Worst Notts County manager ever

[Woodypie]

Well, I would say Maynard is in top five since I started following Notts in 1981. Others? Larry Lloyd, Fullerton, Sheridan, Kewell and Ardley. Also big mention for Kendall, who may even knock Maynard out of top five worst ever.

[queenslandpie]

Fullarton will take some beating. Maynard is having a go but he's way ahead of Fullarton.

[ThaiPie]

Perhaps we should focus on recruitment.

In Stuart Maynard's post match interview he said "we're not equipped" , to deal with high balls and long throws. I.E. We don't have the right players for Division 2 defending. I think I, along with every other poster on this board we have been saying this all season. So maybe you can focus on the recruitment team, rather than prematurely trying to rate SM.

Currently, Managing Notts is like rock climbing in flip flops. There are going to be slip-ups.



Edit: Is this the smallest Notts County team - Ever?

[Davy500]

Fullarton will take some beating. Maynard is having a go but he's way ahead of Fullarton.

Is Maynard way ahead of Fullarton??
Well both Managers in League 2 , so the same level, and both appointed in January

Fullarton P 12 W 3 D 1 L 8 Total Points 10
Maynard P 8 W 1 D 1 L 6 Total Points 4

So in order for Maynard to be better than Fullarton in the next 4 games, Maynard must get 7 points - which for me seems unlikely

[Could'vebeenacontender]

Perhaps we should focus on recruitment.

In Stuart Maynard's post match interview he said "we're not equipped" , to deal with high balls and long throws. I.E. We don't have the right players for Division 2 defending. I think I, along with every other poster on this board we have been saying this all season. So maybe you can focus on the recruitment team, rather than prematurely trying to rate SM.

Currently, Managing Notts is like rock climbing in flip flops. There are going to be slip-ups.



Edit: Is this the smallest Notts County team - Ever?

Spot on
We've all known it all season and of course every other team in L2 knows it now as we can see from the way opponents play against us week after week

[since41]

Well, I would say Maynard is in top five since I started following Notts in 1981. Others? Larry Lloyd, Fullerton, Sheridan, Kewell and Ardley. Also big mention for Kendall, who may even knock Maynard out of top five worst ever.

Top of the real Division 1 for a few days with Larry Lloyd I doubt we will ever see that again so i would take him out the top worse managers list for that alone.

[upthemaggies]

Based on PPG (and not including caretakers who were in charge for 1 or 2 games and lost it/both) Maynard is currently the 2nd worst of all time on 0.50.

For worse than Maynard you have to go back precisely 90 years (1934) to a guy called Charlie Jones whose PPG is 0.41 with a record of Pld:17 W:1 D:4 L:12. However he was up against the likes of West Ham, Fword, Sheff U and Newcastle United in tier 2. At 4th tier level Maynard is currently the worst of all time.

[andy6025]

I remember things being especially bad under Wombat. His stats were P34 W9 D9 L16 W26.5% PPG 1.06, which aren’t nearly as bad in comparison.

[upthemaggies]

All time managers PPG table (league and play offs only, does not include Caretakers)

2.50 Steve Cotterill
2.07 Luke Williams
2.00 David Kevan (2)
1.98 Jimmy McMullan
1.73 Ian Burchnall
1.71 Jimmy Sirrel
1.69 Keith Curle
1.62 Jimmy Sirrel (4)
1.53 Frank Broome
1.53 Kevin Nolan
1.52 Neil Warnock
1.50 Sam Allardyce
1.50 John Barnwell
1.49 Neal Ardley
1.47 Jocky Scott
1.46 Frank Hill
1.46 Ron Fenton
1.46 Arthur Stollery
1.45 Tim Coleman (2)
1.43 Colin Murphy
1.42 Eric Houghton
1.42 Tim Coleman (3)
1.42 Andy Beattie
1.40 Mick Walker
1.38 Percy Smith
1.38 Albert Fisher
1.36 Wilf Fisher
1.34 Horace Henshall
1.34 Jimmy Sirrel (2)
1.33 Jack Wheeler
1.30 Committee
1.30 Martin Allen
1.29 Hans Backe
1.28 Steve Thompson
1.27 Harry Parkes
1.26 Jack Burkitt
1.25 Gary Brazil
1.24 Howard Wilkinson
1.23 Craig Short
1.23 George Poyser
1.21 Ricardo Moniz
1.21 Shaun Derry
1.18 Harry Kewell
1.17 Ian Richardson
1.14 Howard Kendall
1.13 Gudjon Thordarson
1.13 Ian McParland
1.13 Committee (2)
1.12 Billy Dearden
1.10 Billy Gray
1.10 Mark Cooper
1.08 Paul Ince
1.03 Gary Mills
1.00 Tommy Lawton
1.00 Eddie Lowe
0.97 Chris Kiwomya
0.92 John Sheridan
0.89 Larry Lloyd
0.83 Jamie Fullarton
0.83 Richie Barker
0.72 Russell Slade
0.57 Gary Brazil (2)
0.50 Stuart Maynard
0.41 Charlie Jones

[marky]

Gary Mills is the correct answer. The likes of Fullarton, Kewell and Kiwomya weren't in charge long enough but were all very bad as well.

