Owners will not take risks with our fanbase

[Piessince67]

Having worked so hard to get a regular saturday 5 figure crowd ,any indication that is in jeopardy will mean action being taken.Yesterdays home crowd was 800 down on Barrow and Tuesday will be the seasons lowest.I came away depressed and i wont be alone.I think the manager is already at risk.

[Could'vebeenacontender]

The problems that are obvious to everyone - especially opposition management - started long ago under Luke so the new manager shouldn't get the blame
We play lovely football going forward but we aren't presently tough enough as a team
I noticed in commentary yesterday that Dave Bracegirdle and Mark Stallard were talking about getting one or two big, strong, experienced central defenders in if we are ever going to compete in the EFL
We all know that some of our players aren't good enough for this level. I believe the Wrexham manager even named one of our defenders who they deliberately targeted as they knew he's always likely to make a mistake or panic in possession

[LincsPie]

Having worked so hard to get a regular saturday 5 figure crowd ,any indication that is in jeopardy will mean action being taken.Yesterdays home crowd was 800 down on Barrow and Tuesday will be the seasons lowest.I came away depressed and i wont be alone.I think the manager is already at risk.

When we get a decent home crowd in one of the 'Special Offer' days we always seem to put in a crap performance.

A few rows away from me in the Pavis there were three 'dads' with about 10 kids of about 8 - 12 years between them.
A good performance/result would possibly mean half of them would come to the next full price match,
instead of going to the cinema or playing on the XBox on a Saturday afternoon.

I've often wondered if there's a corresponding drop in footfall/takings in the club shop after a crap performance.

First shout 'Maynard out' from the back of the Pavis 'A' but we can do without him trying to put his fist through the back of the stand - idiot!

[Kent Magpie]

Maynard tried to put his fist through the back of the stand? At least he show passion!

[TSANHO]

The problems may have been there under LW but he was able to motivate and make the players believe in themselves. They were coherent and together on the pitch, and exciting to watch.

What we are seeing now is the difference between a good manager and a poor manager with the same resources. The players haven’t all of sudden become poor over night.

I still think back to that first trining video under Maynard where him and the other coach were all shouting over each other. I don’t think anyone’s got a hold of this team at the minute, and the players are playing like it.

[Old_pie]

I think the owners will have their own metrics, fan base being one of them. But they won't (hopefully) be driven by the fan base alone and they know they are on a learning curve.

In a way I think we are suffering from last year's successes. Maybe a bit of a sense of "we've made it" compounded by a somewhat easy fixture list at the start of the season. Added to this was last season's momentum but as often is seen with promoted sides they start of very promisingly then they get sussed out. And once one team has shown how to deal with us everyone else follows suit.

Recruitment hasn't been the best and we have too many now. Obviously losing Matty is a big blow and the LW leaving, even though the overall picture was one of going backwards, or at least, of not keeping up.

It occurs to me that neither Bostock nor Crowley have really reached the heights they did before Crowley's salute to his faith. Bostock I suspect needs special management otherwise he would be at a much higher level.

But the owners will react calmly. Realistically this season is now consolidation. They will have learnt much for next season but I doubt that they will replicate the signings of Macca and Jodi who likely will be gone especially with LW there. The only real disaster would be to face another relegation in the next few years. A mid-table finish, in their view, will be better than we've achieved for over 5 seasons.

[Piessince67]

The problem is that if the season fizzles out,there will be an effect on season ticket sales.Our crowds are 3k up,some of that is down to away fans but we have scored 3 goals in the last 3 home games.The previous 3 at home saw 9 goals scored.In fairness to the manager our away performances have improved but its home form that brings the fans in.

[maddogslater]

Tuesday is now must win, I'm doubting him already though after that with his constant tinkering in game, the players don't know if they're coming or going.

6 games, 6 scored 10 against. 4 points 👉

[legs77]

Tuesday is now must win, I'm doubting him already though after that with his constant tinkering in game, the players don't know if they're coming or going.

6 games, 6 scored 10 against. 4 points 👉

Exactly people keep saying we had these problems under LW are misunderstanding what some of us are saying.

Under LW we had a CLEAR game plan, do we have that now ?

Yes we let goals in under LW but we always looked like scoring Crowley is suffering the most he is being chucked wide or all over the place.

Tuesday is must win now without doubt.

[Rainbowpie]

What do people mean when they say it's time to consolidate?
it bugs me to death reading when things like this are written. You can't consolidate, that's like saying we're not expected to win many games so we won't try and win every game from now. It's rubbish
We started well in the season and just have not adapted to changes where as other teams have
We've been a one trick pony and when that fails we have nothing
Persisting with the same patterns of play week in week out has been so easy for other teams to work out. We are blinded by this possession factor, whether that's from the owners or the managerial staff, but possession doesn't win matches. Especially our slow unimaginative obvious possession

We will finish up just above relegation and because of this consolidation, we will be starting from scratch again next season

[OldBanksy]

I still think back to that first trining video under Maynard where him and the other coach were all shouting over each other. I don’t think anyone’s got a hold of this team at the minute, and the players are playing like it.
Thst was a bad sign.

[MapperleyMagpie]

What do people mean when they say it's time to consolidate?
it bugs me to death reading when things like this are written. You can't consolidate, that's like saying we're not expected to win many games so we won't try and win every game from now. It's rubbish
We started well in the season and just have not adapted to changes where as other teams have
We've been a one trick pony and when that fails we have nothing
Persisting with the same patterns of play week in week out has been so easy for other teams to work out. We are blinded by this possession factor, whether that's from the owners or the managerial staff, but possession doesn't win matches. Especially our slow unimaginative obvious possession

We will finish up just above relegation and because of this consolidation, we will be starting from scratch again next season

Spot on! Absolutely agree. How do you consolidate with your best players gone and your fan based dwindling?

[tommopie8]

If you're not progressing you're going backwards in football.

We've got a team who for all their technical skill don't put in the hard yards. You've now got former Premier League academy players and players who have played leagues above this being set up by a man who is at the highest level he's ever been at.

You'll hear it all the time on podcasts from former players - impressions are made almost instantaneously and it's nigh on impossible to claw it back if you don't make a good one.

He sold Warner down the river yesterday and we've been out-fought and out-thought on numerous occasions but yesterday was appalling.

That's twice we've rolled over to play-off contenders at home since SM took charge and if I'm honest his interviews are dull, he's a cliché merchant and I cannot see him being a success based on anything he's brought to the table so far.

He's made us more solid to a degree but at the complete expense of attacking fluidity and he's actually got options in positions which LW didn't have the luxury of during his blip.

3/10 so far - if it continues in this manner I can't see attendances being anywhere near that next season that they've been this year.

[Old_pie]

What do people mean when they say it's time to consolidate?
it bugs me to death reading when things like this are written. You can't consolidate, that's like saying we're not expected to win many games so we won't try and win every game from now. It's rubbish
We started well in the season and just have not adapted to changes where as other teams have
We've been a one trick pony and when that fails we have nothing
Persisting with the same patterns of play week in week out has been so easy for other teams to work out. We are blinded by this possession factor, whether that's from the owners or the managerial staff, but possession doesn't win matches. Especially our slow unimaginative obvious possession

We will finish up just above relegation and because of this consolidation, we will be starting from scratch again next season

Consolidate means don't run around in circles and accept that some parts need rebuilding. Or we can go back to bust or boom which inevitably ended up in bust.

What do you now want our owners to do? You think they don't see the issues? They have a "low cost" model looking for underrated value and up until this season they've succeeded. Even mid-table in League 2 is (or I thought it was supposed to be) better than being non-league.

If we finish 13th then finishing 8th next season will be progress. No way are we anywhere near ready for League 1.

[durhampie]

If you're not progressing you're going backwards in football.

We've got a team who for all their technical skill don't put in the hard yards. You've now got former Premier League academy players and players who have played leagues above this being set up by a man who is at the highest level he's ever been at.

You'll hear it all the time on podcasts from former players - impressions are made almost instantaneously and it's nigh on impossible to claw it back if you don't make a good one.

He sold Warner down the river yesterday and we've been out-fought and out-thought on numerous occasions but yesterday was appalling.

That's twice we've rolled over to play-off contenders at home since SM took charge and if I'm honest his interviews are dull, he's a cliché merchant and I cannot see him being a success based on anything he's brought to the table so far.

He's made us more solid to a degree but at the complete expense of attacking fluidity and he's actually got options in positions which LW didn't have the luxury of during his blip.

3/10 so far - if it continues in this manner I can't see attendances being anywhere near that next season that they've been this year.

That is a brilliant assessment of the current state of the management/Team.. Personally i dont think Bostock, and probably one or two others have no respect for this guy, and it reflects in the performances..

[upthemaggies]

One of most obvious indicators for where you should be in the division is the difference between home average and away average.

