicted Alcaraz to get to the final but I thought Djokovic would beat him this year.

Alcaraz is the best thing in men’s tennis since Federer, we really need another world class U.K. player though.

Young Henry Searle won the Wimbledon junior title today but unfortunately he supported the Dingles…….it may be hard to get behind him!

[boingy]

I think you are underestimating the quality of womens tennis. Let me just illustrate. I was captain of a mens team some years ago and when we went to play the away team we saw Anne keothavong practising in a warm up on one of the courts. (Anne was often out first round at wimbledon).
We were completely gobsmacked at the pace and speed of the ball between these two female players. It was super fast. This was someone who you didn't get to see much because the competition is so high. These are top athletes. Honestly we will never forget what we saw and it puts completely in context the level of the quarter finalists, semi finalists and finalists. Tennis is a very tough sport. I had more injuries playing Tennis than I ever did playing football. I stopped playing when my cartilage turned inside out and I needed an op. Tore my calf muscles a lot and had a torn achilles which took months to get right. I also completely ripped out a finger nail serving. On tour they patch themselves up as much as they can but often they have to drop out with the wrong injury.

[mickd1961]

I think you are underestimating the quality of womens tennis. Let me just illustrate. I was captain of a mens team some years ago and when we went to play the away team we saw Anne keothavong practising in a warm up on one of the courts. (Anne was often out first round at wimbledon).
We were completely gobsmacked at the pace and speed of the ball between these two female players. It was super fast. This was someone who you didn't get to see much because the competition is so high. These are top athletes. Honestly we will never forget what we saw and it puts completely in context the level of the quarter finalists, semi finalists and finalists. Tennis is a very tough sport. I had more injuries playing Tennis than I ever did playing football. I stopped playing when my cartilage turned inside out and I needed an op. Tore my calf muscles a lot and had a torn achilles which took months to get right. I also completely ripped out a finger nail serving. On tour they patch themselves up as much as they can but often they have to drop out with the wrong injury.

I’ve been at ground level at the Birmingham Classic and I agree with what you say, you can barely see the ball and most of us wouldn’t return one in a hundred serves from an average women tournament player.

The point is, if you put the woman up against a man in competition it’s not even close, you’d be looking at 6-0, 6-0, 6-0.

The quality isn’t even close.

[baggieal]

That Alcaraz is some player

If he can get more of his first serves in and stops trying the odd lob that tries to knock the local aircraft out of the sky then he is gonna be unstoppable for some years to come


Great player and he thoroughly deserved to win today. Very likeable guy too which helps to get the public on your side.

Really good final and enjoyed it! Think - this kid is only 20!!!

[baggieal]

I’ve been at ground level at the Birmingham Classic and I agree with what you say, you can barely see the ball and most of us wouldn’t return one in a hundred serves from an average women tournament player.

The point is, if you put the woman up against a man in competition it’s not even close, you’d be looking at 6-0, 6-0, 6-0.

The quality isn’t even close.


That’s my point Mick! It’s not just about strength as its strategy and quality. Either of these men finalists today as you say would no doubt hammer the woman’s finalist 6-0 in each set. Not just that - each set would be over in no time at all!

[animallittle3]

Sort this out no problem , make women play best of five sets at the slams same as the men .

Sorry ladies but you'll just have to train harder won't you .

Equal pay , equal workload .

I'll give you equality ladies alright .

[On Balance]

Females are not as physically strong as males, generally at least( I may get ripped appear t for that comment, but it is so. It is a fact). So if you ask females to play the best of five sets, it is likely that the standard of play will drop to an unacceptable level for it to be an interesting watch.

If females play for less time than males is it fair they fat the same pay. I wonder if they put in the same amount of effort to go through say three seats as a male does going through five sets, should they not be rewarded equally. Just a thought. Is there a wrong or right!

As a side note, I generally watch Wimbledon. However, the fact the club backtracked on permitting certain nationalities from playing, I could not be arsed as there is an element of hypocrisy.

[mickd1961]

Women’s athletic ability is generally about 10% worse than a man’s in you look at athletes in athletics.

