Is freezing Council tax fair to

[BCram]

the lowest bands of Council tax payers? I was very surprised at this rabbit out of the hat announcement. All the talk before had been about significant increases for Band D and above property owners.

I am very suspicious of this announcement. Have our local councils given Holyrood totals of the amount of council tax that would be raised under the original proposals? Is that figure going to be given to councils as part of their block grant?

Will there be significant increases in business rates?

This whole approach from Humza sounds very dodgy and I hope that local government will stand up for their constituents.

I watched an Aljazeera programme recently about democracy in the Middle East. The dictators like Saddam and Gaddafi were corrupt and surrounded themselves with people who were bribed with fabulous wealth to ensure that the dictatorship controlled the population.

Democracy was sold to these populations by the West, as a fairer way to run a country and they would be much better off if they changed to a democratic approach to running their countries.

It didn't work at all and new or perhaps even the same corrupt rich people carried on as before and the same poor people suffered.

Along comes religion and new leaders who make the same promises of a better world but this time the problem is a foreign power or different religion.

[The AuldYin]

I'd love to know where the moneys coming from? Where's it being diverted from? Who or what is going to have to go without?

[BCram]

That's a good point. Local councillors must not be bullied. My initial post, apologies got carried away with the Israel stuff, but the bullying ethos which simply negates any democratic process is absolutely rife with the Greens and SNP acting like dictators. Don't believe Humza has got the money to finance the council tax freeze. My bet is that he is hoping local councillors suck it up and accept whatever he offers.

[The AuldYin]

I think he's already said it will be funded by central government. Councils absolutely can't take the hit on it, the erse is hanging out their breeks as it is. The SNP/Greens do have a terrible you will do attitude, Sturgeon was by far the worse but time will tell if Yusaf will tone it down a bit, they did get their pants pulled down a bit with that bottle scheme and the cocks in frocks debacle but apart from that they're pretty bullet proof.

[islaydarkblue]

the lowest bands of Council tax payers? I was very surprised at this rabbit out of the hat announcement. All the talk before had been about significant increases for Band D and above property owners.

I am very suspicious of this announcement. Have our local councils given Holyrood totals of the amount of council tax that would be raised under the original proposals? Is that figure going to be given to councils as part of their block grant?

Will there be significant increases in business rates?

This whole approach from Humza sounds very dodgy and I hope that local government will stand up for their constituents.

I watched an Aljazeera programme recently about democracy in the Middle East. The dictators like Saddam and Gaddafi were corrupt and surrounded themselves with people who were bribed with fabulous wealth to ensure that the dictatorship controlled the population.

Democracy was sold to these populations by the West, as a fairer way to run a country and they would be much better off if they changed to a democratic approach to running their countries.

It didn't work at all and new or perhaps even the same corrupt rich people carried on as before and the same poor people suffered.

Along comes religion and new leaders who make the same promises of a better world but this time the problem is a foreign power or different religion.
In my opinion the freezing of the council tax bands next year is a General Election bribe by the SNP who are running scared after they lost their Ritherglen seat in the recent by election which resulted in a thumping majority for the Labour Party candidate.
Humza knows that if this swing to Labour is replicated at the next General Election the SNP will lose a lot of their current MPs.

[islaydarkblue]

I'd love to know where the moneys coming from? Where's it being diverted from? Who or what is going to have to go without?
It has been reported that in recent financial years the Scottish Government has had underspends at the end of each financial year.
Nicola Sturgeon previously diverted millions of pounds of taxpayers money to set up a Scottish Government department dealing solely with independence.
I understand that this department has been quietly disbanded.
I suspect that Humza has not worked out the full cost of his council tax freeze but that does not matter to him as he needed something to rally his troops at their conference last Tuesday in Aberdeen.
The Greens do not matter as they only put up a handful of candidates in a General Election.

[islaydarkblue]

I think he's already said it will be funded by central government. Councils absolutely can't take the hit on it, the erse is hanging out their breeks as it is. The SNP/Greens do have a terrible you will do attitude, Sturgeon was by far the worse but time will tell if Yusaf will tone it down a bit, they did get their pants pulled down a bit with that bottle scheme and the cocks in frocks debacle but apart from that they're pretty bullet proof.
The Scottish Government recently managed to miraculously find millions of pounds to increase the pay offer to local authority teachers.
In my opinion the local authorities throughout Scotland employ too many bosses being paid fancy salaries who are not fit for the job and they should be handed their P45s.
That would save a lot of money.
There are also too many local authority councillors who are only interested in their constituents when there are local authority elections coming up. The rest of the time they do not answer emails as their constituents are an irrelevance.

[islaydarkblue]

That's a good point. Local councillors must not be bullied. My initial post, apologies got carried away with the Israel stuff, but the bullying ethos which simply negates any democratic process is absolutely rife with the Greens and SNP acting like dictators. Don't believe Humza has got the money to finance the council tax freeze. My bet is that he is hoping local councillors suck it up and accept whatever he offers.
This is not the first time that a Scottish Government minister has made an announcement at an SNP annual conference in Aberdeen without doing their homework.
Derek MacKay the Scottish Government Cabinet Secretary for Finance announced at SNP annual conference in Aberdeen in October 2015 that the Scottish Government had just awarded the contract to build two new ferries for Calmac to Ferguson Shipyard at a cost of £97 million.
Derek MacKay and his Scottish Government civil servants had not done their homework as they awarded the contract without ensuring that Ferguson Shipyard had provided the necessary financial requirements and guarantees which other shipyards tendering for the same contract had provided.