Notts home average is currently 11,283
Away average is currently 6,579

That's almost double the difference. We should be up there challenging, no excuses. The fans are doing more than their bit, the shortcomings are elsewhere.

A bottom half finish would be a fail, not progress, especially given where we were with LW earlier this season.

Current home averages

1 Bradford City 17,526
2 Notts County 11,284
3 Wrexham 10,814
4 Stockport County 9,230
5 Swindon Town 8,810
6 AFC Wimbledon 7,877
7 Mansfield Town 7,371
8 Doncaster Rovers 6,775
9 Tranmere Rovers 6,710
10 Milton Keynes Dons 6,469
11 Gillingham 6,348
12 Grimsby Town 6,284
13 Walsall 5,513
14 Crewe Alexandra 4,896
15 Newport County 4,386
16 Morecambe 3,962
17 Colchester United 3,789
18 Barrow 3,750
19 Crawley Town 3,373
20 Sutton United 3,156
21 Salford City 2,947
22 Harrogate Town 2,677
23 Accrington Stanley 2,566
24 Forest Green Rovers 2,210

[the_anticlough]

Thst was a bad sign.

We should’ve heard from the Saunders brothers by now through the media team. They have contracts so shouldn’t leave the comms to poor old Maynard all the time. This for me, hasn’t been a great sign

[keldsyke]

What do you now want our owners to do? You think they don't see the issues?

Obviously not, most of us have seen the glaring deficiencies in the goal keeper and defensive frailties but they’ve either not been seen or acknowledged / addressed over the past year or so. I would at the cost of McGoldrick coming to us brought in a decent centre half for this league. Someone posted a few months back that the recruitment team side had been disbanded because of redundancies within the brother’s main business. The recruitment has been appalling defensively wise while the brothers have been in charge, a complete re-think is needed, and I’ll say this again I feel for SM as he’s been left with this mess, and the deficiencies are now showing week in week out because of the lack of proper recruitment for this league, combined with him trying to find his feet coming into a full time roll / club he isn’t being helped by players who are experienced enough to know and do better.

[legs77]

One of most obvious indicators for where you should be in the division is the difference between home average and away average.

Notts home average is currently 11,283
Away average is currently 6,579

That's almost double the difference. We should be up there challenging, no excuses. The fans are doing more than their bit, the shortcomings are elsewhere.

A bottom half finish would be a fail, not progress, especially given where we were with LW earlier this season.

Current home averages

1 Bradford City 17,526
2 Notts County 11,284
3 Wrexham 10,814
4 Stockport County 9,230
5 Swindon Town 8,810
6 AFC Wimbledon 7,877
7 Mansfield Town 7,371
8 Doncaster Rovers 6,775
9 Tranmere Rovers 6,710
10 Milton Keynes Dons 6,469
11 Gillingham 6,348
12 Grimsby Town 6,284
13 Walsall 5,513
14 Crewe Alexandra 4,896
15 Newport County 4,386
16 Morecambe 3,962
17 Colchester United 3,789
18 Barrow 3,750
19 Crawley Town 3,373
20 Sutton United 3,156
21 Salford City 2,947
22 Harrogate Town 2,677
23 Accrington Stanley 2,566
24 Forest Green Rovers 2,210

That’s only one part of the picture though our budget is 10-12th we know this as it’s been said several times and the club pretty much confirmed it.

Having a big fan base isn’t the be all end all as Man Utd would win the league every season.

MK Dons/Mansfield who are way down on our crowds 100% have a much bigger budget than us for a start.

LW had us punching above our weight it’s now all falling apart as the replacement just isn’t on his level that IS the issue.

[Iremongersrighthand]

I think the owners will have their own metrics, fan base being one of them. But they won't (hopefully) be driven by the fan base alone and they know they are on a learning curve.

In a way I think we are suffering from last year's successes. Maybe a bit of a sense of "we've made it" compounded by a somewhat easy fixture list at the start of the season. Added to this was last season's momentum but as often is seen with promoted sides they start of very promisingly then they get sussed out. And once one team has shown how to deal with us everyone else follows suit.

Recruitment hasn't been the best and we have too many now. Obviously losing Matty is a big blow and the LW leaving, even though the overall picture was one of going backwards, or at least, of not keeping up.

It occurs to me that neither Bostock nor Crowley have really reached the heights they did before Crowley's salute to his faith. Bostock I suspect needs special management otherwise he would be at a much higher level.

But the owners will react calmly. Realistically this season is now consolidation. They will have learnt much for next season but I doubt that they will replicate the signings of Macca and Jodi who likely will be gone especially with LW there. The only real disaster would be to face another relegation in the next few years. A mid-table finish, in their view, will be better than we've achieved for over 5 seasons.

Great post. I am getting a little concerned about us being dragged into a relegation fight.

[the_anticlough]

Exactly people keep saying we had these problems under LW are misunderstanding what some of us are saying.

Under LW we had a CLEAR game plan.

We’re on the same page at the moment Legs. SM came in espousing his system, then took an axe to it almost immediately. If we import superior players into what we do, it will work, and there won’t be anything L2 sides can do about it. Example, Nemane flunks badly for 2 games? He’s out. We try somebody else, and on and on until we do get a right wing back we can rely on. Switching systems all the time lets the players off the hook. Play our way, make tweaks by all means, but put the onus on the players to make what they’ve worked on work for the club

[Scamps]

We’re on the same page at the moment Legs. SM came in espousing his system, then took an axe to it almost immediately. If we import superior players into what we do, it will work, and there won’t be anything L2 sides can do about it. Example, Nemane flunks badly for 2 games? He’s out. We try somebody else, and on and on until we do get a right wing back we can rely on. Switching systems all the time lets the players off the hook. Play our way, make tweaks by all means, but put the onus on the players to make what they’ve worked on work for the club

Pay peanuts employ monkeys its not rocket science is it ,if your not careful you will end up non league again

[OP67]

I believe the Wrexham manager even named one of our defenders who they deliberately targeted as they knew he's always likely to make a mistake or panic in possession

They targeted Nemane as they knew he wasn't a wing back and was pretty poor at defending. Not sure if the plan worked but that was he said.

SM has had tough opposition to start his Notts career but we're 6 games in and we seem to going backwards again. Newport we were gifted goals just like we gift goals. He'll be given to to end of the season now as we're not going down and we're not likely to get into the play off let alone win them.

[Bohinen]

if I'm honest his interviews are dull, he's a cliché merchant and I cannot see him being a success based on anything he's brought to the table so far.

Exactly this and I said so based on interviews before he joined us. You can say it doesn't matter but how do you motivate players if you can't enthuse them? All top managers have a way of communicating that can be inspiring. It's like we are paying for his apprenticeship but we don't have time for that and what guarantee is there he will ever be good enough?

Talk of consolidation is nonsense if your second half of the season is much worse than your first half. Teams tend to carry their end of season form into the next year. As someone else pointed out, you're either going forwards or you're going backwards, downward momentum is very hard to reverse, as we have seen in the past.

[the_anticlough]

Pay peanuts employ monkeys its not rocket science is it ,if your not careful you will end up non league again

Your v You're isn't rocket science either, but that's another story

[jackal2]

Having worked so hard to get a regular saturday 5 figure crowd ,any indication that is in jeopardy will mean action being taken.Yesterdays home crowd was 800 down on Barrow and Tuesday will be the seasons lowest.I came away depressed and i wont be alone.I think the manager is already at risk.

The current owners are intelligent and strategic enough not to not pay heed to passive aggressive posts like this.

The club will give Stuart Maynard ample time to develop the team in his own image and improve results. There will be no knee-jerk reactions, no panic, and no decisions taken on the basis of placating the week-to-week mood swings of football fans (witness the euphoria after the Newport result only two games back).

As with Neal Ardley, there will come a time, after an extended period of analysis and reflection, where the Reedtz Bros will decide if Stuart Maynard is making sufficient progress, but it won't be for quite a while yet. The ethos and decision-making of the club now is very different from previous regimes.

I actually agree with the point being made by one or two posters that the current run of results probably wouldn't have been that different under Luke Williams. I think we were destined to hit a wall with the current team regardless of who was manager, which is quite normal when you're in a new league finding out which players can cope with the step up and which can't. "You win or you learn", and from the current struggles the club and management will be learning which positions and attributes of the team need upgrading.

What's needed from fans, if possible, is a calm, patient, mature attitude while we go through this process.

[Old_pie]

Pay peanuts employ monkeys its not rocket science is it ,if your not careful you will end up non league again

Remind me how much we paid for Macca.

I don't recall now but remind me of some of Trew's marquee signings.

There's a balance to be found - I'm sure the bros will find it because that is what there business model is.

[Old_pie]

As someone else pointed out, you're either going forwards or you're going backwards, downward momentum is very hard to reverse, as we have seen in the past.

And that is as much a cliché as tommo alluded to.