The differential in tennis, football and cricket is massively bigger than that.

If Wimbledon was a women’s only event like Eastbourne the crowds wouldn’t even reach 50% of what they do each year, maybe 35% tops.

[On Balance]

Women’s athletic ability is generally about 10% worse than a man’s in you look at athletes in athletics.

The differential in tennis, football and cricket is massively bigger than that.

If Wimbledon was a women’s only event like Eastbourne the crowds wouldn’t even reach 50% of what they do each year, maybe 35% tops.

I’m not sure Eastbourne is a women’s only event these days. I’ll stand corrected if that is not the case.

The capacity at Eastbourne is around 8,000 I read, so even if it was a female only event I reckon it would be a sell out.

I get what you’re saying about the difference in strength. That was my point, of the training and dedication is there should they perhaps not be rewarded equally, all be it they are physically not as strong as their male counterparts.

[boingy]

I don’t see a problem with strength issues. Men are stronger. Womens tennis is very good though. The quality of Mens and womens tennis has shot up over the years.

[mickd1961]

I’m not sure Eastbourne is a women’s only event these days. I’ll stand corrected if that is not the case.

The capacity at Eastbourne is around 8,000 I read, so even if it was a female only event I reckon it would be a sell out.

I get what you’re saying about the difference in strength. That was my point, of the training and dedication is there should they perhaps not be rewarded equally, all be it they are physically not as strong as their male counterparts.

My point is about Wimbledon though, no way would you get anything like the usual attendance if it was women only.

Women’s tennis is like watching women’s football and cricket, it’s slow and ponderous in comparison.

I’ve tried but I just can’t get interested.

In athletics though, for some reason I find it as enjoyable and in swimming and Olympic type sports.

[animallittle3]

Females are not as physically strong as males, generally at least( I may get ripped appear t for that comment, but it is so. It is a fact). So if you ask females to play the best of five sets, it is likely that the standard of play will drop to an unacceptable level for it to be an interesting watch.

If females play for less time than males is it fair they fat the same pay. I wonder if they put in the same amount of effort to go through say three seats as a male does going through five sets, should they not be rewarded equally. Just a thought. Is there a wrong or right!

As a side note, I generally watch Wimbledon. However, the fact the club backtracked on permitting certain nationalities from playing, I could not be arsed as there is an element of hypocrisy.

Just to give you my background so as not to come across as one of those old gits who still lives in the 70's .

I was a trade union rep for 25 years fighting for my members , worked with management for years to keep the company efficient and profitable with realism very much in play , trade unions are not some left wing militant anti capitalist organisations that the media would have you believe .

If I'm the union man elected to represent Ladies Professional Tennis Players and they tell me they want the same money as the men then I've to convince management I've a credible case .

As Mick as alluded to the Ladies don't bring in the same revenue streams as the men , the ticket prices , the sponsorship and advertising revenue won't be equal to the men's tournaments .

Secondly the Ladies game is an inferior product compared to the men and sporting products are valued by tv , sponsorship and advertising companies on excellence and quality , they aren't valued by blokes such as myself and Mick they are valued by the sporting market .

In such a situation I'd be telling my Lady Professional Tennis Players there's nothing I can do that can justify your demands .

The only card they have is to play the gender equality card and use it to shame not only myself but the actual sporting market or anybody else who opposes them with " Male Chauvinist Pig " ringing in our ears .

To be fair it works , it works very well for them .

Doesn't alter the fact that they aren't worth the same money as men because the market tells us that .

[mickd1961]

Just to give you my background so as not to come across as one of those old gits who still lives in the 70's .

I was a trade union rep for 25 years fighting for my members , worked with management for years to keep the company efficient and profitable with realism very much in play , trade unions are not some left wing militant anti capitalist organisations that the media would have you believe .

If I'm the union man elected to represent Ladies Professional Tennis Players and they tell me they want the same money as the men then I've to convince management I've a credible case .

As Mick as alluded to the Ladies don't bring in the same revenue streams as the men , the ticket prices , the sponsorship and advertising revenue won't be equal to the men's tournaments .