[BCram]

This is not the first time that a Scottish Government minister has made an announcement at an SNP annual conference in Aberdeen without doing their homework.
Derek MacKay the Scottish Government Cabinet Secretary for Finance announced at SNP annual conference in Aberdeen in October 2015 that the Scottish Government had just awarded the contract to build two new ferries for Calmac to Ferguson Shipyard at a cost of £97 million.
Derek MacKay and his Scottish Government civil servants had not done their homework as they awarded the contract without ensuring that Ferguson Shipyard had provided the necessary financial requirements and guarantees which other shipyards tendering for the same contract had provided.

If you take this thread down the ferries route, I will be cross. ��

[Deeranged]

If you take this thread down the ferries route, I will be cross. ��

To be fair it was always going to happen - the man's obsessed with it

[BCram]

To be fair it was always going to happen - the man's obsessed with it

But he is capable of choosing what he wants to say. There are many questions about budgets and how local government is "controlled" by central government. Maybe there are websites that show how much money is actually spent by local councils and how it changes from year to year. I think if we compared cash spent at the end of each financial year, like the accounts that companies prepare we might find things easier to understand?

[islaydarkblue]

If you take this thread down the ferries route, I will be cross. ��
I have no plans to do that.
I was just showing that a previous Scottish Government minister has previously made a ill thought out similar announcement at an SNP annual conference to keep their members sweet.

[islaydarkblue]

But he is capable of choosing what he wants to say. There are many questions about budgets and how local government is "controlled" by central government. Maybe there are websites that show how much money is actually spent by local councils and how it changes from year to year. I think if we compared cash spent at the end of each financial year, like the accounts that companies prepare we might find things easier to understand?
Local authorities throughout Scotland have lots of funds squirrelled away containing millions of pounds.
The only way that you can obtain details of their funds is to submit a freedom of information request to Dundee City Council asking for details of the balance if each of their funds at 31st March 2023.
About ten years ago I submitted a request to Argyll and Bute Council when their councillors were pleading poverty asking what the balance of their accounts were at 31st March which is the end of their financial year.
From memory their general fund had a balance in excess of £18 million at the end of their financial year.
For the record the Scottish Government via the Barnett Formula hands over 87% of funding to each local authority with the remainder coming from council tax, business rates and other income such as green fees paid to local authority golf courses, putting greens and charges for planning applications etc.

[Deeranged]

I have no plans to do that.
I was just showing that a previous Scottish Government minister has previously made a ill thought out similar announcement at an SNP annual conference to keep their members sweet.

What did you make of your Tory pal Sunak making promises to scrap policies that the Tories had never even thought about implementing before he 'scrapped' them? Meat tax? Seven bins? That speech was well thought out wasn't it? Or was it just lies hoping to con the gullible voter again and to keep Tory voters on his side? Give them something back that you never actually took from them or intended taking from them.

All politicians lie, regardless of party leanings, they have to because if they told us what they really planned we'd never vote for them - that's why we're now lumbered with an entirely incompetent UK Government, with an entirely incompetent Scottish Parliament and with complete incompetents running our Councils. They all had to lie to convince the gullible that they knew what they were doing.

Don't point fingers at one party without at least recognising that other parties also do the same.

[BCram]

What did you make of your Tory pal Sunak making promises to scrap policies that the Tories had never even thought about implementing before he 'scrapped' them? Meat tax? Seven bins? That speech was well thought out wasn't it? Or was it just lies hoping to con the gullible voter again and to keep Tory voters on his side? Give them something back that you never actually took from them or intended taking from them.

All politicians lie, regardless of party leanings, they have to because if they told us what they really planned we'd never vote for them - that's why we're now lumbered with an entirely incompetent UK Government, with an entirely incompetent Scottish Parliament and with complete incompetents running our Councils. They all had to lie to convince the gullible that they knew what they were doing.

Don't point fingers at one party without at least recognising that other parties also do the same.

I agree. The problem is how do you get people who wield power to act in accordance with some moral code? There is perhaps a political influence on civil servants and local government officers that distorts their thinking and actions. Maybe the voters will change their voting pattern but I don't think that will change this basic flaw, where actions are taken for self serving political reasons rather than in the interests of good government.

[islaydarkblue]

I agree. The problem is how do you get people who wield power to act in accordance with some moral code? There is perhaps a political influence on civil servants and local government officers that distorts their thinking and actions. Maybe the voters will change their voting pattern but I don't think that will change this basic flaw, where actions are taken for self serving political reasons rather than in the interests of good government.
In my opinion all local authority councillors should be standing as Independents and not representing a political party.
Then they would have to vote in favour of policies which were best for their own constituents and not vote on party lines which happens at present.