There are many clubs who sit in or around mid-table in their respective leagues who are content to do so having found a balance of manageable/affordable budget and performance.

[upthemaggies]

And that is as much a cliché as tommo alluded to.

There are many clubs who sit in or around mid-table in their respective leagues who are content to do so having found a balance of manageable/affordable budget and performance.

Apart from the top flight, most clubs change division regularly. 17 clubs in tier 3 - including this season - are only in their 1st, 2nd or 3rd campaign in the same division. 13 of those 17 in their 1st of 2nd.

[Elite_Pie]

They targeted Nemane as they knew he wasn't a wing back and was pretty poor at defending. Not sure if the plan worked but that was he said.

Are you sure? As I recall Parkinson told his players to target Cameron.

[optipez]

Exactly this and I said so based on interviews before he joined us. You can say it doesn't matter but how do you motivate players if you can't enthuse them? All top managers have a way of communicating that can be inspiring. It's like we are paying for his apprenticeship but we don't have time for that and what guarantee is there he will ever be good enough?

Talk of consolidation is nonsense if your second half of the season is much worse than your first half. Teams tend to carry their end of season form into the next year. As someone else pointed out, you're either going forwards or you're going backwards, downward momentum is very hard to reverse, as we have seen in the past.

We do have time. We're not going down this season so there is time for him to learn and come back stronger next season. There will be a lot of churn this summer regardless and the manager, recruitment team and coaches will hopefully be learning.
Maybe Maynard won't work out, most managers don't but we have this season to see if he grows but also to line up a new coach if it doesn't like it's going to work.

[marky]

It's Montague that should be in the firing line, not Maynard.

[durhampie]

Are you sure? As I recall Parkinson told his players to target Cameron.

They could have targeted any of our defenders, as none of them, apart from Macari and Baldwin are any good..

[Jampie]

The owners reacting to crowd size changes by sacking a manager (?) would be wildly out of character for them. Sounds like Hardy's leadership not the Reedtz brothers.

They will almost certainly give SM this season to sort himself and the team out, and hopefully we can field a stronger team next year. If we lose Macca and Jones (does seem plausible) we will have money from their sales to bring in new talent and/or bring the club closer to financial sustainability.

I gotta wonder how many lost ticket sales would be paid for by whatever we got for LW's departure? I'd guess quite a few.

People need to chill out a bit. It's understandable to be disappointed after a bad run of results, but our new owners just don't make knee-jerk decisions. You can expect them to adjust a strategy that's not working, but they'll hardly decide that after a handful of games.

[hissingdwarf]

Are you sure? As I recall Parkinson told his players to target Cameron.

Yes it was Cameron, but to be fair, all of them have errors in them regularly. Not being harsh, just factual. Baldwin, who we probably all agree is our best CB, still has at least 3 errors per game. Hence him being a L2 player and not Prem.
Cameron would struggle to get into Sunday pub team…unless they make him captain and undroppable…bit like Notts!

[nw6pie]

The current owners are intelligent and strategic enough not to not pay heed to passive aggressive posts like this.

The club will give Stuart Maynard ample time to develop the team in his own image and improve results. There will be no knee-jerk reactions, no panic, and no decisions taken on the basis of placating the week-to-week mood swings of football fans (witness the euphoria after the Newport result only two games back).

As with Neal Ardley, there will come a time, after an extended period of analysis and reflection, where the Reedtz Bros will decide if Stuart Maynard is making sufficient progress, but it won't be for quite a while yet. The ethos and decision-making of the club now is very different from previous regimes.

I actually agree with the point being made by one or two posters that the current run of results probably wouldn't have been that different under Luke Williams. I think we were destined to hit a wall with the current team regardless of who was manager, which is quite normal when you're in a new league finding out which players can cope with the step up and which can't. "You win or you learn", and from the current struggles the club and management will be learning which positions and attributes of the team need upgrading.

What's needed from fans, if possible, is a calm, patient, mature attitude while we go through this process.

Jackal, you’re far too sensible for this board. I do think part of our problem as a club over the years has been the lack of patience from owners/fans when things aren’t going well. The most obvious examples are Martin Allen and Craig Short, but I’m sure there are more. I may not have 100% faith in Stuart Maynard yet, but we need to give him time to find his feet. It was a big gamble giving him the job as it is a huge step-up from part-time Wealdstone to Notts, but he needs our support right now, not our derision. I’m sure it’s hard for him not to feel a little “imposter syndrome”, but it’s also up to him and his team to make the most of this opportunity.

Re the initial question, this season will hopefully give the owners a better insight into the EFL and what’s needed to succeed. The most glaring thing for me as the season has progressed is that possession is meaningless if you don’t do anything with it to hurt the opposition. LW always used to talk about dominating teams, but we’ve not really been able to do that enough in L2. Eighty percent possession is worthless if you’re not scoring goals with it and conceding bad ones from the other 20%. The only way we will dominate teams again is by having better players all over the pitch, like last season - quicker, stronger, bigger, more athletic; able to keep the ball and win it back quickly. However, that may take a few seasons to get right.

I notice the youngsters beat Brentford 6-0 the other day. Worth bearing in mind that we’re talking about a club ethos here and a specific way of playing, and that’s hopefully going to be ever-more important in the years to come. In that regard, we’re still playing catch-up with the likes of Mansfield and Crewe.

[Glad2BeAPie]

Are you sure? As I recall Parkinson told his players to target Cameron.
He said this in his interview

[Bohinen]

I may not have 100% faith in Stuart Maynard yet, but we need to give him time to find his feet. It was a big gamble giving him the job as it is a huge step-up from part-time Wealdstone to Notts, but he needs our support right now, not our derision. I’m sure it’s hard for him not to feel a little “imposter syndrome”, but it’s also up to him and his team to make the most of this opportunity.

In other words, you have no faith in Maynard either but won't go against words of wisdom from Jackal and other 'respected' posters. But you will reach the tipping point sooner or later. Others will turn sooner.

It's a bit like in 1984 where some people will swallow the party line that the chocolate ration has gone up again, when in reality it has gone down. A shockingly bad decision was made to appoint Maynard over Warnock. All the 'intelligent' posters in the world will not convince me otherwise.

[TSANHO]

In other words, you have no faith in Maynard either but won't go against words of wisdom from Jackal and other 'respected' posters. But you will reach the tipping point sooner or later. Others will turn sooner.

It's a bit like in 1984 where some people will swallow the party line that the chocolate ration has gone up again, when in reality it has gone down. A shockingly bad decision was made to appoint Maynard over Warnock. All the 'intelligent' posters in the world will not convince me otherwise.

If Warnock was really open to this position then it was a massive gaffe by the owners, one of very few I may add, to not appoint him.

The players and club just needed that impetus after LW leaving, for the rest of the season whilst taking time to find a successor in the mould the club want. The players would’ve known their roles and duties to a tee, there wouldn’t be any confusion….and it would’ve added hundreds onto the gate, never mind other coaches suddenly being weary of having to face Notts.

Instead we’re sleep walking towards the end of the season.

[jackal2]

In other words, you have no faith in Maynard either but won't go against words of wisdom from Jackal and other 'respected' posters. But you will reach the tipping point sooner or later. Others will turn sooner.

It's a bit like in 1984 where some people will swallow the party line that the chocolate ration has gone up again, when in reality it has gone down. A shockingly bad decision was made to appoint Maynard over Warnock. All the 'intelligent' posters in the world will not convince me otherwise.

My post wasn't actually advocating for or against Maynard himself. I was observing that those fans urging/wanting an early decision on the Head Coach are being unrealistic, because the current owners don't operate that way. They will assess Maynard - or indeed any Head Coach they appoint/inherit - over a longer period of time. It's what they do.

Many football fans will make their minds up much quicker, because that's what fans do, but we fans are notoriously emotional and fickle. If Maynard won his next few games then many of those expressing severe doubts about him today would fall silent or even become pro-Maynard (after a discreet interval to spare their embarrassment).

With the benefit of hindsight I certainly prefer the Reedtz approach to what went before. What a club doesn't need, as proven by Trew, Hardy and a few others, is Chairmen or Boardrooms who think too much like fans, or worse still read and get influenced by message boards like this, because we've seen where that leads: chaos and confusion and overall decline.

The key decision-makers at the club need to be rational, patient and strategic in the decisions they make, at least one step removed from the melee, rather than over-reacting to short-term runs of results or fan mood. I think that's the kind of long-term-thinking we have with the Reedtz Bros and their data-driven approach, which of course isn't guaranteed to be constantly successful - nothing is - but to date has been far more successful - and calm - than what we had previously.