Secondly the Ladies game is an inferior product compared to the men and sporting products are valued by tv , sponsorship and advertising companies on excellence and quality , they aren't valued by blokes such as myself and Mick they are valued by the sporting market .

In such a situation I'd be telling my Lady Professional Tennis Players there's nothing I can do that can justify your demands .

The only card they have is to play the gender equality card and use it to shame not only myself but the actual sporting market or anybody else who opposes them with " Male Chauvinist Pig " ringing in our ears .

To be fair it works , it works very well for them .

Doesn't alter the fact that they aren't worth the same money as men because the market tells us that .

One of the best posts I’ve ever read on here.

[baggieal]

Just to give you my background so as not to come across as one of those old gits who still lives in the 70's .

I was a trade union rep for 25 years fighting for my members , worked with management for years to keep the company efficient and profitable with realism very much in play , trade unions are not some left wing militant anti capitalist organisations that the media would have you believe .

If I'm the union man elected to represent Ladies Professional Tennis Players and they tell me they want the same money as the men then I've to convince management I've a credible case .

As Mick as alluded to the Ladies don't bring in the same revenue streams as the men , the ticket prices , the sponsorship and advertising revenue won't be equal to the men's tournaments .

Secondly the Ladies game is an inferior product compared to the men and sporting products are valued by tv , sponsorship and advertising companies on excellence and quality , they aren't valued by blokes such as myself and Mick they are valued by the sporting market .

In such a situation I'd be telling my Lady Professional Tennis Players there's nothing I can do that can justify your demands .

The only card they have is to play the gender equality card and use it to shame not only myself but the actual sporting market or anybody else who opposes them with " Male Chauvinist Pig " ringing in our ears .

To be fair it works , it works very well for them .

Doesn't alter the fact that they aren't worth the same money as men because the market tells us that .


Totally agree! I would have been cheated paying top dollar for the woman’s final - 2 sets - 90 minutes - very few worth while rallies. Now compare that to the men’s final which was full of quality, top tennis and five hours in length.

Absolutely no comparison!

[animallittle3]

Totally agree! I would have been cheated paying top dollar for the woman’s final - 2 sets - 90 minutes - very few worth while rallies. Now compare that to the men’s final which was full of quality, top tennis and five hours in length.

Absolutely no comparison!

This is why I said in an earlier post about the Ladies playing the first to three sets like the men do .

It wasn't just a cheap shot to attack the Ladies .

In almost every walk of life to earn the bigger bucks you have to increase the value of your product or increase levels of production if we agree that sports today are businesses .

There no actual evidence that the Ladies game has any of these values attached to them that pushes up the market price .

If the women who worked along side us on the shop floor when I was a trade union rep only had to work 25 hours and the men 40 but still got the same pay for the same job then that wouldn't be accepted just on the basis of gender .

Unless they are willing to train harder , improve the product and play the first to three sets only then are they entitled to equal prize money .

Don't get me wrong there's wriggle room because Ons Jabeur no matter how much she trains or practices isn't ever beating Djokovic .

But the point is the equal prize money thing is based on gender equality and nobody dare suggest these ladies might like to improve their product or play for longer giving the people who provide the extra money they have to stump up some increased value for it .

In no walk of life in the workplace , business or even the market itself does this exist .

[baggiematt]

I understand the argument of disparities of pay in womens football. The pay is technically equal as they get paid a proportion of the support/viewers they bring in, same as the men.

But tennis is totally immeasurable. They are part of the overall package of Wimbledon.

This nonsense of improving the product is odd. There is a limit to what a women can do in sport and it's not nearly to that of a man. There is no measure for testing what is the top of a womens game vs the top of a mans game. It's not comparing apples with apples.

You can use the same logic in all walks of life. Women probably can't handle laboured jobs as well as men; you can't rob them of pay as a result. There's questions around effort, but we've had some eras of rubbish mens tennis too without consequence!

That said, I do think women should support women sport more. You probably get more women watching mens football than you do women watching womens football.

