In for a hard season- defensive duties anyone?

[FromTheDarkness]

We lost the next England captain center back, we enter the prem and we dont have anyone with a bloody clue or leader at the back, we bought a big defensive midfielder that's playing as a center forward.. honestly wtf is going on with these tactics today?

Vinny said he out works every other manager, well Vinney you where well and truly out worked today... simple! stop our wingers and simply run though the middle as our big crap central midfielder is up the top on the back line. We had no plan B they read us like a book.
Vinney I am disappointed you where out worked by the opposition manager, welcome to the world class managers of the premiership.

We are fine going forward, good infact at passing and moving in and around the box.

As soon as we loose possession it is chaotic, players running about yet are miles off, bumping into each other yet not them, acres of space gifted to them so they can pick a pass, every goal was like this, the amount of times they tuned our players seems like they have been training with Tovial and Dean

Our midfield personal and tactic are way way off.
Berg - crap.. what's he in there to actually do? He is just a poor version of Brownhill, but Brownhill gets back and defends and puts pressure on the ball and gets his foot in, I fail to see this lads game..
Cullen, I dont get it.. ball player, thats all he offers - his passes are not that good...?

Pluses - Foster looks great, couldn't have done more with limited service - played well
- All the subs looked better than the first choices - mainly due to experience, for example Redmond gave the ball away twice, but then chased it down and forced their error, opposed to allowing them to tovail and dean us and create a chance with all the time in the world.

Of all the things we should be **** hot at - defending - gifted to much time on the ball, chaotic as if we didn't know who to mark, what runners to pick up.. it was terrible.

Credit to Villa, and Emry they put the homework in and had a game plan that worked.

[Deadlydave]

Darkness my friend I don't disagree. I don't think we can play 4-4-2 in this league. We need a holding midfielder to pick up the ball and to close down the long shots etc. It's really a joke. If we do not sort this out we will be down. Hardly an advert in the last week of the window to come join Burnley was it? It's too easy for the opposition and yes It won't do. We need some Dyche steel actually.

[FromTheDarkness]

How is Al Dakhil a better replacement for Taylor Harwood Belis?
How is Berge a better replacment for BrownHill?

removing THB from the team requires more effort and defensive cover from midfield.
removing Brownhill who last year played as a box to box, his work rate, tracking down allowed more time and space for Cullen in the middle. Berge doesnt play as a Box to box, he was playing as a number 10(I dont even understand his role)

so on the transition we have 1 less defensive player in the middle and a weaker center back, without a leader back there and a new keeper....we need more cover not less. Ontop we are now in the Premiership.. it blows my mind that Vinny thinks it will ever work...

[The Bedlington Terrier]

For 20 minutes in the second half we were the better team.

4-2-4 never works against a well drilled elite football team playing 5-3-2 with two quality full backs who can run riot.

In fairness VK changed his tactics and matched Villa up in the second half.

Reasons to be cheerful I think.

[lancaster100]

Well what a shambles, men against little lads. I do not think there is one player that can say they played even reasonable. Not sure if any director, management or player ever looks at this forum but many questions need to asked. We seem to have spent many millions on players who are no where near the level required. Looking at the so called spine of the team (Goalkeeper, centre back and centre forward) none were good enough. Trafford looked like a startled rabbit seems unable to come and collect when necessary, The middle defence was weak to embarrassing and up front we were powder puff with Amdouni having terrible body language and out of his depth. Keeper should be dropped, we should get Harwood Bellis asap (£15m is being quoted) and I do not know if we are able to find a striker who will run through brick walls - a bit like Andy Lochead (he was our last hard man up front. This game showed all our weaknesses and VK will have to be able to turn this poor application around or we are already doomed - VK said after City that would be the worst we would play this season but he was wrong. If this level is not improved then I cannot see us winning any game at this level.

[wmdave_b]

Too early to be so negative imho

[sinkov]

Didn't see the game, but I did see Sheff Utd against City, they look a good bet to stay up to me.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Didn't see the game, but I did see Sheff Utd against City, they look a good bet to stay up to me.

Our trouble mon ami is VK does not trust the players that got us back up.

I still think we will stay up but it was self evident that JBG and Jay Rod should be starting.

