Short Corners

[Bunks5]

Can someone please explain to me why we persist with the short corner routine? We had 10 corners today and not one of them went into the box. Most went back into our our half. Missed opportunity to put pressure on?

[marky]

Too predictable and lead to us putting ourselves under pressure when we should be putting the opposition under pressure.

[Bunks5]

Agreed, I just don’t understand why we don’t mix it up a bit. What’s wrong with either whipping the ball in and creating a bit of a panic or going long and attacking the far post every so often?

[matt_magpie]

We scored at Gillingham from one. Stats say chances of scoring from corners is about 2 or 3% and with a small side I guess that figures less.
Do agree today though they bought a lot of players out of the box so I did think it was worth whipping one in at least.

[the_anticlough]

Can someone please explain to me why we persist with the short corner routine? We had 10 corners today and not one of them went into the box. Most went back into our our half. Missed opportunity to put pressure on?

I think LW sees it the other way around. If you pitch the ball into a box packed with defenders and the biggest of them in the different colour top can just catch it, then you give the ball away in a second. Playing it short keeps control of the game and the pressure on.

We seemed well practiced now and in 3 or 4 passes the short corner gets you into a position that is more promising than a corner kick.

[BigFatPie]

I get the reasoning of a short corner, I just don’t know why we needed 3 or 4 players near the ball to take one.

[KeepTheMagpieFlyingH]

Can someone please explain to me why we persist with the short corner routine? We had 10 corners today and not one of them went into the box. Most went back into our our half. Missed opportunity to put pressure on?

Percentages

How many corners result in an attempt on goal? A lot more get cleared the opposite way..with our possession based approach it’s likely viewed as a cheap unnecessary turnover.

[Bunks5]

That’s fine if we move it quick enough and do get ourselves into a good position, ultimately ending with an attempt at goal. However, too often we seem to go backwards into our own half and sometimes even back to our own keeper. With only seconds left on the clock today we simply repeated the same tactic.

As Einstein said…. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[KeepTheMagpieFlyingH]

I’m waiting for the analyst team to figure out that Slocombes long kicking should be viewed the same way.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

Can someone please explain to me why we persist with the short corner routine? We had 10 corners today and not one of them went into the box. Most went back into our our half. Missed opportunity to put pressure on?

It’s designed to keep us in the oppositions half or ideally the final third and pick up from where we left off before the corner was given. We then have a number of options to pull defenders away from the goal to create openings, or we go a bit further back and look to play it round a packed defence to the other side of the pitch. Again to enable openings to be found. It’s about having that control and keeping the pressure on the opposition and retaining the ball. You whip the ball into the box and it becomes chaos and is unpredictable. Plus the gains are very low and if the opposition get rid of it or the keeper gets it then you’ve lost control.

[the_anticlough]

To create an overload which helps us to keep the ball. It seems a well-practiced routine, and in the one main variant, it gets the ball to a player at the angle of the box.

[the_anticlough]

I’m waiting for the analyst team to figure out that Slocombe's long kicking should be viewed the same way.

And Stone's. I think they know, and it's been a massive compromise they've had to make 'cos as of now we don't have the players to make playing out from the back work all of the time.

One weak link and the possession game can blow up in your face. We've only just found someone who can play RB and just then we lose our main CM playmaker.

[Bunks5]

I think I’m just old school. We have the best striker division who would be first to react many a loose ball and we have one of the best headers of the ball in McGoldrick. Would just like for us to mix it up every so often. Could even shape up to play the short corner to draw their usual three players out of position and then whip one in.

[Bunks5]

Mansfailed did quite well with the ball in the box tactic against us :-(

[TSANHO]

I get the short corner routine, and the reasons for it but I had to let out a sigh when, in the very last action of the game, we got a corner and still played it short…..surely there’s a time and place to just get the ball in there instead of running the clock down for the opposition!

[Bunks5]

Ok here’s my final grumble about it. Percentages don’t always win you games. We had 514 passes against their 290 but they had more shots on target….oh and they scored more goals than us.

But like I said I’m old school and I’m pretty sure LW knows more than me 😬

[MapperleyMagpie]

I have no problem with a short corner but please please mix it up, we have become so so predictable that all the top teams and managers have figured us out! We need some corners into the box, to occasionally counter quickly and do the odd long ball. Yes our football is beautiful but not always effective especially when chasing a game .