[animallittle3]

I understand the argument of disparities of pay in womens football. The pay is technically equal as they get paid a proportion of the support/viewers they bring in, same as the men.

But tennis is totally immeasurable. They are part of the overall package of Wimbledon.

This nonsense of improving the product is odd. There is a limit to what a women can do in sport and it's not nearly to that of a man. There is no measure for testing what is the top of a womens game vs the top of a mans game. It's not comparing apples with apples.

You can use the same logic in all walks of life. Women probably can't handle laboured jobs as well as men; you can't rob them of pay as a result. There's questions around effort, but we've had some eras of rubbish mens tennis too without consequence!

That said, I do think women should support women sport more. You probably get more women watching mens football than you do women watching womens football.

But there is a measure for testing what is the top of the women's game and top of the men's .

The tv viewing figures for the Ladies singles final and the Mens which forms part of the tennis market as tv viewing figures push up the price the tv companies would pay to broadcast it .

I can't believe for one minute Saturday's Ladies singles final was watched by as many viewers as the men's .

[On Balance]

Just to give you my background so as not to come across as one of those old gits who still lives in the 70's .

I was a trade union rep for 25 years fighting for my members , worked with management for years to keep the company efficient and profitable with realism very much in play , trade unions are not some left wing militant anti capitalist organisations that the media would have you believe .

If I'm the union man elected to represent Ladies Professional Tennis Players and they tell me they want the same money as the men then I've to convince management I've a credible case .

As Mick as alluded to the Ladies don't bring in the same revenue streams as the men , the ticket prices , the sponsorship and advertising revenue won't be equal to the men's tournaments .

Secondly the Ladies game is an inferior product compared to the men and sporting products are valued by tv , sponsorship and advertising companies on excellence and quality , they aren't valued by blokes such as myself and Mick they are valued by the sporting market .

In such a situation I'd be telling my Lady Professional Tennis Players there's nothing I can do that can justify your demands .

The only card they have is to play the gender equality card and use it to shame not only myself but the actual sporting market or anybody else who opposes them with " Male Chauvinist Pig " ringing in our ears .

To be fair it works , it works very well for them .

Doesn't alter the fact that they aren't worth the same money as men because the market tells us that .

That’s a fair argument Animal. It’s nice to see someone put some meat on the bones to argue their side. I have to say your opinion makes it difficult to argue against. I have to be a little careful as I would not wish to upset any of the female employees I work with as they are a brilliant bunch and every bit as good as their male counterparts.

However, women’s sport is growing, take the Euro Final last year, Wembley was packed, a full house. We as a nation do not appreciate women’s sport enough perhaps. (I am as guilty as the next I’ll admit) To say it is boring and mundane is a little harsh.

A couple of years ago people were praising Emma Radacanu on her ability after winning the US Open. They had followed her progress and were saying how athletic and mature she was. So there was an interest there, sadly it hasn’t worked out for her and is unlikely to now.


I understand the argument of disparities of pay in womens football. The pay is technically equal as they get paid a proportion of the support/viewers they bring in, same as the men.

But tennis is totally immeasurable. They are part of the overall package of Wimbledon.

This nonsense of improving the product is odd. There is a limit to what a women can do in sport and it's not nearly to that of a man. There is no measure for testing what is the top of a womens game vs the top of a mans game. It's not comparing apples with apples.

You can use the same logic in all walks of life. Women probably can't handle laboured jobs as well as men; you can't rob them of pay as a result. There's questions around effort, but we've had some eras of rubbish mens tennis too without consequence!

That said, I do think women should support women sport more. You probably get more women watching mens football than you do women watching womens football.

The above point by Baggiematt is valid, where he states that all the men’s and women’s games are part of the package. All the Grandslams are, even some of the lesser competitions are now open to male and female competitors. Eastbourne, as mentioned previously, is for both male and female players. The whole thing is a mixed up competition, doubles, mixed doubles etc. imagine if there were no women at any of the Grandslams, they would be over in a few days or there would only be a few hours of tennis per day.

I think the female game does bring much to tennis. Without it the whole game would suffer. In my opinion of course.
There might be no right or wrong answer.