[BigFatPie]

If the op is saying the owners won’t put up with too many more performances like yesterday’s because of falling crowds, I hope they’re right. The main defence of the new head coach I’ve seen/heard is that Maynard has inherited all the current problems from Williams. I don’t really agree with this, but even if he did isn’t his job to think of and enact solutions? All I see is chopping and changing of formations and player’s positions, and younger players thrown under the bus, to no great effect. What players always say about good managers is everyone knows their roles and everyone knows what the plan is. Even when we were shipping goals under Williams I could always see what we were trying to do and had a strategy to achieve it, unfortunately some players weren’t good enough. I saw nothing of the sort either yesterday or against Gillingham.

If we played Doncaster and Morecambe at home in the next few days would anyone expect us to beat them 3-0 and 5-0? A defeat on Tuesday (hi Harry Smith) and a few ‘he needs time’ wallahs might be changing their tune.

[marky]

The title of this thread is "Owners will not take risks with our fanbase" but you could justifiably argue that they already have done by appointing Maynard.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

We are having a bad patch against the best sides in the league. We've not experienced poor performances at home really since the relegation season in 2018/19. It needs calm heads through this storm. I'm not excusing or trying to dismiss the fact we have problems but changing the clubs philosophy, sacking the manager and all the recruitment team and blaming everyone, making Meadow Lane toxic can have no positive outcome as we have seen many times before.

We are not consistent and that's something we are not used to. For the previous four seasons we have won more games than we have lost and Meadow Lane has been a fortress. What this season is telling us and teaching us is that we are not Notts County in the National League anymore.

I have watched every game that Stuart Maynard has been in charge of. Against Wrexham and Mansfield it was very fine margins. Gillingham was an individual error ridden horror show and so was Crewe. Newport are the leagues second most in form team and we saw them off. Barrow was a decent point against a team that were around us.

We are 21st in the current form table in the last six games having won 1, drawn 1 and lost 3 (Barrow 6th, Mansfield 2nd, Gillingham 7th, Wrexham 4th, Crewe 3rd)

But we are not the only ones struggling at the moment and having a bad patch. Stockport have only won once in the last six and are 19th in the current form table having got 6 points from 6 games. They lost to Tranmere 4-0 (we lost to Tranmere as well), they lost to Crewe 3-1, they lost to Mansfield 2-0 and managed to draw with Gillingham. They've only beaten Grimsby 3-1.

Barrow are another one they are currently worse than us 22nd in the form table in the last six. They have lost to bottom half sides Salford, Forest Green Rovers along with Crewe who beat them 3-1 and Wimbledon. They got a point against us. Their only win in the last six was to MK Dons.

We really do need to be patient and give Stuart Maynard, the club and the players time to work their way though this poor spell and support and get behind them starting on Tuesday night against Sutton.

[queenslandpie]

Don't really see why everyone is carrying on. Transition takes time. It took us a long time to get it right in the NL. It has taken Stags a decade to get out of this league with significant investment ( assuming they go up). We have players who are not good enough and quite a few of them are on 2 year deals. We will inevitably get better ones. Is the manager good enough? Let's find out. It's disappointing but perhaps inevitable we have slipped down the table.

[Elite_Pie]

In other words, you have no faith in Maynard either but won't go against words of wisdom from Jackal and other 'respected' posters. But you will reach the tipping point sooner or later. Others will turn sooner.

It's a bit like in 1984 where some people will swallow the party line that the chocolate ration has gone up again, when in reality it has gone down. A shockingly bad decision was made to appoint Maynard over Warnock. All the 'intelligent' posters in the world will not convince me otherwise.

I doubt I qualify as a 'respected' or 'intelligent' poster, but I haven't given up on Maynard yet. The only thing I don't like about him so far are his results, and I say that knowing full well that results are the most important thing. He's made a big jump and it could be that he's out of his depth, but I'm 50/50 at the moment.

[durhampie]

I doubt I qualify as a 'respected' or 'intelligent' poster, but I haven't given up on Maynard yet. The only thing I don't like about him so far are his results, and I say that knowing full well that results are the most important thing. He's made a big jump and it could be that he's out of his depth, but I'm 50/50 at the moment.

He was left with a slump already in full flow.. Get to the end of the season, and get rid of the likes of Bostock, McGoldrick, Nemane and the rest of the treatment table crew..

[Lullapie]

The problem with Maynard's appointment was that it looked more like someone the owners could control rather than who was best for the club at that moment in time. Maynard's CV to an outsider was nowhere near good enough for Notts. Seriously, a part-time manager in League 2???

There were so many problems with what that would bring. At Wealdstone, his starting eleven probably picked themselves each week and he had little choice with who to replace them with, if they didn't perform.

Wealdstone were probably grateful for him doing the job - as he kept the costs down too.

I don't know any of Wealdstone's players (looking at them on Wikipedia), but I'm sure they haven't reached the heady heights that some of our current squad have - that then brings with it credibility issues with the current pros at the club.

Good luck to Mr Maynard, but he has his work seriously cut out for him. However, the owners will stand by him for the rest of the season at the very least.

[Lullapie]

Remind me how much we paid for Macca.

I don't recall now but remind me of some of Trew's marquee signings.

There's a balance to be found - I'm sure the bros will find it because that is what there business model is.

He's a Stags fan Old Pie. The trouble with gloating when you're doing well, is that when it starts to go wrong - you look like a dick.

25775

[LaxtonLad]

Yes it was Cameron, but to be fair, all of them have errors in them regularly. Not being harsh, just factual. Baldwin, who we probably all agree is our best CB, still has at least 3 errors per game. Hence him being a L2 player and not Prem.
Cameron would struggle to get into Sunday pub team…unless they make him captain and undroppable…bit like Notts!

Camaron is a one-dimensional player with little or no imagination or daring. Week in and week out he only passes sideways and so rarely forward. If I were an enemy manager that's who I would target too. While he dwells on the ball before he does what he always does and looks left and right before passing left, THAT'S where I'd put a swift winger and advance a striker or three to the edge of the penalty box while our other defenders panic. (See "Caucus race" from Alice in Wonderland.)

[nw6pie]

In other words, you have no faith in Maynard either but won't go against words of wisdom from Jackal and other 'respected' posters. But you will reach the tipping point sooner or later. Others will turn sooner.

It's a bit like in 1984 where some people will swallow the party line that the chocolate ration has gone up again, when in reality it has gone down. A shockingly bad decision was made to appoint Maynard over Warnock. All the 'intelligent' posters in the world will not convince me otherwise.

I don’t understand all this “should have appointed Warnock” stuff. We appoint head coaches whose job is to improve the players on the training ground, not old-school managers based on nostalgic vibes. The owners have a long-term vision, and I’d be more worried if they abandoned that at the first sign of trouble than sticking to their principles.

I have the same concerns about SM as I had about IB and LW when they arrived. LW quickly blew those concerns away and showed himself to be an excellent leader, which is why he is now managing in the Championship. IB got off to an uncertain start, but overall proved a decent appointment. SM has had an uncertain start, but I want to give him time to prove himself. Doesn’t seem that much to ask. If things don’t improve this season, then the club will need to have an honest assessment of where things went wrong and act accordingly in a calm and rational manner.

[i961pie]

In other words, you have no faith in Maynard either but won't go against words of wisdom from Jackal and other 'respected' posters. But you will reach the tipping point sooner or later. Others will turn sooner.

It's a bit like in 1984 where some people will swallow the party line that the chocolate ration has gone up again, when in reality it has gone down. A shockingly bad decision was made to appoint Maynard over Warnock. All the 'intelligent' posters in the world will not convince me otherwise.

The owners are obviously looking at the long term why would they appoint Warnock for 6 months and change the style of football that they obviously want? It wouldn't make sense.

[slack_pie]

I think we should be having this conversation in a few weeks' time once we've played some of the more average L2 sides. Maynard has have a tough run of fixtures, and we were in poor form before LW left. Would we have won any of the games we've lost if LW was still here? I'm not so sure. He needs to turn it around soon though, starting with a win tomorrow.

I agree that our owners won't want to see our crowds drop, but they aren't your emotional, Alan Hardy-esque, knee-jerk types either. They're more likely to give Maynard time and judge him over months, not weeks. I don't see any point in another managerial change before the summer, unless things get really bad.

We also have to question some of the recruitment decisions made. I understand why the club was loyal to the likes of Rawlo, Brindley, and Slocombe, but they aren't good enough to take the club any further. We failed to recruit an adequate keeper or defence, and when we had a chance to sort in January, we went for an inexperienced loanee.

What worries me about our 'philosophy' is that it doesn't seem to account for some of the most important factors in making a team successful - hard work, grit, determination, and so on. Collectively, we're technically impressive, but we're weak, both physically and mentally. We're too easily bullied or outfought. This needs addressing ASAP, and it's not Maynard's fault.

[durhampie]

I think we should be having this conversation in a few weeks' time once we've played some of the more average L2 sides. Maynard has have a tough run of fixtures, and we were in poor form before LW left. Would we have won any of the games we've lost if LW was still here? I'm not so sure. He needs to turn it around soon though, starting with a win tomorrow.