[islaydarkblue]

What did you make of your Tory pal Sunak making promises to scrap policies that the Tories had never even thought about implementing before he 'scrapped' them? Meat tax? Seven bins? That speech was well thought out wasn't it? Or was it just lies hoping to con the gullible voter again and to keep Tory voters on his side? Give them something back that you never actually took from them or intended taking from them.

All politicians lie, regardless of party leanings, they have to because if they told us what they really planned we'd never vote for them - that's why we're now lumbered with an entirely incompetent UK Government, with an entirely incompetent Scottish Parliament and with complete incompetents running our Councils. They all had to lie to convince the gullible that they knew what they were doing.

Don't point fingers at one party without at least recognising that other parties also do the same.
The SNP are in power at Holyrood now aided by the useless Greens.
In my opinion the only way that we can get rid of the SNP Government is to vote tactically.
The political party which was in second place behind the SNP the previous General Election and Scottish Government election should stand against the SNP at the next General Election and Scottish Government elections with all the other political parties not putting up a candidate.
EG. If the Labour candidate was second to Chris Law in the Dundee West constituency at the last General Election then the Labour candidate would go ‘head to head’ against Chris Law with the Conservative and Lib Dems not putting forward a candidate in the Dundee West constituency.
At present the Better Together vote is split between the Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem candidates whilst the Independence vote goes to the SNP candidate.
That is why we are currently stuck with all these SNP MPs and MSPs.

[Deeranged]

The SNP are in power at Holyrood now aided by the useless Greens.
In my opinion the only way that we can get rid of the SNP Government is to vote tactically.
The political party which was in second place behind the SNP the previous General Election and Scottish Government election should stand against the SNP at the next General Election and Scottish Government elections with all the other political parties not putting up a candidate.
EG. If the Labour candidate was second to Chris Law in the Dundee West constituency at the last General Election then the Labour candidate would go ‘head to head’ against Chris Law with the Conservative and Lib Dems not putting forward a candidate in the Dundee West constituency.
At present the Better Together vote is split between the Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem candidates whilst the Independence vote goes to the SNP candidate.
That is why we are currently stuck with all these SNP MPs and MSPs.

But opposition parties declining to stand is completely different from tactical voting.

Labour has just massively turned over two big Tory majorities in Mid Bedfordshire and Tamworth so I can see no reason why Labour would, or should, decline to have a candidate stand in any constituency where the Tories are second to the SNP - as things are going Labour would have a very good chance of passing both of them and taking the seat.

The very best thing that could happen right now in Scotland is that the Blue Tories could take all candidates out of all Scottish seats and leave it as a (more or less) straight battle between the SNP and the Red Tories (Labour). Because of the mess the SNP has made of Scotland, and because we all now know they're corrupt to the core, I reckon Labour would easily win a majority. The risk is though that if the Labour majority wasn't big enough they'd likely also take up with The Greens to create another waste of a parliament.

[islaydarkblue]

But opposition parties declining to stand is completely different from tactical voting.

Labour has just massively turned over two big Tory majorities in Mid Bedfordshire and Tamworth so I can see no reason why Labour would, or should, decline to have a candidate stand in any constituency where the Tories are second to the SNP - as things are going Labour would have a very good chance of passing both of them and taking the seat.

The very best thing that could happen right now in Scotland is that the Blue Tories could take all candidates out of all Scottish seats and leave it as a (more or less) straight battle between the SNP and the Red Tories (Labour). Because of the mess the SNP has made of Scotland, and because we all now know they're corrupt to the core, I reckon Labour would easily win a majority. The risk is though that if the Labour majority wasn't big enough they'd likely also take up with The Greens to create another waste of a parliament.
You should know by now that the electorate use by elections to register their protest vote at the way the country is being run by the party in power whether it is the Conservative Party or the Labour Party.
However when it comes to the General Election the electorate vote for their normal first choice political party candidate.

[Deeranged]

You should know by now that the electorate use by elections to register their protest vote at the way the country is being run by the party in power whether it is the Conservative Party or the Labour Party.
However when it comes to the General Election the electorate vote for their normal first choice political party candidate.

This feels different Islay. I really feel a lot of Tory voters realise how badly they were conned by allowing Johnston in at the last General Election just as SNP voters, myself included, realise how badly we were conned.

I've already said the SNP will never get another vote from me and wouldn't be surprised if a very good number of Tory voters down south are saying similar. Only problem now is deciding which of the alternatives is the least bad one.

[BCram]

How do you get over the situation where MSM, the civil service Blob and that political parties are only worried about their power.

[Deeranged]

How do you get over the situation where MSM, the civil service Blob and that political parties are only worried about their power.

If we knew the answer to that we might be able to make some progress

[BCram]

If we knew the answer to that we might be able to make some progress
For me the way forward is to get politicians actually in charge of public utilities. Thatcher's privatisation programme was an attempt to kick start investment and improve performance by bringing in capitalist inspired efficiency. I think it worked for a while but the market based philosophy has been disrupted by greed and monopolistic power being abused.
Think we should try to bring back some social ownership.