[KeepTheMagpieFlyingH]

I have no problem with a short corner but please please mix it up, we have become so so predictable that all the top teams and managers have figured us out! We need some corners into the box, to occasionally counter quickly and do the odd long ball. Yes our football is beautiful but not always effective especially when chasing a game .

It not just corner routines we’re coming unstuck with..it’s our rigid patterns also.

[LaxtonLad]

The enemy manager is aware of our persistent and unwavering taking of short corners and has two or three of his players there to counter any advantage the taking of the short corner might give. This is evident by the immediate rush of his players to the corner, by the way, NEVER does the referee keep the oppo players behind the 10 yard mark. He might just wave them away but then they creep back. The enemy manger knows this and encourages their creeping, so if he knows it why doesn't LW know it and tell his players to vary it a bit??

I'm aware of the percentage of goals scored involving the short corner (and it's very small) but how often do we benefit? And how often do you see it on MOTD? In fact, how often in L2? As someone else remarked, usually (for us) there is no advantage and the ball gets tippy-tapped back to our defenders so we start again, therefore a corner kick is of no use to Notts. At least the long corner puts the ball in the box.

[hissingdwarf]

Agree with all of this. I mentioned it last week and my opinion still hasn’t changed. I get the possession reason, but ffs, mix it up a little. With Didzy and Mecca, surely we have a chance of the odd 2nd ball in the box from a dodgy clearance?

[matt_magpie]

Agree with all of this. I mentioned it last week and my opinion still hasn’t changed. I get the possession reason, but ffs, mix it up a little. With Didzy and Mecca, surely we have a chance of the odd 2nd ball in the box from a dodgy clearance?

We actually did it last season and scored and LW put it down to the surprise element. I also support that stats show hardly any goals percentage wise are scored from corners but in the second half they had about 4 players coming out the box to shut down the short and to whip in a surprise corner may have worked with more space in there.

[KeepTheMagpieFlyingH]

We actually did it last season and scored and LW put it down to the surprise element. I also support that stats show hardly any goals percentage wise are scored from corners but in the second half they had about 4 players coming out the box to shut down the short and to whip in a surprise corner may have worked with more space in there.

If it goes the opposite way and we get countered our shapes gone to the dogs.

Not defending short corners just looking at LW’s likely logic.

[upthemaggies]

The ratio for goals from corners may be low, but assuming Wrexham's goal would not count in those stats - as the initial ball in was repelled - how many more are scored from pressure being maintained from a corner situation?

Working towards an attempt on goal from a corner has got to be preferable to not doing so. Obviously you do have to factor in conceding from a clearance and breakaway, but are we saying it's generally more beneficial to the opposition in football in general to put the ball into the box, or is this just Notts we are talking about?

[thefulltenyards]

Rigid patterns? As in rigid patterns of play aka passing moves?

[LaxtonLad]

The ratio for goals from corners may be low, but assuming Wrexham's goal would not count in those stats - as the initial ball in was repelled - how many more are scored from pressure being maintained from a corner situation?

Working towards an attempt on goal from a corner has got to be preferable to not doing so. Obviously you do have to factor in conceding from a clearance and breakaway, but are we saying it's generally more beneficial to the opposition in football in general to put the ball into the box, or is this just Notts we are talking about?

You have to wonder how these statistics are worked out. If the small percentage of goals scored from a corner is only because the scorer has hit the ball in direct from the cross then it would be a low count, or does it take into account the ball being passed around for a bit before someone whacks it in the net, if so, for how long or for how many passes before the corner kick is no longer taken into account? Who decides these things?

[keldsyke]

You have to wonder how these statistics are worked out. If the small percentage of goals scored from a corner is only because the scorer has hit the ball in direct from the cross then it would be a low count, or does it take into account the ball being passed around for a bit before someone whacks it in the net, if so, for how long or for how many passes before the corner kick is no longer taken into account? Who decides these things?

I’m guessing from the amount of corners Mansfield had to goals scored in the Derby match the stats say differently??… or perhaps Mansfield sussed we can’t defend corners! Horses for courses, you adapt to your opponents weakness’s rather than stick to a rigid process, tbe Einstein thing again!

[OP67]

Why play it high into the box when we don't have the players to get on the end of it? All that happenes is it'll end up with the opposition gaining the ball or it'll get hoofed into our own half. So long as we mix up the style of the short corners it's a good way of playing them in my book.

[Carlton_Pie]

Ok here’s my final grumble about it. Percentages don’t always win you games. We had 514 passes against their 290 but they had more shots on target….oh and they scored more goals than us.