I agree that our owners won't want to see our crowds drop, but they aren't your emotional, Alan Hardy-esque, knee-jerk types either. They're more likely to give Maynard time and judge him over months, not weeks. I don't see any point in another managerial change before the summer, unless things get really bad.

We also have to question some of the recruitment decisions made. I understand why the club was loyal to the likes of Rawlo, Brindley, and Slocombe, but they aren't good enough to take the club any further. We failed to recruit an adequate keeper or defence, and when we had a chance to sort in January, we went for an inexperienced loanee.

What worries me about our 'philosophy' is that it doesn't seem to account for some of the most important factors in making a team successful - hard work, grit, determination, and so on. Collectively, we're technically impressive, but we're weak, both physically and mentally. We're too easily bullied or outfought. This needs addressing ASAP, and it's not Maynard's fault.

Spot on Slack. Maynard has been left with having to pick up the rubbish left by LW..

[jimmysirrelsmassivetooth]

To be fair to Maynard he was unlikely to get any of his defensive targets in January.
Williams resorted to we'll score one more than the other team and it shows now.

[legs77]

Spot on Slack. Maynard has been left with having to pick up the rubbish left by LW..

You mean by the recruitment team keep pulling you up on this.

Talking of performance LW us in a play off place again remember that too as its a fact.

No point talking about we'd have lost these games under LW lets deal with facts ONLY.

[crazyfists]

I put this on the matchday thread but looks like it's better suited on here:

This certainly looks like heading into the bros first real issue. When they took over we were really happy as we'd just had Munto, Trew and Hardy. They took a couple of managers to find the right one but basically Notts were primed to go up as they could attract great talent for that league, they just needed someone to put it together. LW was a great manager whatever anyone says in my opinion. He would have had more points in the last 6 games than SM. That though is not a dig at SM, whether it's fair or not to say, he's gone from part time whilst working at a small club to working full time at a big club for the level. Also he took over from a popular manager. This transition was never going to be easy and had games coming up against tough opposition. We haven't played badly in all those games but a new man coming in, maybe not trusted by the squad on the whole yet and then loses, can quickly errode confidence which is so massive in football as in all sports and life. A badly performing team can turn into a good team given the right impetus and confidence with the same players.

Now as we all know, if SM doesn't start winning and not only that, play with something about us, then the crowd will turn and/or not come. If this happens then it is the owners first real test. I think that Warnock would have got us up but wouldn't play how they wanted or use some of the players they have. The relationship would probably not have worked unless the bros were willing to concede some views for the greater good then try and implement their wishes again after Warnock wasn't manager anymore.

If the man they picked, doesn't perform and the crowds go down -(plus our position) then how long would SM last as manager? Would the bros stick 100% with their philosophy or maybe change to 70% with concessions to get promoted? We're not going to spend big and get out that way after all.

Of course we could win on Tuesday, go on a ten match winning run and this whole post was a waste of time. Let's hope for the waste of time. COYP

[Jampie]

All three of the brothers' manager picks have been relative nobodies who were severely doubted during their tenure, usually before their first match.

In IB's case he inherited a team that was quite strong for the NL and built on that.

In LW's case he was handed a team that would have been top of the table in the NL by a wide margin in almost any other season.

In SM's case he's inherited a team with deep problems in L2 with key players out injured, a weak defence and what look like motivational issues.

Of the three managers SM's start is against by far the toughest opposition. Not just the higher league but his first six games have been against on average far tougher teams. And the team he had to take into those matches doesn't seem any stronger (yet) than what LW started with in the NL.

LW was not succeeding with our current setup. It is premature to worry things aren't working out with SM. They aren't... yet. I will be surprised if the poor results continue to the end of the season.

What our owners will do is give SM time to make his mark. That will be at least the rest of this season, barring a relegation battle (my guess). If they decide to replace him, the first hint we get will be when they announce the replacement. They aren't going to panic-sack him with nobody lined up to replace him like previous ownership or the owners of other clubs do.

[SmiffyPie]

All three of the brothers' manager picks have been relative nobodies who were severely doubted during their tenure, usually before their first match.

In IB's case he inherited a team that was quite strong for the NL and built on that.

In LW's case he was handed a team that would have been top of the table in the NL by a wide margin in almost any other season.

In SM's case he's inherited a team with deep problems in L2 with key players out injured, a weak defence and what look like motivational issues.

Of the three managers SM's start is against by far the toughest opposition. Not just the higher league but his first six games have been against on average far tougher teams. And the team he had to take into those matches doesn't seem any stronger (yet) than what LW started with in the NL.

LW was not succeeding with our current setup. It is premature to worry things aren't working out with SM. They aren't... yet. I will be surprised if the poor results continue to the end of the season.

What our owners will do is give SM time to make his mark. That will be at least the rest of this season, barring a relegation battle (my guess). If they decide to replace him, the first hint we get will be when they announce the replacement. They aren't going to panic-sack him with nobody lined up to replace him like previous ownership or the owners of other clubs do.The voice of reason. SM has got no choice other than to try combinations to see why we are playing err ... crap! and to try and get a team to perform that has players in a couple of key positions who are not up to L2 and two old boys whose legs aren't what they used to be (one of them never stops trying but is generally not very effective and the other looks to be sulking or can't be arsed). SM should be given a reasonable amount of time to either get the team playing or ship out those that don't want to be professional about things.

[slack_pie]

The voice of reason. SM has got no choice other than to try combinations to see why we are playing err ... crap! and to try and get a team to perform that has players in a couple of key positions who are not up to L2 and two old boys whose legs aren't what they used to be (one of them never stops trying but is generally not very effective and the other looks to be sulking or can't be arsed). SM should be given a reasonable amount of time to either get the team playing or ship out those that don't want to be professional about things.

Totally agree. I think there's a time to get worried and call for a change, but that isn't now. If we continue our poor or even average form between now and the end of the season and finish lower midtable, then perhaps SM isn't the man for the job. But to make that decision after a seven games or so, most of which were against teams that are objectively better than us, seems crazy.

Also, people who call for a manager's head after a few weeks don't think through what that would actually look like to the outside world. It would be like the Notts of old, hiring and firing managers out of desperation because we're not getting promoted quick enough. We'd look like a complete basket case. Quite frankly, it would be embarrassing and a massive red flag for anyone looking at taking the job on next. I'd be very, very worried if our owners did what so many people are asking for.

Given that he's going to be given more time by our very rational owners, why don't we all try and support him. We'll know more about whether he's the man for the job or not in a few months, when we've played more games.

[marky]

People calling for Maynard out already are idiotic, it's far too early and tbh I feel a bit sorry for him, just hope he can get us a few wins. I'm still hoping for the play offs and I expect to be watching the play off final at the end of May, just hope it's not 2 tinpot teams in it if we don't get there.

[JoePass]

Totally agree. I think there's a time to get worried and call for a change, but that isn't now. If we continue our poor or even average form between now and the end of the season and finish lower midtable, then perhaps SM isn't the man for the job. But to make that decision after a seven games or so, most of which were against teams that are objectively better than us, seems crazy.

Also, people who call for a manager's head after a few weeks don't think through what that would actually look like to the outside world. It would be like the Notts of old, hiring and firing managers out of desperation because we're not getting promoted quick enough. We'd look like a complete basket case. Quite frankly, it would be embarrassing and a massive red flag for anyone looking at taking the job on next. I'd be very, very worried if our owners did what so many people are asking for.

Given that he's going to be given more time by our very rational owners, why don't we all try and support him. We'll know more about whether he's the man for the job or not in a few months, when we've played more games.



Totally agree.

[durhampie]

You mean by the recruitment team keep pulling you up on this.

Talking of performance LW us in a play off place again remember that too as its a fact.

No point talking about we'd have lost these games under LW lets deal with facts ONLY.

LW must have had some say in the re-signing of those who played in the NL. It was quite obvious that some of those were not going to be good enough in the EFL.. Surely HE must have known. We are now reaping the results of those signings.. LW was more than happy to go into the league with them, infact he played them virtually every week knowing they were a disaster waiting to happen... Then slings his hook..

[drillerpie]

LW must have had some say in the re-signing of those who played in the NL. It was quite obvious that some of those were not going to be good enough in the EFL.. Surely HE must have known. We are now reaping the results of those signings.. LW was more than happy to go into the league with them, infact he played them virtually every week knowing they were a disaster waiting to happen... Then slings his hook..

We may have actually reaped rewards from that. One of the most convincing explanations I can think of for our drop off in form is that we kept mostly the same players playing with the same patterns while other teams had to wait for their players to gel.

Now they have gelled and we have team with a few NL standard players, we have a problem, but maybe it allowed us to get plenty of points on the board early on.

