Sad Demise Of Torquay Utd

[Glad2BeAPie]

Today has been put into administration by their owner who has jumped ship
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68376328

[SwalePie]

Today has been put into administration by their owner who has jumped ship
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68376328

Hopefully it won't actually be their demise. Fingers crossed for them. 'There but for the grace of God' etc.

[jackal2]

Sad news.

I've had a soft spot for Torquay United since I was a young kid.

In my naivety as an 7/8(ish) year old I didn't really understand the idea of football clubs being businesses, but wrote in my scribbled handwriting to a few football clubs asking if they could send me some memorabilia. Most were the top clubs at the time, and Notts County, but Torquay caught my eye as the little underdog sitting at the very bottom of Division Four.

Unsurprisingly, most clubs didn't reply at all, and a couple sent me a price list, but Torquay United sent me some stickers, a club pennant and a recent match day programme from a game against Southend, accompanied by a compliment slip saying: "Sorry, this is all we have!"

[upthemaggies]

Their highest average gate over the last 50 years is a mere 3,511, which probably explains a lot, seeing that were elected into the FL in 1927 and first dropped out only as recently as 2008. They have the pedigree but not the support.

Fighting your way back into the FL only to drop back out again seems to put traditional league clubs with low crowds at high risk, Darlington, Chester and Hereford all did that and went under after being relegated out of tier 4 the 2nd time and all are now forgotten tier 6 fodder. York also sunk as low as tier 6 the 2nd time around and are now struggling to make an impression on tier 5, despite having a fairly decent history for a lower end FL league club.

I think Lincoln are the only club to go down to tier 5 twice and rise back as high as tier 3, but they were the first club ever to be relegated into tier 5 and climbed straight back out.

[Mark_Ross]

Today has been put into administration by their owner who has jumped ship
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68376328

It's maybe 50/50 in these situations whether a club really does go under (and has to start all over again at a very low level) or recovers. I kind of have a soft spot for them (no idea why) so I hope they are okay.

[queenslandpie]

Sad news.

I've had a soft spot for Torquay United since I was a young kid.

In my naivety as an 7/8(ish) year old I didn't really understand the idea of football clubs being businesses, but wrote in my scribbled handwriting to a few football clubs asking if they could send me some memorabilia. Most were the top clubs at the time, and Notts County, but Torquay caught my eye as the little underdog sitting at the very bottom of Division Four.

Unsurprisingly, most clubs didn't reply at all, and a couple sent me a price list, but Torquay United sent me some stickers, a club pennant and a recent match day programme from a game against Southend, accompanied by a compliment slip saying: "Sorry, this is all we have!"

Funnily enough I have always had a soft spot for Torquay as well. That was very decent of them. I will see if they have some kind of donation page and shove them a few quid.

[maddogslater]

Had some great away days/weekends there

[60YearsAPie]

Funnily enough I have always had a soft spot for Torquay as well.

Me too. I think my soft spot for Torquay stems from my days watching Soccer AM when it was introduced by Tim Lovejoy and the lovely Helen Chamberlain, who was a big Torquay fan. I seem to remember she came second in a big poker competition, winning in the region of $400K, and owned a couple of racehorses. I've also had some great weekends there over the years.

[uysapie]

Rochdale in the mire as well

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68353473

We were lucky with the Bros!

[slack_pie]

Always sad to see this happen. Wouldn't wish it on any club (apart from maybe MKD, but even then, I'd feel bad for the fans who actually care about them). Torquay were such a tough side just a few years ago in the NL. They always knocked us around a bit, especially at their place. Hope they pull through this and move on up again.

[queenslandpie]

Me too. I think my soft spot for Torquay stems from my days watching Soccer AM when it was introduced by Tim Lovejoy and the lovely Helen Chamberlain, who was a big Torquay fan. I seem to remember she came second in a big poker competition, winning in the region of $400K, and owned a couple of racehorses. I've also had some great weekends there over the years.

I read a book by Gary Nelson who also briefly played for us on loan which described they shoe string budget that Torquay used to operate on called Left foot In the grave. Good little read if you fancy it.

[TedBovisPie]

Rochdale in the mire as well

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68353473

We were lucky with the Bros!

Another traditional league club with low crowds as upthemaggies mentions above, wouldn’t be surprised if we didn’t see them back in the league.