I must also assume Josh Brownhill was caught shagging VK's missus. His omission is unfathomable bollox otherwise.

[WillPark]

Early days…
I was also not able to see the match. But I agree BT that VK did not trust last years team, or did not think enough of them to secure the three best loan players. He clearly thinks he can build a strong team again this year with new young players. It was a big achievement last year in the championship. It will be a miracle to do it again this year!

[FromTheDarkness]

Our trouble mon ami is VK does not trust the players that got us back up.

I still think we will stay up but it was self evident that JBG and Jay Rod should be starting.

I must also assume Josh Brownhill was caught shagging VK's missus. His omission is unfathomable bollox otherwise.

yes whats going on with Brownhill? he was captain for many games last season, wasn't he player of the season?
this Berge fellow cant dance in his footsteps!

[sinkov]

yes whats going on with Brownhill? he was captain for many games last season, wasn't he player of the season?
this Berge fellow cant dance in his footsteps!

I've heard he won't sign a new contract or an extension, whether this has anything to do with it, or even if it's true, I have no idea.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

yes whats going on with Brownhill? he was captain for many games last season, wasn't he player of the season?
this Berge fellow cant dance in his footsteps!

I have hinted across several posts he must have shagged VK's missus because otherwise the lad is just about my first name on the team sheet. :mad:

[lancaster100]

I have to say that the body language of Amdouni was shameful. he was uninerested, walking about shoulders drooped etc showed no signs of getting into the game, playing in a forwaRd role but hardly ever came over the half way line - I hope he improves if not swap him for Weghorst that how bad he was. Roberts every inch as bad he jibbed out of a number of challenges, 50/50's. For some reason he changed sides in the second half but improvements did not occur. Trafford is incapable of coming and claiming the ball when that is clearly necessary, from what I have seen he lacks maturity and bravery, so that is 3 players that should be considered for the chop. Additionally I thought Cullen worked hard but seemed a little overawed and had minimal impact why Brownhill was not in is baffling. Now we seem to be pressing the panic button by looking at a 6' 92 centre back and yet another winger.

[WillPark]

Was it not Cullen who was player of the season?

[army88]

I have to say that the body language of Amdouni was shameful. he was uninerested, walking about shoulders drooped etc showed no signs of getting into the game, playing in a forwaRd role but hardly ever came over the half way line - I hope he improves if not swap him for Weghorst that how bad he was. Roberts every inch as bad he jibbed out of a number of challenges, 50/50's. For some reason he changed sides in the second half but improvements did not occur. Trafford is incapable of coming and claiming the ball when that is clearly necessary, from what I have seen he lacks maturity and bravery, so that is 3 players that should be considered for the chop. Additionally I thought Cullen worked hard but seemed a little overawed and had minimal impact why Brownhill was not in is baffling. Now we seem to be pressing the panic button by looking at a 6' 92 centre back and yet another winger.

To be fair to Amdouni Lancaster he made run after run after run early on and we never once gave him the ball , instead we had no *******s and played sideways football for fear of cocking it up.
It’s a culture shock to us because we’re so used to having possession for big chunks of games and now it’s different in the big boys league.

I also think if you watch it back Amdouni did an awful lot of covering for our midfield - I posted on another thread that sadly Berg is a yard and half off the pace and I’m not sure with the press and way we play will make it at this level.

Men and boys was used in a description before and I think quite apt really, I’d play Ekdal in front of the centre backs from Saturday but we should have bought THB.

Said on another thread the press is our issue as much as anything , personnel aren’t quick enough once opposition break it - it’s not all bad but if some on here think JBG is the answer we really are in trouble.

To be fair to VK we need to back him and give him a chance to build and gel the squad , some will go this week I think and then we’ll know where we stand.

[FromTheDarkness]

To be fair to Amdouni Lancaster he made run after run after run early on and we never once gave him the ball , instead we had no *******s and played sideways football for fear of cocking it up.
It’s a culture shock to us because we’re so used to having possession for big chunks of games and now it’s different in the big boys league.

I also think if you watch it back Amdouni did an awful lot of covering for our midfield - I posted on another thread that sadly Berg is a yard and half off the pace and I’m not sure with the press and way we play will make it at this level.