[legs77]

LW must have had some say in the re-signing of those who played in the NL. It was quite obvious that some of those were not going to be good enough in the EFL.. Surely HE must have known. We are now reaping the results of those signings.. LW was more than happy to go into the league with them, infact he played them virtually every week knowing they were a disaster waiting to happen... Then slings his hook..

He would have had some influence but again the model is about a recruitment team not one person picking the signings.

With 10-12th highest budget what exactly were you expecting ? Its also worth remembering as head man LW has less than 2 years experience.

The fact remains which you have cherry picked and ignored is he was in a play off position.

As for slinging his hook well he had a better offer so what is the problem ? You seem VERY KEEN to tell our UNDER CONTRACT players Nemane Morias Randall they should go so you have it both ways.

[SmiffyPie]

Bit of a double edged sword this recruiting team/LW debate don't you think? Everyone and their blind cat could see the issues looming defensively if we got promoted (let's not argue about that one peps so it was IMO). That asks the question who was responsible for failing, or not trying to replace those players that shall remain nameless? Either the Bros said not to recruit and replace (£££ implications) or LW asked and the recruiting team couldn't find anyone or LW said not to bother it didn't matter? I tend to think it was a board decision and LW just had to get on with it (reinforced by his criticism of the defence just as he was about to move to pastures greener and probably felt free to have a grumble).

[legs77]

Bit of a double edged sword this recruiting team/LW debate don't you think? Everyone and their blind cat could see the issues looming defensively if we got promoted (let's not argue about that one peps so it was IMO). That asks the question who was responsible for failing, or not trying to replace those players that shall remain nameless? Either the Bros said not to recruit and replace (£££ implications) or LW asked and the recruiting team couldn't find anyone or LW said not to bother it didn't matter? I tend to think it was a board decision and LW just had to get on with it (reinforced by his criticism of the defence just as he was about to move to pastures greener and probably felt free to have a grumble).

Its not a debate for me im having to say several times this is the model and its a collective decision.

Some are lumping it all on LW just because he left for a better job.

We signed Langstaff/Scott when we had no head coach so there is proof of how its all done.

It is clearly a board decision as again this is exactly what Brentford/Brighton do.

Frank/De Zerbi = head coach

Klopp/Arteta = manager - They are key men in signings.

[tommopie8]

I don't think we ought to change manager despite my critical post - we've made our bed and now we lie in it.

I don't think they'll change manager mid-season unless we're threatened with relegation in any season. Let alone one they've just appointed.

[nw6pie]

Bit of a double edged sword this recruiting team/LW debate don't you think? Everyone and their blind cat could see the issues looming defensively if we got promoted (let's not argue about that one peps so it was IMO). That asks the question who was responsible for failing, or not trying to replace those players that shall remain nameless? Either the Bros said not to recruit and replace (£££ implications) or LW asked and the recruiting team couldn't find anyone or LW said not to bother it didn't matter? I tend to think it was a board decision and LW just had to get on with it (reinforced by his criticism of the defence just as he was about to move to pastures greener and probably felt free to have a grumble).

We were after Jesse Debrah, no? Strange thing is that we didn’t sign an experienced, 24/25-year-old when that didn’t work out and gambled instead on the rookie from Wolves (and, later, Lewis Macari).

[MAD_MAGPIE]

Totally agree. I think there's a time to get worried and call for a change, but that isn't now. If we continue our poor or even average form between now and the end of the season and finish lower midtable, then perhaps SM isn't the man for the job. But to make that decision after a seven games or so, most of which were against teams that are objectively better than us, seems crazy.

Also, people who call for a manager's head after a few weeks don't think through what that would actually look like to the outside world. It would be like the Notts of old, hiring and firing managers out of desperation because we're not getting promoted quick enough. We'd look like a complete basket case. Quite frankly, it would be embarrassing and a massive red flag for anyone looking at taking the job on next. I'd be very, very worried if our owners did what so many people are asking for.

Given that he's going to be given more time by our very rational owners, why don't we all try and support him. We'll know more about whether he's the man for the job or not in a few months, when we've played more games.

I totally agree. To add what I said further up the thread about Stockport and Barrow who are also showing relegation form in the last six games they have not played the current 1st, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th and 16th (currently Newport who are 2nd in the form table) and yet Stockport are 19th, Barrow 22nd and us 21st. Stuart Maynard has had the toughest six games any new manager could have had at this level. I don't think Dave Challinor or Pete Wild jobs are at risk based on the last six games and neither should Stuart Maynard's.

Below is a comparison between LW and SM as well with results against those six teams. They are very close the only difference being the Gillingham game which LW won and SM lost. All the other games had the same outcome results wise and the goals scored and goals conceded are within one goal. That is why it's far too premature and early to be judging SM.

For what it's worth I don't think LW could have done much better as it was proven by the results against these teams in the first half of the season. It really is fine margins.

Luke Williams = P6, W2, D1, L3, GF7, GA9, GD-2, Pts 7

Mansfield 1-4 (Lost) = 0 points
Crewe 0-1 (Lost) = 0 points
Wrexham 0-2 (Lost) = 0 points
Barrow 1-1 (Drew) = 1 point
Gillingham 2-1 (Won) = 3 points
Newport 3-0 (Won) = 3 points

Stuart Maynard = P6, W1, D1, L4, GF6, GA10, GD-4, Pts 4

Mansfield 0-1 (Lost) 0 points
Crewe 1-3 (Lost) 0 points
Wrexham 0-1 (Lost) 0 points
Barrow 1-1 (Drew) 1 point
Gillingham 1-3 (Lost) 0 points
Newport 3-1 (Won) 3 points

[BigFatPie]

I totally agree. To add what I said further up the thread about Stockport and Barrow who are also showing relegation form in the last six games they have not played the current 1st, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th and 16th (currently Newport who are 2nd in the form table) and yet Stockport are 19th, Barrow 22nd and us 21st. Stuart Maynard has had the toughest six games any new manager could have had at this level. I don't think Dave Challinor or Pete Wild jobs are at risk based on the last six games and neither should Stuart Maynard's.

Below is a comparison between LW and SM as well with results against those six teams. They are very close the only difference being the Gillingham game which LW won and SM lost. All the other games had the same outcome results wise and the goals scored and goals conceded are within one goal. That is why it's far too premature and early to be judging SM.

For what it's worth I don't think LW could have done much better as it was proven by the results against these teams in the first half of the season. It really is fine margins.

Luke Williams = P6, W2, D1, L3, GF7, GA9, GD-2, Pts 7

Mansfield 1-4 (Lost) = 0 points
Crewe 0-1 (Lost) = 0 points
Wrexham 0-2 (Lost) = 0 points
Barrow 1-1 (Drew) = 1 point
Gillingham 2-1 (Won) = 3 points
Newport 3-0 (Won) = 3 points

Stuart Maynard = P6, W1, D1, L4, GF6, GA10, GD-4, Pts 4

Mansfield 0-1 (Lost) 0 points
Crewe 1-3 (Lost) 0 points
Wrexham 0-1 (Lost) 0 points
Barrow 1-1 (Drew) 1 point
Gillingham 1-3 (Lost) 0 points
Newport 3-1 (Won) 3 points

He has had a tough start, but I think most people’s issues are specifically with the two home defeats, the two worst home performances of the season in my book. If you don’t think we’d have played better/got better results in those under Williams then I’d disagree, but regardless, his job is to improve us, and so far… he hasn’t.

[Jampie]

For what it's worth I don't think LW could have done much better as it was proven by the results against these teams in the first half of the season. It really is fine margins.

Luke Williams = P6, W2, D1, L3, GF7, GA9, GD-2, Pts 7

Mansfield 1-4 (Lost) = 0 points
Crewe 0-1 (Lost) = 0 points
Wrexham 0-2 (Lost) = 0 points
Barrow 1-1 (Drew) = 1 point
Gillingham 2-1 (Won) = 3 points
Newport 3-0 (Won) = 3 points

Stuart Maynard = P6, W1, D1, L4, GF6, GA10, GD-4, Pts 4

Mansfield 0-1 (Lost) 0 points
Crewe 1-3 (Lost) 0 points
Wrexham 0-1 (Lost) 0 points
Barrow 1-1 (Drew) 1 point
Gillingham 1-3 (Lost) 0 points
Newport 3-1 (Won) 3 points

Did not Luke also have Palmer at the time? Our performances fell off a cliff when he got injured IIRC.

[Lullapie]

I totally agree. To add what I said further up the thread about Stockport and Barrow who are also showing relegation form in the last six games they have not played the current 1st, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th and 16th (currently Newport who are 2nd in the form table) and yet Stockport are 19th, Barrow 22nd and us 21st. Stuart Maynard has had the toughest six games any new manager could have had at this level. I don't think Dave Challinor or Pete Wild jobs are at risk based on the last six games and neither should Stuart Maynard's.