[slack_pie]

Another traditional league club with low crowds as upthemaggies mentions above, wouldn’t be surprised if we didn’t see them back in the league.

Why do Rochdale have such low crowds? According to Wiki, the population of Rochdale is just over 100k, so about the same size as Mansfield. Yes, they are close to two huge Premier League clubs in Manchester, but they also get half the gates that Oldham get, which is five miles down the road and has a slightly smaller population.

I'm pretty sure Rochdale struggled to break 5k when they were an established L1 side as well, so it's not just about being in the NL.

[queenslandpie]

Why do Rochdale have such low crowds? According to Wiki, the population of Rochdale is just over 100k, so about the same size as Mansfield. Yes, they are close to two huge Premier League clubs in Manchester, but they also get half the gates that Oldham get, which is five miles down the road and has a slightly smaller population.

I'm pretty sure Rochdale struggled to break 5k when they were an established L1 side as well, so it's not just about being in the NL.

If you look at that area there are just tons of clubs. From the big Manchester sides Blackburn Huddersfield Bolton Oldham etc etc its pretty competitive. I would imagine the Stags get a fair bit of support from the outlying villages but I bet most of those around Rochdale go elsewhere. I wonder how Kairo is getting on there. He was such a weird signing.

[upthemaggies]

Why do Rochdale have such low crowds? According to Wiki, the population of Rochdale is just over 100k, so about the same size as Mansfield. Yes, they are close to two huge Premier League clubs in Manchester, but they also get half the gates that Oldham get, which is five miles down the road and has a slightly smaller population.

I'm pretty sure Rochdale struggled to break 5k when they were an established L1 side as well, so it's not just about being in the NL.

They never averaged more than 3,632 during their L1 spell recently, overall average for the last 50 years is 2,508.

A big factor might be the fact they spent 36 consecutive seasons in the 4th tier from 1974-2010 and the vast majority of those mid-bottom half of the table as no hopers, which is hardly going to inspire new generations of fans to turn up. They reached one play off final two years before going up with us in the Munto season, that 2008 Wembley trip (losing 2-3 to Stockport) probably was the thing that inspired their brief period of relative success. They were League Cup finalists back when it was a two leg home and away final in the 1960s but it must be that prolonged spell of stagnation that explains their lack of support.

[queenslandpie]

They never averaged more than 3,632 during their L1 spell recently, overall average for the last 50 years is 2,508.

A big factor might be the fact they spent 36 consecutive seasons in the 4th tier from 1974-2010 and the vast majority of those mid-bottom half of the table as no hopers, which is hardly going to inspire new generations of fans to turn up. They reached one play off final two years before going up with us in the Munto season, that 2008 Wembley trip (losing 2-3 to Stockport) probably was the thing that inspired their brief period of relative success. They were League Cup finalists back when it was a two leg home and away final in the 1960s but it must be that prolonged spell of stagnation that explains their lack of support.

Most of their "success" was also due to having Alan Hill as manager who called in a lot of favours and they had just a nuts amount of loan players at the time ( many on season long loans to keep the wage bill down) most of whom worked out for a while. Obviously not a recipe for long term success. But at the time I doubt any Rochdale fans moaned. It takes a special kind of person to support a perennially struggling team like them or Torquay with no investment ever and basically on the breadline every season. Much worse than Notts. I salute all of their fans.

[durhampie]

Its shocking when you have clubs on their doorstep spending literally millions on just one player, Whereas just 2 million would keep the likes Torquay and Rochdale afloat..

The Premier league and Sky have a lot to answer for. We just hope that one day the boots on the other foot..

[BCnotts18]

If you look at that area there are just tons of clubs. From the big Manchester sides Blackburn Huddersfield Bolton Oldham etc etc its pretty competitive. I would imagine the Stags get a fair bit of support from the outlying villages but I bet most of those around Rochdale go elsewhere. I wonder how Kairo is getting on there. He was such a weird signing.

He's not doing too badly, 9 goals in 24 appearances is certainly not a bad return at this stage of the season.

[upthemaggies]

I was just looking at the tables for 10 years ago, 2013/14........

Yeovil and Doncaster were both in the Championship.

Wolves, Sheff Utd and Brentford were all in the 3rd tier.

Luton were in the National League.