Men and boys was used in a description before and I think quite apt really, I’d play Ekdal in front of the centre backs from Saturday but we should have bought THB.

Said on another thread the press is our issue as much as anything , personnel aren’t quick enough once opposition break it - it’s not all bad but if some on here think JBG is the answer we really are in trouble.

To be fair to VK we need to back him and give him a chance to build and gel the squad , some will go this week I think and then we’ll know where we stand.

agreed with all you said. My concerns are we need points on the board.. we aint getting anything against spurs. Before you know it we will have lost 4 in a row and these young lads confidence is shot. We cant afford to build as we go, we need points and especially points at home. Vinney needs to have another way, Dyche would have got a point against Villa at home. I am a Vinney fan, I really want us to play the way he envisions. But every game is hard Shef Utd is the easy game of the season, the ones who where unlucky against City and beat us 5:0... Notts Forrest should have beat Utd, Fulham should have beat Arsenal.. where are the points comming from?

[sinkov]

While the Villa performance was a bit of a shocker, the previous game against City gave me encouragement for the season, a couple of opportunist goals for Legolas apart, they rarely troubled us, and we looked capable of holding our own at this level. So I'm going to park the Villa game as a one off, too bad to be true performance, and keep the faith.

[Supersub6]

While the Villa performance was a bit of a shocker, the previous game against City gave me encouragement for the season, a couple of opportunist goals for Legolas apart, they rarely troubled us, and we looked capable of holding our own at this level. So I'm going to park the Villa game as a one off, too bad to be true performance, and keep the faith.

Strange how fans are questioning the ability of a manager who has lost just 7 competitive games out of a total of 56 and is in the process of getting a team to 'gel' with the inclusion of many new players. Think Sir Alex a number of years ago ---just keep the faith and be patient.

[lancaster100]

One oif the massive differences between us and City and Villa is the size and physicality and it is clear the players are feared to takle or challenge.

[sinkov]

One oif the massive differences between us and City and Villa is the size and physicality and it is clear the players are feared to takle or challenge.

It does seem to be something Vinni is aware of Lancaster, he said last week one of the reasons he was signing Delcroix was because of his physicality.

[lancaster100]

Will you are right but the word was is the operative word, last year has gone and we are in the now hence why I thought he was overawed.

[lancaster100]

Sinkov you are absolutely right surely VK should have known the difference in physicality. IMO VK should have bought better quality spent the same but not sign the number of players that have come in.

[FromTheDarkness]

Strange how fans are questioning the ability of a manager who has lost just 7 competitive games out of a total of 56 and is in the process of getting a team to 'gel' with the inclusion of many new players. Think Sir Alex a number of years ago ---just keep the faith and be patient.

And on the other hand, the manager is in the second season so his style of play should be instilled in the squad. He has chosen to sign the players he has, this is his squad after 2 seasons recruiting. we are still chasing further attacking players in the transfer market, His choice.
I see a huge gap left by Taylor, and another huge gap by not playing Brownhill... Berge was the answer, his choice. So you can defend Vinny until the cows come home, but welcome to reality. His choices will be questioned it comes with the territory he got plenty of accolades last year which he deserved, now he will get judged against premier league quality and expectations. thats the game

[Supersub6]

And on the other hand, the manager is in the second season so his style of play should be instilled in the squad. He has chosen to sign the players he has, this is his squad after 2 seasons recruiting. we are still chasing further attacking players in the transfer market, His choice.
I see a huge gap left by Taylor, and another huge gap by not playing Brownhill... Berge was the answer, his choice. So you can defend Vinny until the cows come home, but welcome to reality. His choices will be questioned it comes with the territory he got plenty of accolades last year which he deserved, now he will get judged against premier league quality and expectations. thats the game

Yes he will, however, not after just two games ---come back again after another 17 games when we are halfway through the season and it would be a much fairer assessment.
Footnote:- Just be grateful that you are not supporting Leeds tonight. 71% possession and 33 shots and draw 1-1 only to lose on penalties. Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

[kritichris]

If VK wants physicality (is that a word?) why did he let go of Bash?