Below is a comparison between LW and SM as well with results against those six teams. They are very close the only difference being the Gillingham game which LW won and SM lost. All the other games had the same outcome results wise and the goals scored and goals conceded are within one goal. That is why it's far too premature and early to be judging SM.

For what it's worth I don't think LW could have done much better as it was proven by the results against these teams in the first half of the season. It really is fine margins.

Luke Williams = P6, W2, D1, L3, GF7, GA9, GD-2, Pts 7

Mansfield 1-4 (Lost) = 0 points
Crewe 0-1 (Lost) = 0 points
Wrexham 0-2 (Lost) = 0 points
Barrow 1-1 (Drew) = 1 point
Gillingham 2-1 (Won) = 3 points
Newport 3-0 (Won) = 3 points

Stuart Maynard = P6, W1, D1, L4, GF6, GA10, GD-4, Pts 4

Mansfield 0-1 (Lost) 0 points
Crewe 1-3 (Lost) 0 points
Wrexham 0-1 (Lost) 0 points
Barrow 1-1 (Drew) 1 point
Gillingham 1-3 (Lost) 0 points
Newport 3-1 (Won) 3 points

Great work :) are you after UTM's job?

[MAD_MAGPIE]

Great work :) are you after UTM's job?

XD No. With it being a results business I was interested in what the results were between both managers. It was surprising how similar they were and how close in terms of goals.

Tonight I'm really hoping we can get the win because we lost this game 5-1 under LW and SM really needs his first home win.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

He has had a tough start, but I think most people’s issues are specifically with the two home defeats, the two worst home performances of the season in my book. If you don’t think we’d have played better/got better results in those under Williams then I’d disagree, but regardless, his job is to improve us, and so far… he hasn’t.

The performances at home to both Gillingham and Crewe were very disappointing and were littered with individual errors. I too was angry, annoyed and frustrated particularly against Crewe. So I can understand peoples issues in that respect especially as it's not something we've seen in the past four seasons. It's going to remind us of the relegation season.

[MapperleyMagpie]

Please please Reedz bros admit a mistake has been made and sack him

[keldsyke]

Please please Reedz bros admit a mistake has been made and sack him

I’m afraid there’s a lot of questions about the owners and their recruitment of manager and players to be asked, I’m afraid they are looking out of their depth regarding matters on the pitch and the underestimation of this league, well done Sutton on taking advantage of the situation. Lucky we have picked up enough points do far to be safe, to say we haven’t won at home this year is shocking.

[marky]

What the hell have you done Reez brothers?

[uysapie]

What the hell have you done Reez brothers?

Fecked it up.

[OchPie]

Did not Luke also have Palmer at the time? Our performances fell off a cliff when he got injured IIRC.

For me LW's greatest failing is that he wasn't able to move us from a play setup with Palmer, that generally worked very well, to one without him. There were plenty of attempts to fill in and adjust for the loss of him, but fundamentally we were never able to play and win games in the same way - and LW never fully worked out how to set up and win consistently without him. (And the players he was carrying by being everwhere on the pitch when we were out of possession were suddenly shown up, too.)

SM is now doing everything he can to adjust, including (it seems) big changes mid-game. On the one hand you hope that he's very quickly learning and that will translate into some stability for the run-in. On the other hand, it's never clear to me whether he makes adjustments just to see what works, or if he's trying to chase games (and if the latter, he's doing himself a big disservice in my view). Neither fans nor players seem very happy right now. He can lose the Kop, though it won't help with revenue or performances to do so; if he's losing the players then all this switching around won't yield what he wants.

We seem a team with confidence completely shot. But it's hard for anyone involved to stomach losing 5 in 7. I think if we don't get a win in the next few games, there just won't be the foundations he needs to build on and be successful, including next season. It's bitterly disappointing after Newport.

[irishpete]

Please please Reedz bros admit a mistake has been made and sack him

Their inexperience in ownership is starting to show. They need to grab the bull by the horns. They have let the defence frailties go on from day 1. Recruitment some good some absolutely shocking. At present we are a sinking ship & their investment needs changes or their stock is going to fall sharply

[LaxtonLad]

We have appointed a complete novice to manage a club which has certain players sulking over the loss of their favourite manager, some of these players heve never had a better one than LW nor had as much success. Unless we had brought in a manager with experience of league football, perhaps only been an assistant manager? Someone who was not a learner? Then these disjointed displays from the players was almost bound to happen. So rarely has a novice football manager successfully adapted from being a part timer to a position so obviously high above his experience.

SM has lost the Kop, there are grumblings from the Pavis, the visiting fans are ecstatic in their eager anticipation, and who knows what the players think of him.

We have seen the results of his random tinkering with players and their positions, does anyone think he's learning? Do the players look happy? Will he wiil continue fiddling? Is there any point in allowing him to carry on learning "on the job" as it were?

[Notts78]

The sound bites at the weekend were that we need to defend the box better. Yet somehow we managed to be worse at that.
Last night was as insipid as anything we saw in our relegation season. No heart for the battle.
This isn’t an SM failure… it’s a culture within the club. We have recruited on players abilities with the ball rather than some of the other key attributes required. That is from the keeper to our forwards. You bring players off the bench to change games but in our squad they are generally clones of what we already have in the starting 11.
In my day there were 2 types of footballer - piano shifters and piano players. We have a group of blokes wanting to be players. You need a balance of both.

[Bohinen]

For what it's worth I don't think LW could have done much better as it was proven by the results against these teams in the first half of the season. It really is fine margins.

Luke Williams = P6, W2, D1, L3, GF7, GA9, GD-2, Pts 7

Mansfield 1-4 (Lost) = 0 points
Crewe 0-1 (Lost) = 0 points
Wrexham 0-2 (Lost) = 0 points
Barrow 1-1 (Drew) = 1 point
Gillingham 2-1 (Won) = 3 points
Newport 3-0 (Won) = 3 points

Stuart Maynard = P6, W1, D1, L4, GF6, GA10, GD-4, Pts 4

Mansfield 0-1 (Lost) 0 points
Crewe 1-3 (Lost) 0 points
Wrexham 0-1 (Lost) 0 points
Barrow 1-1 (Drew) 1 point
Gillingham 1-3 (Lost) 0 points
Newport 3-1 (Won) 3 points

Those stats are not from a run of games though, LW had some big wins mixed in with that lot. But ignoring that ....

Project 7 points from 6 games and 4 points from 6 games over a season and see what those 'fine margins' do for you.

53 points plays 30 points. Last season that would have meant 19th versus 24th, bottom and relegation.

[maddogslater]

Footballers are like school children, bore them to death and they'll mess about or fall asleep 😴
Luke was like the jovial headmaster but with his cane in one hand.

[slack_pie]

The sound bites at the weekend were that we need to defend the box better. Yet somehow we managed to be worse at that.
Last night was as insipid as anything we saw in our relegation season. No heart for the battle.
This isn’t an SM failure… it’s a culture within the club. We have recruited on players abilities with the ball rather than some of the other key attributes required. That is from the keeper to our forwards. You bring players off the bench to change games but in our squad they are generally clones of what we already have in the starting 11.
In my day there were 2 types of footballer - piano shifters and piano players. We have a group of blokes wanting to be players. You need a balance of both.

100%. Our current recruitment policy leaves the squad with huge deficiencies. We literally can't do the very basics when it comes to defending. We're a bit like a karate kid doing fancy twirling kicks and then coming up against a heavyweight boxer who just floors us with a simple swing of his arm. We need to be tougher, and we need to recruit with that in mind.

[legs77]

Those stats are not from a run of games though, LW had some big wins mixed in with that lot. But ignoring that ....

Project 7 points from 6 games and 4 points from 6 games over a season and see what those 'fine margins' do for you.

53 points plays 30 points. Last season that would have meant 19th versus 24th, bottom and relegation.

Exactly LW is getting 40/45% more points in this sample size HUGE difference.

Now what LW did was keep it simple for himself/players and had confidence in what he was doing.

SM clearly has doubts and as ive mentioned recently keeps changing things too often which can confuse players as there is no drill or clarity.

I know he has only had 7 games and he'll get the sesson but for me the confidence in the players and fans is shot.

[WarsopPie]

Exactly LW is getting 40/45% more points in this sample size HUGE difference.

Now what LW did was keep it simple for himself/players and had confidence in what he was doing.

SM clearly has doubts and as ive mentioned recently keeps changing things too often which can confuse players as there is no drill or clarity.

I know he has only had 7 games and he'll get the sesson but for me the confidence in the players and fans is shot.

He’s had 7 weeks and still **** if anything he’s taking us backwards since 7 week ago.
In my trade/profession if I was to move company and train on a new printing press even though I’m a printer I’d be given 6 weeks I was told where iam now if I couldn’t get to grips I’d be gone so he’s had long enough.