[Deeranged]

For me the way forward is to get politicians actually in charge of public utilities. Thatcher's privatisation programme was an attempt to kick start investment and improve performance by bringing in capitalist inspired efficiency. I think it worked for a while but the market based philosophy has been disrupted by greed and monopolistic power being abused.
Think we should try to bring back some social ownership.

Re-nationalise?

How are the ferries (sorry) doing under the SNP? I suppose some kind of hybrid where public money can be placed into the hands of private enterprise responsible for the proper running of services and directly answering to government - but wait, did they not do something like during Covid?

[islaydarkblue]

For me the way forward is to get politicians actually in charge of public utilities. Thatcher's privatisation programme was an attempt to kick start investment and improve performance by bringing in capitalist inspired efficiency. I think it worked for a while but the market based philosophy has been disrupted by greed and monopolistic power being abused.
Think we should try to bring back some social ownership.
In my opinion politicians are the last people that you want to put in charge of public utilities or anything else for that matter.
Most of them do not have a clue how to run anything as they are advised by their special advisers and top civil servants what to say.
My MSP Jenni Minto has office staff paid by the Scottish taxpayers to carry out investigate complaints and concerns raised by her constituents.

[islaydarkblue]

Re-nationalise?

How are the ferries (sorry) doing under the SNP? I suppose some kind of hybrid where public money can be placed into the hands of private enterprise responsible for the proper running of services and directly answering to government - but wait, did they not do something like during Covid?
In reply to your question. The Scottish Government owned operating company Calmac Ferries Limited are a total shambles.
However you never hear any problems with the Northlink ferries as their operating company is Serco which is a Public Limited Company also known as a PLC.

[BCram]

Agree with the difficulty in finding a way to deliver public services efficiently. The profit motive does not seem to work. As you point out the covid procurement process seems to have been totally corrupt so any repetition of that seems unlikely to work. Somehow tax must be reformed. Bernie Eccleston showed that not paying tax is a seriously effective way to keep money. If there was no tax avoidance the people who would suffer would be the super rich and those who they employ. There was a time after the Thatcher reforms where the whole of the country spent more on services than they raised in taxes apart from the City of London. They got the benefit of the profits made by the companies who operated in the North Sea and the profits made by the water companies and the power generating companies.

[BCram]

In reply to your question. The Scottish Government owned operating company Calmac Ferries Limited are a total shambles.
However you never hear any problems with the Northlink ferries as their operating company is Serco which is a Public Limited Company also known as a PLC.

Could that be because you live in zuslay not for example Orkney? 😄

[islaydarkblue]

Could that be because you live in zuslay not for example Orkney? ��
There has been no mention about problems with the Northlink ferries on MSN in Scotland but there as been plenty of debate on MSN in Scotland about the ‘clapped out’ Scottish Government owned ferries operated by Scottish Government owned Calmac Ferries Limited continually breaking down and bong withdrawn from service.
Yesterday and this morning there have been no sailings on the Oban to Craignure on the Isle of Mull route because the MV Loch Frisia ferry is stranded at Craignure pier as it has only one working engine. You might know this ferry route. The second and main ferry on this route the MV Isle of Mull cannot sail on the Oban to Craignure route until the MV Loch Frisia which is a new ferry by Calmac standards is able to depart from Craignure pier.
Sorry about slightly changing the subject but another poster mentioned Calmac ferries.

[Deeranged]

There has been no mention about problems with the Northlink ferries on MSN in Scotland but there as been plenty of debate on MSN in Scotland about the ‘clapped out’ Scottish Government owned ferries operated by Scottish Government owned Calmac Ferries Limited continually breaking down and bong withdrawn from service.
Yesterday and this morning there have been no sailings on the Oban to Craignure on the Isle of Mull route because the MV Loch Frisia ferry is stranded at Craignure pier as it has only one working engine. You might know this ferry route. The second and main ferry on this route the MV Isle of Mull cannot sail on the Oban to Craignure route until the MV Loch Frisia which is a new ferry by Calmac standards is able to depart from Craignure pier.
Sorry about slightly changing the subject but another poster mentioned Calmac ferries.

Are you sure the reason for the MV Loch Frisia being stranded in a berth at Craignure is that has only one engine? Surely it can steam, or limp, to a safe haven on one engine or at a push can be towed? I just find that a strange reason to say a boat can't steam.

On another note when I was planning a journey to Mull around three years ago I was strongly advised not to go from Oban to Craignure as it was notorious for being cancelled. I went from Lochaline to Fishnish instead, although that's also CalMac but more dependable.

[islaydarkblue]

Are you sure the reason for the MV Loch Frisia being stranded in a berth at Craignure is that has only one engine? Surely it can steam, or limp, to a safe haven on one engine or at a push can be towed? I just find that a strange reason to say a boat can't steam.

On another note when I was planning a journey to Mull around three years ago I was strongly advised not to go from Oban to Craignure as it was notorious for being cancelled. I went from Lochaline to Fishnish instead, although that's also CalMac but more dependable.
I enclose the latest update from the Calmac ferries website regarding the MV Loch Frisa. https://www.calmac.co.uk/service-status?route=11

[parcbara]

Whilst I am no fan of the present UK government, the Scottish administration are a complete shambles. Sturgeon the failure was an an actress, completely warped by her own ego, but the current incumbent is an absolute imbecile. Possibly even more astonishing is that he saw fit to entrust Scotland's financial well being in the hands of the career failure that is Shona Robison, who much to my disgust is the MSP for my area.