But like I said I’m old school and I’m pretty sure LW knows more than me 😬

Your just going off 1 game. Over 16 we're ahead of Wrexham

[matt_magpie]

You have to wonder how these statistics are worked out. If the small percentage of goals scored from a corner is only because the scorer has hit the ball in direct from the cross then it would be a low count, or does it take into account the ball being passed around for a bit before someone whacks it in the net, if so, for how long or for how many passes before the corner kick is no longer taken into account? Who decides these things?

Think I posted it a while back something I had found, the jist was about 1% were knocked straight in off the corner and just under 3% total scored from corners either being knocked in straight away or scored from second phase.

[the_anticlough]

I think LW knows all too well that testing his methods out, with this team, in an unknown and higher league, is one big controlled experiment.

He's finding out over time what works and what doesn't, who works and who doesn't.

The most important point I'd say is that he's earned the right to do it his way, and find out for himself. If he modifies his approach at all, it won't because of old school moaners in the stands, but because he's collected enough evidence over a sufficient period of time

[MAD_MAGPIE]

I think LW knows all too well that testing his methods out, with this team, in an unknown and higher league, is one big controlled experiment.

He's finding out over time what works and what doesn't, who works and who doesn't.

The most important point I'd say is that he's earned the right to do it his way, and find out for himself. If he modifies his approach at all, it won't because of old school moaners in the stands, but because he's collected enough evidence over a sufficient period of time

A good post. The analysis and data and stats will also assist (and I emphasise assist for those who don’t like this element of the game) in this as well and will tell us where we need to improve and be better. Over time that will make us stronger and help the club identify the right kind of players to recruit and bring in. That’s why if we don’t get promoted this season or the next then it’s not the end of the world in time it will come. If we are to get promoted to league one then we’ve got to be able to consolidate and hold our own in that league and not burn out or hit a ceiling or slip backwards.

Trust the radar.

[durhampie]

A good post. The analysis and data and stats will also assist (and I emphasise assist for those who don’t like this element of the game) in this as well and will tell us where we need to improve and be better. Over time that will make us stronger and help the club identify the right kind of players to recruit and bring in. That’s why if we don’t get promoted this season or the next then it’s not the end of the world in time it will come. If we are to get promoted to league one then we’ve got to be able to consolidate and hold our own in that league and not burn out or hit a ceiling or slip backwards.

Trust the radar.

If we have any hope of getting promoted, then we need to stop signing players who are injured. Both Randall and Morias to date have been a waste of a shirt...

[thefulltenyards]

Any more ? If not, that's only two to be fair. Our of those two Morias has been the real shame especially since the Scott injury.

[KeepTheMagpieFlyingH]

Rigid patterns? As in rigid patterns of play aka passing moves?

Yes..rigid patterns of play as in passing moves.

[thefulltenyards]

Well that's certainly a first. I've not heard or read anybody complain about our passing movements that have been learnt and mastered on the training ground until now.

It's these plethora of pre-planned moves that are a main part of the reason we have been so fluid and effective to date. Short corners I'm all for surprising the opposition with a few hit directly towards with near post runs made but never seen our general play as being rigid or an issue. Will keep an eye out for that.

[KeepTheMagpieFlyingH]

Well that's certainly a first. I've not heard or read anybody complain about our passing movements that have been learnt and mastered on the training ground until now.

It's these plethora of pre-planned moves that are a main part of the reason we have been so fluid and effective to date. Short corners I'm all for surprising the opposition with a few hit directly towards with near post runs made but never seen our general play as being rigid or an issue. Will keep an eye out for that.

After a season and a third of you watching LW,s Notts you’ll need to keep an eye out. We’ll leave that one there then.

[Proactive not Reactive]

If we have any hope of getting promoted, then we need to stop signing players who are injured. Both Randall and Morias to date have been a waste of a shirt...

... or letting players go on the pitch and get injured aka Baj,Scott,Bostock hey Pink Panther.
Randall wasn't injured when we signed him he got injured in pre-season

[thefulltenyards]

For every ones sake let us hope you are wrong or hope Luke Williams can adapt if we have indeed been found out by teams in League Two. The results and our league position will likely give us the answer. In the season and a third of watching the rigid passing patterns have been a delight to watch and hard to stop.

[Proactive not Reactive]

Did we score from a short corner today ?

[SmiffyPie]

Did we score from a short corner today ?Yes and about time one worked ;D

[Proactive not Reactive]

Yes and about time one worked ;D

Scored the winner v Gillingham from a short corner so that’s two in a short space of time