S****horpe won promotion into tier 3 that season with Rochdale.
Dagenham & Redbridge and York both finished just outside the 4th tier play offs.
Bristol Rovers relegated into tier 5.
Stockport finished 14th in tier 6 below Colwyn Bay and Leamington.

An awful lot can change in a decade!

[The_Don_ORiordan]

I think if you look at our crowds the few seasons before munto you get an idea of how a club perpetually in the lower half of league 2’s gates are affected.

Losing to crap sides, only able to buy crap and hire crap managers. Dire football.

[queenslandpie]

I was just looking at the tables for 10 years ago, 2013/14........

Yeovil and Doncaster were both in the Championship.

Wolves, Sheff Utd and Brentford were all in the 3rd tier.

Luton were in the National League.

S****horpe won promotion into tier 3 that season with Rochdale.
Dagenham & Redbridge and York both finished just outside the 4th tier play offs.
Bristol Rovers relegated into tier 5.
Stockport finished 14th in tier 6 below Colwyn Bay and Leamington.

An awful lot can change in a decade!

You wonder how long the Brothers will keep Notts for. If they decide to sell the club do you think they would publicise it or would it just come as a shock sale. I think the latter unless we were in financial distress which with these owners is as unlikey as any owner in my living memory. I do wonder often how long they will keep Notts for as I am very happy with them.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

You wonder how long the Brothers will keep Notts for. If they decide to sell the club do you think they would publicise it or would it just come as a shock sale. I think the latter unless we were in financial distress which with these owners is as unlikey as any owner in my living memory. I do wonder often how long they will keep Notts for as I am very happy with them.

I think unless they hit some significant external finance pressure I think notts are part of their business plan. So I think we are safe for a few years at least.

[60YearsAPie]

You wonder how long the Brothers will keep Notts for.

I can't see a team like Notts ever running at a profit year on year, so I hope the Brothers keep Notts at least until I win the Euromillions.

[upthemaggies]

I think unless they hit some significant external finance pressure I think notts are part of their business plan. So I think we are safe for a few years at least.

I would expect the next change of ownership to come out of the blue, not the sort of protracted drama that we've seen played out in public in more recent times.

[slack_pie]

If they do decide to sell, I hope they do so to people with similar ideals and ambitions. More a passing on the baton than a complete change.

[jacobncfc]

Assuming their other businesses and sources of funding stay secure, I suspect this is a very long term thing. Just get the impression they aren't your average owners who are either looking to make money out of it or some adulation/approval from people, I think they just enjoy it, basically being rich enough to play a real life game of football manager.

[Observerpie]

If they do decide to sell then I'm sure that they will ensure that the usual chancers will be given short shrift. Hopefully those days are now behind us, it's difficult to imagine the Brothers tossing all of their efforts and investment in the bin by selling to the crooks that invariably come sniffing round when a club is up for sale.

[slack_pie]

Assuming their other businesses and sources of funding stay secure, I suspect this is a very long term thing. Just get the impression they aren't your average owners who are either looking to make money out of it or some adulation/approval from people, I think they just enjoy it, basically being rich enough to play a real life game of football manager.

That's the impression I got as well. Their approach is about incremental improvements over time, not splashing the cash in hope of short-term success. It would make no sense for them to walk away after a few years. I think it all depends on their financial situation and whether they can continue to fund the club sufficiently when needed to make us successful. So far, so good.

[queenslandpie]

Assuming their other businesses and sources of funding stay secure, I suspect this is a very long term thing. Just get the impression they aren't your average owners who are either looking to make money out of it or some adulation/approval from people, I think they just enjoy it, basically being rich enough to play a real life game of football manager.

To some extent and it suits them at the moment clearly. Things change so history tells me not to be complacent . Great owners and you do what you do.

[tied_up_in_notts]

Most of their "success" was also due to having Alan Hill as manager
It was Keith ("if we don't catch them the tax man will") Hill

[marky]

Got a crowd of 3,642 today and drew 2-2 with Aveley from being 2-0 up. Gotta start somewhere I suppose.

[upthemaggies]

I notice that horrible club Dover are now rock bottom of the NL South, heading for tier 7.
Kings Lynn in real danger of going down to that level as well.

Most of the sides down at the bottom of the 5th tier are those who have come up recently, as often seemed the case when we were in it. For an ex-league club to end up in that situation, they must be in one hell of a mess.