[noahrab]

Whilst I am no fan of the present UK government, the Scottish administration are a complete shambles. Sturgeon the failure was an an actress, completely warped by her own ego, but the current incumbent is an absolute imbecile. Possibly even more astonishing is that he saw fit to entrust Scotland's financial well being in the hands of the career failure that is Shona Robison, who much to my disgust is the MSP for my area.

The cult will still vote for them though.

[Dee_Dee]

Can stand the way “nationalised” has become a dirty word. Most of the best railways in Europe are.

[The AuldYin]

And go back to the dark days of the 70's? Nah I'll give that a miss.

[BCram]

And go back to the dark days of the 70's? Nah I'll give that a miss.

But is there a different way. Must the 1970's return?

[islaydarkblue]

But is there a different way. Must the 1970's return?
I can see no different way to the 1970’s if we return to nationalised industries which were badly run.
You just need to look at the Scottish Government owned businesses such as CMAL to see what a shambles they are with the CMAL management not speaking to the Transport Scotland management.

[The AuldYin]

But is there a different way. Must the 1970's return?

Aye of course there's a different way, how it's achieved ? No idea. I personally think state ownership now would be worse than the 70's, the track record North of the border especially in the last 15 years has been to say the least poor. Everything from building hospitals and ferries to tram lines and public transport.I think the reason it would get worse is people's sense of entitlement now is far higher than it was in the 70s.
One thing I would insist on if asked to vote on state ownership would be responsibilities, it happens in the private sector, Slater should have walked for the plastic bottle fiasco and God knows how many for the ferry building.

[parcbara]

Aye of course there's a different way, how it's achieved ? No idea. I personally think state ownership now would be worse than the 70's, the track record North of the border especially in the last 15 years has been to say the least poor. Everything from building hospitals and ferries to tram lines and public transport.I think the reason it would get worse is people's sense of entitlement now is far higher than it was in the 70s.
One thing I would insist on if asked to vote on state ownership would be responsibilities, it happens in the private sector, Slater should have walked for the plastic bottle fiasco and God knows how many for the ferry building.

Absolutely. Allowing this current administration to manage anything would be an absolute disaster. Slater, Robison, Yousaf all disasters in their portfolio areas. Fitzpatrick during covid. Couldn't even read something from a piece of paper. Two of the afore-mentioned, embarrassingly, represent Dundee.

[islaydarkblue]

Absolutely. Allowing this current administration to manage anything would be an absolute disaster. Slater, Robison, Yousaf all disasters in their portfolio areas. Fitzpatrick during covid. Couldn't even read something from a piece of paper. Two of the afore-mentioned, embarrassingly, represent Dundee.
I totally agree with everything you have posted.
One of the biggest problems with the current SNP and Green MSPs is that they have had no previous experience of being local authority councillors before they stood for election as MSPs.
Jenni Minto the SNP MSP for Argyll and Bute who is now the Scottish Government Public Health minister was an Islay Community Councillor prior to being selected to stand as the SNP candidate in the last Scottish Government elections.
She was hopeless as an Islay Community Councillor (ICC) as she only attended ICC meetings when there was something in it for her.
She is also a friend of Brendan O’Hara the SNP MP for Argyll and Bute hence her meteoric rise to fame.

[islaydarkblue]

Absolutely. Allowing this current administration to manage anything would be an absolute disaster. Slater, Robison, Yousaf all disasters in their portfolio areas. Fitzpatrick during covid. Couldn't even read something from a piece of paper. Two of the afore-mentioned, embarrassingly, represent Dundee.
There is a well known saying that people are promoted to their level of incompetence which certainly fits the bill for the above mentioned useless MSPs.

[Deeranged]

There is a well known saying that people are promoted to their level of incompetence which certainly fits the bill for the above mentioned useless MSPs.

The Peter Principle, seen it many times.

[islaydarkblue]

The Peter Principle, seen it many times.
Sadly two wrongs does not make a right.

[BCram]

I think that politicians of all persuasions are being found out. Eventually turkeys come home to roost. SNP might still retain power through a mixture of Green second votes by those who will remain loyal to SNP

[noahrab]

I think that politicians of all persuasions are being found out. Eventually turkeys come home to roost. SNP might still retain power through a mixture of Green second votes by those who will remain loyal to SNP

Cults (sp)

[islaydarkblue]

I think that politicians of all persuasions are being found out. Eventually turkeys come home to roost. SNP might still retain power through a mixture of Green second votes by those who will remain loyal to SNP
That is why Yousef is handing out money to ‘all and sundry’ including a Council tax freeze next year as he is trying to bribe the voters into voting SNP at the next General Election despite having not previously worked out the cost of this funding and where the money was coming from to pay for the cost of all these handouts.