[slack_pie]

In hindsight, we should have given JOB more time in the role. He's actually qualified, loves the club, and has the respect of the players and fans. It would be good experience for him to either take the role full time or become a part of our coaching staff in general.

[legs77]

In hindsight, we should have given JOB more time in the role. He's actually qualified, loves the club, and has the respect of the players and fans. It would be good experience for him to either take the role full time or become a part of our coaching staff in general.

Maybe but he doesnt have the experience of leading a team SM did.

If JOB had the same results fans would kick off big time saying cheap option etc.

The owners are currently the best and most important part of this club.

SM looks out of his depth but if the owners go we are bang in trouble.

[the_anticlough]

Maybe but he doesnt have the experience of leading a team SM did.

If JOB had the same results fans would kick off big time saying cheap option etc.

The owners are currently the best and most important part of this club.

SM looks out of his depth but if the owners go we are bang in trouble.

Alves and Weal as caretakers til end of season would be fine by me

[meltonpye]

Having worked so hard to get a regular saturday 5 figure crowd ,any indication that is in jeopardy will mean action being taken.Yesterdays home crowd was 800 down on Barrow and Tuesday will be the seasons lowest.I came away depressed and i wont be alone.I think the manager is already at risk.

was at the game saturday, the performance was dreadful and said to myself i dont think i will bother tuesday. then when i saw the team selection i decided i had made the correct call. the team was very similar to the first fixture when we were hammered 5-1. Sutton must have thought it was christmas all over again and were very confident of getting a result. why was Macari left out he was one of the better players on Saturday. It was a Luke Williams team and we have been found out and too easy to play against. Come on Stuart Maynard pick your own team lets go back to a basic 4-4-2 and make us hard to score against and that includes a target man to give the defence an outlet instead of giving the ball away with stupid short passing on the edge of our penalty area. We are not a Manchester City so lets play a system our players are comfortable with. Then i may consider using my season ticket again

[matt_magpie]

was at the game saturday, the performance was dreadful and said to myself i dont think i will bother tuesday. then when i saw the team selection i decided i had made the correct call. the team was very similar to the first fixture when we were hammered 5-1. Sutton must have thought it was christmas all over again and were very confident of getting a result. why was Macari left out he was one of the better players on Saturday. It was a Luke Williams team and we have been found out and too easy to play against. Come on Stuart Maynard pick your own team lets go back to a basic 4-4-2 and make us hard to score against and that includes a target man to give the defence an outlet instead of giving the ball away with stupid short passing on the edge of our penalty area. We are not a Manchester City so let’s play a system our players are comfortable with. Then i may consider using my season ticket again

I think he has to go back to the 4 at the back now just to try and tighten us up, we looked immense at Newport, one of the best displays all season, Jones looked brilliant on the right even though some are calling for him to be on the left, he use to play on the right before us.
Could be worth putting Chicksen in at left back and Macari right, I’d keep Baldwin for now and then a toss up between Warner and Rawlinson. We have to get a hard beat mentality now even if it costs us going forward because the team need the confidence now they just can’t be rolled over.

[Kent Magpie]

Which target man is that? McGoldrick? Jatta? I don't think either is particularly effective as target men. Macca or Crowley? Not really their game either, so I don't think hoofball will work to be honest, or be a system we are comfortable with... the defence may be, but the attack will fall apart. Maybe we will find out at the weekend as I gather Valley Parade is a bit of a ploughed field.

We need to be better at understanding when Row Z is the option, a forward, sideways or backward pass is the best option and play accordingly. We need to understand that Row Z isn't always giving the ball to the opposition, but a way of allowing us to regroup and reset. I think a return to what worked at Newport would be a good start.

[jackal2]

Which target man is that? McGoldrick? Jatta? I don't think either is particularly effective as target men. Macca or Crowley? Not really their game either, so I don't think hoofball will work to be honest, or be a system we are comfortable with... the defence may be, but the attack will fall apart. Maybe we will find out at the weekend as I gather Valley Parade is a bit of a ploughed field.

We need to be better at understanding when Row Z is the option, a forward, sideways or backward pass is the best option and play accordingly. We need to understand that Row Z isn't always giving the ball to the opposition, but a way of allowing us to regroup and reset. I think a return to what worked at Newport would be a good start.

Neil Warnock had it right. Play as much football as you like in the opponent's half, but get the ball out of your own half as soon as possible. That doesn't mean lumping it to the man up front, especially if he's not a natural target man, but it does mean playing the minimal number of passes necessary in your own half to get it accurately to an outlet upfield, be that striker, winger or midfielder. We're guilty of playing a lot of completely pointless passes across our backline, and to many 'to you, to me' passes, which means sooner a later a mistake will happen, especially if your central defenders can't concentrate for 90 minutes.

[durhampie]

Which target man is that? McGoldrick? Jatta? I don't think either is particularly effective as target men. Macca or Crowley? Not really their game either, so I don't think hoofball will work to be honest, or be a system we are comfortable with... the defence may be, but the attack will fall apart. Maybe we will find out at the weekend as I gather Valley Parade is a bit of a ploughed field.

We need to be better at understanding when Row Z is the option, a forward, sideways or backward pass is the best option and play accordingly. We need to understand that Row Z isn't always giving the ball to the opposition, but a way of allowing us to regroup and reset. I think a return to what worked at Newport would be a good start.

The sooner we get Scott back the better.. At least he knows how to play with Macca..

[jackal2]

The sooner we get Scott back the better.. At least he knows how to play with Macca..

It really concerns me that we've not extended Cedwyn Scott's contract yet. He's one currently injured player I would gamble upon. I think he's a very underrated player, purely because Macauley Langstaff's record eclipses all others. Scott's goal return is very respectable and he brings a bit of physicality too.

[Kent Magpie]

Neil Warnock had it right. Play as much football as you like in the opponent's half, but get the ball out of your own half as soon as possible. That doesn't mean lumping it to the man up front, especially if he's not a natural target man, but it does mean playing the minimal number of passes necessary in your own half to get it accurately to an outlet upfield, be that striker, winger or midfielder. We're guilty of playing a lot of completely pointless passes across our backline, and to many 'to you, to me' passes, which means sooner a later a mistake will happen, especially if your central defenders can't concentrate for 90 minutes.

It's the hoof it forwards to the big target man approach I am arguing against as we aren't set up for it. Moving the ball forwards with purpose is a perfectly good tactic, and passing it around the back works in certain scenarios and putting it in the stands is OK too (which I think our defence seem to avoid at all costs). It's knowing when to deploy each option and I think our team defaults to passing it around the back regardless of the game conditions and opposition. As a result we put pressure on the defence who make mistakes, and we rely too heavily on one or two players to make it work.

It's all about what Clive Woodward used to call TCUP - Thinking Clearly Under Pressure. At the moment we don't do this.

[durhampie]

It really concerns me that we've not extended Cedwyn Scott's contract yet. He's one currently injured player I would gamble upon. I think he's a very underrated player, purely because Macauley Langstaff's record eclipses all others. Scott's goal return is very respectable and he brings a bit of physicality too.

I will be very disappointed too if they dont give him a new contract, especially after giving the likes of Morias and Co. 3yr contracts.
But onto the main topic. I believe the owners HAVE taken a massive risk in not strengthening the team when they had the opportunity. The cost of falling attendances will outweigh any idea they may have had by thinking we could get promoted again, by doing things on the cheap.. It was a massive gamble, that will/has backfire financially big time...

[SwalePie]

The sooner we get Scott back the better.. At least he knows how to play with Macca..

He'd probably end up in goal.

[legs77]

It really concerns me that we've not extended Cedwyn Scott's contract yet. He's one currently injured player I would gamble upon. I think he's a very underrated player, purely because Macauley Langstaff's record eclipses all others. Scott's goal return is very respectable and he brings a bit of physicality too.

Let’s wait and see how he returns first he like Bajami and Palmer have had bad injuries you can’t just go giving out contracts if he isn’t up to the standard.

We need to be cold/smart going forward there is no time for sentiment.

[legs77]

I will be very disappointed too if they dont give him a new contract, especially after giving the likes of Morias and Co. 3yr contracts.
But onto the main topic. I believe the owners HAVE taken a massive risk in not strengthening the team when they had the opportunity. The cost of falling attendances will outweigh any idea they may have had by thinking we could get promoted again, by doing things on the cheap.. It was a massive gamble, that will/has backfire financially big time...

You can only spend so much of your turnover abit like FFP so what do we do if we are close to that figure ? Go over it and get points deducted that isn’t very clever is it the way we are now losing on a regular basis !

[matt_magpie]

Let’s wait and see how he returns first he like Bajami and Palmer have had bad injuries you can’t just go giving out contracts if he isn’t up to the standard.

We need to be cold/smart going forward there is no time for sentiment.

Exactly we don’t even know for sure he can do it at L2 standard, I like to think he could and obviously need to see how he gets over his injury.