[BCram]

Is there any "set of accounts" for the Scottish Parliament.
simple stuff
Income from Westminster £2, income from local taxes £2, income from Investments £0.05=Total Income £4.05

Expenditure, Fire Service £0.01 Local Government £0.01, Health Service £0.02, Transport £0.01, Politicians etc £5 = Total Expenditure £5.05

Deficit For Year £1

they manage to show council tax expenditure in a fairly straightforward way so why not do something similar for Holyrood. Needs to be created by the politicians so that they can be held accountable and not suffer the fate of GERS which is the start of an argument.

[noahrab]

Is there any "set of accounts" for the Scottish Parliament.
simple stuff
Income from Westminster £2, income from local taxes £2, income from Investments £0.05=Total Income £4.05

Expenditure, Fire Service £0.01 Local Government £0.01, Health Service £0.02, Transport £0.01, Politicians etc £5 = Total Expenditure £5.05

Deficit For Year £1

they manage to show council tax expenditure in a fairly straightforward way so why not do something similar for Holyrood. Needs to be created by the politicians so that they can be held accountable and not suffer the fate of GERS which is the start of an argument.

We’ve been waiting since before the referendum for an economic case….still waiting.

GERS is the closest you’ll get and is considered the ‘gold standard’ by the executive…but will only tell you that if it shows a surplus.

[islaydarkblue]

[QUOTE=noahrab;40376364]We’ve been waiting since before the referendum for an economic case….still waiting.

GERS is the closest you’ll get and is considered the ‘gold standard’ by the executive…but will only tell you that if it shows a surplus.[/QUOTE
The GERS figures for Scotland are aptly named as they are similar to the financial figures when Craig Whyte was in charge of running Glasgow Rangers.
The Scottish Government would be bankrupt if it did not have the income from the Barnett Formula as the GERS figures year after year prove that the Scottish Government spends a lot more than it would have if all taxes in Scotland were sent to Holyrood instead of going to the U.K. Treasury at Westminster

[BCram]

Was hoping to keep topic away from words like Barnett and formula. Much prefer Noah's approach. Simple economic case with numbers that everyone can understand.
Freezing of tax free pay is having a massive effect on the amount collected via income tax. Supposed to be £8bn per year but now predicted to be £75bn by the time the freeze is reviewed. Policy introduced by hated Tories. How about SNP uprating allowance thresholds?

[islaydarkblue]

Was hoping to keep topic away from words like Barnett and formula. Much prefer Noah's approach. Simple economic case with numbers that everyone can understand.
Freezing of tax free pay is having a massive effect on the amount collected via income tax. Supposed to be £8bn per year but now predicted to be £75bn by the time the freeze is reviewed. Policy introduced by hated Tories. How about SNP uprating allowance thresholds?
In my opinion if the SNP had their way they would reduce the allowance thresholds because they are not interested in people trying to better themselves who they are determined to fleece to pay for for all their ‘tinpot’ plans.

[The AuldYin]

At first I thought devolved powers in the late 90's were the obvious way forward for Scotland and the possibility of eventual independence and for a while under Labour it seemed to work but then the SNP nationalists got in and it very soon starting going tits up. For me it started with the release of the Lockerbie bomber only 2 years after the SNP came to power, a decision clearly taken to stick 2 fingers up to the Yanks and Westminster. The shocking thing for me then and still is, is the power the SNP has to simply change laws without passing any scrutiny at all, no vote, no house of lords, nothing. The recent legalising of drugs without passing any form of vote especially given the fact that their own MP's or MSP's can't vote against them is unacceptable. Westminster has reined them in once or twice but the legalising of drugs is far bigger a deal than the plastic bottles fiasco, the ferries and the cocks in frocks put together. Dorothy Bain should never have the power to change laws under orders of the SNP of her own back.

[Deeranged]

At first I thought devolved powers in the late 90's were the obvious way forward for Scotland and the possibility of eventual independence and for a while under Labour it seemed to work but then the SNP nationalists got in and it very soon starting going tits up. For me it started with the release of the Lockerbie bomber only 2 years after the SNP came to power, a decision clearly taken to stick 2 fingers up to the Yanks and Westminster. The shocking thing for me then and still is, is the power the SNP has to simply change laws without passing any scrutiny at all, no vote, no house of lords, nothing. The recent legalising of drugs without passing any form of vote especially given the fact that their own MP's or MSP's can't vote against them is unacceptable. Westminster has reined them in once or twice but the legalising of drugs is far bigger a deal than the plastic bottles fiasco, the ferries and the cocks in frocks put together. Dorothy Bain should never have the power to change laws under orders of the SNP of her own back.

Which drugs have been legalised and where can they be bought legally? Asking for a friend.

[The AuldYin]

Which drugs have been legalised and where can they be bought legally? Asking for a friend.

All drugs and no idea where you can buy them, I presume from a drug dealer, the state will supply heroin free no need to buy.

[islaydarkblue]

All drugs and no idea where you can buy them, I presume from a drug dealer, the state will supply heroin free no need to buy.
I am afraid that you are wrong about this.
I enclose an article dated 7th July 2023 which states that the Scottish Government wants to decriminalise drugs. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66133549
The U.K. Government have given the Scottish Government to hold a trial period of drug addicts taking illegal drugs under official supervision in drug consumption rooms in Glasgow as the SNP controlled Scottish Government have been banging on about wanting this introduced in Scotland.
It will be interesting to see what happens and if it is a success.

[islaydarkblue]

All drugs and no idea where you can buy them, I presume from a drug dealer, the state will supply heroin free no need to buy.
I enclose details of the drug consumption room which is being opened for a trial period. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-66877763
According to the enclosed article the room is open from 9.00 21.00 (9am to 9pm) 365 days a year.
However there is nothing to prevent drug addicts attending this drug consumption room to take illegal drugs when it is closed between 9pm and 9am the following day.

[Deeranged]

All drugs and no idea where you can buy them, I presume from a drug dealer, the state will supply heroin free no need to buy.

Parts one and three are not true - part two probably is and will remain that way although that's not legal.

[The AuldYin]

I enclose details of the drug consumption room which is being opened for a trial period. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-66877763
According to the enclosed article the room is open from 9.00 21.00 (9am to 9pm) 365 days a year.
However there is nothing to prevent drug addicts attending this drug consumption room to take illegal drugs when it is closed between 9pm and 9am the following day.

They plan to open "drug testing centres" in Aberdeen, Glasgow & Dundee where I presume no one will be arrested for possession of drugs either.
MSPs also backed a motion calling for an urgent review of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, adopting a “public health response” which decriminalises drugs for personal use. Whose gonna stop them?

[The AuldYin]

Parts one and three are not true - part two probably is and will remain that way although that's not legal.

Glasgow NHS has supplied pharmaceutical heroin for at least 3 or 4 years now and Tayside is about to follow suit. They of course haven't said it's legal they've said you won't be arrested for it.

[islaydarkblue]

They plan to open "drug testing centres" in Aberdeen, Glasgow & Dundee where I presume no one will be arrested for possession of drugs either.
MSPs also backed a motion calling for an urgent review of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, adopting a “public health response” which decriminalises drugs for personal use. Whose gonna stop them?
Yousef will have to be ‘shamed’ into stopping this daft “public health response” to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.

[grantzer]

Yousef will have to be ‘shamed’ into stopping this daft “public health response” to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.

No he won't. It is possibly the only sensible option.

Being addicted to something is a health problem, and by treating it as such it allows addicts access to health care, counselling, and a whole range of services without fear of arrest.

If the government could bring itself to funding treatments other than methadone it might even bring the drug problem in Scotland under control.

I think tho, that the government is too scared to adopt any policy that older voters can be told is 'daft' for fear of losing votes. Older voters are often scared by things they read in the papers they buy.
Even when it is obvious they are being lied to

[BCram]

No he won't. It is possibly the only sensible option.

Being addicted to something is a health problem, and by treating it as such it allows addicts access to health care, counselling, and a whole range of services without fear of arrest.

If the government could bring itself to funding treatments other than methadone it might even bring the drug problem in Scotland under control.

I think tho, that the government is too scared to adopt any policy that older voters can be told is 'daft' for fear of losing votes. Older voters are often scared by things they read in the papers they buy.
Even when it is obvious they are being lied to

I think you might be right. However, do the countries that have an enlightened approach such as you have suggested, still have a drug supply problem caused by criminal activity?

[The AuldYin]

No he won't. It is possibly the only sensible option.

Being addicted to something is a health problem, and by treating it as such it allows addicts access to health care, counselling, and a whole range of services without fear of arrest.

If the government could bring itself to funding treatments other than methadone it might even bring the drug problem in Scotland under control.

I think tho, that the government is too scared to adopt any policy that older voters can be told is 'daft' for fear of losing votes. Older voters are often scared by things they read in the papers they buy.
Even when it is obvious they are being lied to

The 1971 misuse of drugs act controls possession, supply & production , rip that up and we're f*cked. You don't have to be auld to realise making drugs free and readily available in Scotland is a tad silly. Hopefully Westminster will never allow it.

[noahrab]

No he won't. It is possibly the only sensible option.



The sensible option was not to cut drug funding…but then it’s the SNP we’re talking about here.

They can do no wrong in the cults(sp) eyes.

[The AuldYin]

Or hire more Bobbies and get some doors kicked in, at least make an effort to show you're trying to uphold the law.

[grantzer]

I think you might be right. However, do the countries that have an enlightened approach such as you have suggested, still have a drug supply problem caused by criminal activity?

Yes, everywhere has a drug problem. Not everyone has the level of drug related deaths tho.

[grantzer]

The sensible option was not to cut drug funding…but then it’s the SNP we’re talking about here.

They can do no wrong in the cults(sp) eyes.

Studies in Holland where people were treated as a health problem showed that not only were more people treated successfully, but the country saved money.

Drug addicts were rehabilitated and went back into work, associated crime like shoplifting went down, which allowed the police to focus on other matters.

Whether or not these benefits continued long time I can't say, once the trial stopped I had the info I needed, so I am not even sure if the trial became the policy for holland.

In my opinion, which to be fair means nothing really, any policy which cuts down on deaths and saves money has to be good, no matter who decides to try it.

[The AuldYin]

Studies in Holland where people were treated as a health problem showed that not only were more people treated successfully, but the country saved money.

Drug addicts were rehabilitated and went back into work, associated crime like shoplifting went down, which allowed the police to focus on other matters.

Whether or not these benefits continued long time I can't say, once the trial stopped I had the info I needed, so I am not even sure if the trial became the policy for holland.

In my opinion, which to be fair means nothing really, any policy which cuts down on deaths and saves money has to be good, no matter who decides to try it.

Who the F%ck told you that ****e? You seen Hollands drug problems? They've had so called harm reduction programmes since the 70's and are by far the highest drug users in Europe. Here's wee read for you as to why.

https://www.addictioncenter.com/news/2020/01/netherlands-narco-state/

Remember drugs are still illegal in Holland, the SNP want to legalise them not just treat the jakebombs.

[Deeranged]

Who the F%ck told you that ****e? You seen Hollands drug problems? They've had so called harm reduction programmes since the 70's and are by far the highest drug users in Europe. Here's wee read for you as to why.

https://www.addictioncenter.com/news/2020/01/netherlands-narco-state/

Remember drugs are still illegal in Holland, the SNP want to legalise them not just treat the jakebombs.

Not sure they actually want to legalise drugs per se. Providing improved facilities, healthcare and help that 'jakebombs' need isn't legalising jack ****.

Really can't see a day when the wife says she's just nipping to ASDA for a pack of cocaine or a hit of heroin in all honesty

[grantzer]

Who the F%ck told you that ****e? You seen Hollands drug problems? They've had so called harm reduction programmes since the 70's and are by far the highest drug users in Europe. Here's wee read for you as to why.

https://www.addictioncenter.com/news/2020/01/netherlands-narco-state/

Remember drugs are still illegal in Holland, the SNP want to legalise them not just treat the jakebombs.

Nobody told me that. I saw it first hand. I am well aware of the drug problems in holland, i am also aware of the drug problems all over europe. Which european country has the highest drug related deaths?

Any policy which might reduce that number of deaths is surely good?

Remember that drugs are still illegal in Scotland and nowhere has the snp said they want to legalise them.

What they want to do is make it safer for addicts and reduce drug related deaths.

What part of that do you think is wrong?

[noahrab]

Nobody told me that. I saw it first hand. I am well aware of the drug problems in holland, i am also aware of the drug problems all over europe. Which european country has the highest drug related deaths?

Any policy which might reduce that number of deaths is surely good?

Remember that drugs are still illegal in Scotland and nowhere has the snp said they want to legalise them.

What they want to do is make it safer for addicts and reduce drug related deaths.

What part of that do you think is wrong?


The increasing drug deaths in Scotland are a consequence of the SNP cutting funding.

Everyone who takes a real interest knows that.

Joe Fitzpatrick got binned from government because of it.

He got re elected with an increased majority.

Shows you how much the SNP and its enablers really care.

[The AuldYin]

The SNP have said for years they want to legalise all drugs I thought that was common knowledge. So far this has been blocked by Westminster but looks like they're trying to introduce it by stealth with these clinics and drug testing facilities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50036173#comments

Their latest effort https://www.itv.com/news/2023-07-07/scottish-government-calls-for-drug-possession-to-be-legal

They already supply heroin to drug users in Glasgow and that almost certainly will eventually cover the whole of Scotland. I don't think someone's wife will be going to Asda for it but when legalised someone will have to supply it.

[grantzer]

The increasing drug deaths in Scotland are a consequence of the SNP cutting funding.

Everyone who takes a real interest knows that.

Joe Fitzpatrick got binned from government because of it.

He got re elected with an increased majority.

Shows you how much the SNP and its enablers really care.

Anyone who takes a real interest means anyone who dislikes the snp and can never say they have done anything worthwhile.

Your hatred of the snp is pretty obvious, and makes you blinkered. But you think it makes you smart somehow

[grantzer]

The SNP have said for years they want to legalise all drugs I thought that was common knowledge. So far this has been blocked by Westminster but looks like they're trying to introduce it by stealth with these clinics and drug testing facilities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50036173#comments

Their latest effort https://www.itv.com/news/2023-07-07/scottish-government-calls-for-drug-possession-to-be-legal

They already supply heroin to drug users in Glasgow and that almost certainly will eventually cover the whole of Scotland. I don't think someone's wife will be going to Asda for it but when legalised someone will have to supply it.

They supply pharmaceutical grade heroine to a lot of people. But so does every country.

[noahrab]

Anyone who takes a real interest means anyone who dislikes the snp and can never say they have done anything worthwhile.

Your hatred of the snp is pretty obvious, and makes you blinkered. But you think it makes you smart somehow

Tell me 10 worthwhile things they have done in 16yrs.

Hate is a wasted emotion. Nationalism breeds hate.

I’m smart enough to see things for what they are.

[grantzer]

Tell me 10 worthwhile things they have done in 16yrs.

Hate is a wasted emotion. Nationalism breeds hate.

I’m smart enough to see things for what they are.

Nope. Not having that. Especially the last bit

[noahrab]

Nope. Not having that. Especially the last bit

Too easy.