[TSANHO]

All time managers PPG table (league and play offs only, does not include Caretakers)

2.50 Steve Cotterill
2.07 Luke Williams
2.00 David Kevan (2)
1.98 Jimmy McMullan
1.73 Ian Burchnall
1.71 Jimmy Sirrel
1.69 Keith Curle
1.62 Jimmy Sirrel (4)
1.53 Frank Broome
1.53 Kevin Nolan
1.52 Neil Warnock
1.50 Sam Allardyce
1.50 John Barnwell
1.49 Neal Ardley
1.47 Jocky Scott
1.46 Frank Hill
1.46 Ron Fenton
1.46 Arthur Stollery
1.45 Tim Coleman (2)
1.43 Colin Murphy
1.42 Eric Houghton
1.42 Tim Coleman (3)
1.42 Andy Beattie
1.40 Mick Walker
1.38 Percy Smith
1.38 Albert Fisher
1.36 Wilf Fisher
1.34 Horace Henshall
1.34 Jimmy Sirrel (2)
1.33 Jack Wheeler
1.30 Committee
1.30 Martin Allen
1.29 Hans Backe
1.28 Steve Thompson
1.27 Harry Parkes
1.26 Jack Burkitt
1.25 Gary Brazil
1.24 Howard Wilkinson
1.23 Craig Short
1.23 George Poyser
1.21 Ricardo Moniz
1.21 Shaun Derry
1.18 Harry Kewell
1.17 Ian Richardson
1.14 Howard Kendall
1.13 Gudjon Thordarson
1.13 Ian McParland
1.13 Committee (2)
1.12 Billy Dearden
1.10 Billy Gray
1.10 Mark Cooper
1.08 Paul Ince
1.03 Gary Mills
1.00 Tommy Lawton
1.00 Eddie Lowe
0.97 Chris Kiwomya
0.92 John Sheridan
0.89 Larry Lloyd
0.83 Jamie Fullarton
0.83 Richie Barker
0.72 Russell Slade
0.57 Gary Brazil (2)
0.50 Stuart Maynard
0.41 Charlie Jones

Wow. He’s keeping some special company there.

The bros have got this one wrong. When LW left we needed more of an impact manager to see the season through and galvanise the players whilst we spread the net out for someone to fit the philosophy long term. We needed some experience and charisma, instead we got a seemingly nice bloke who can probably coach but does not at all come over as much of a great leader and communicator.

He does speak sense in his interviews but they are so mundane and irritating that I can’t bear more than a few minutes. Imagine listening to it all week. Now we’re stuck, what do the owners do? We’ve a squad with players clearly not up to scratch, many with another year on their contracts, and a manager out of his depth.

The owners will probably not pull the trigger just yet but will be re-evaluating their decisions and searching for possible replacements if the next three to four games show no improvement.

[Bohinen]

Top of the real Division 1 for a few days with Larry Lloyd I doubt we will ever see that again so i would take him out the top worse managers list for that alone.

Much as I disliked Larry Lloyd at the time, he did have a promotion with Wigan under his belt before he joined Notts. After that he became the obese bar owner and loudmouth radio pundit many will remember him as, but briefly he was an actual manager. He may have been OK in the lower leagues but he was not suitable for what was then a top flight club.

So for me, SM is lower than Lloyd. He is on a par with Fullarton for being the most illogical appointment ever. The others at least had some pedigree, Howard Kendall especially.

[jackal2]

Perhaps we should focus on recruitment.

In Stuart Maynard's post match interview he said "we're not equipped" , to deal with high balls and long throws. I.E. We don't have the right players for Division 2 defending. I think I, along with every other poster on this board we have been saying this all season. So maybe you can focus on the recruitment team, rather than prematurely trying to rate SM.

Currently, Managing Notts is like rock climbing in flip flops. There are going to be slip-ups.

Edit: Is this the smallest Notts County team - Ever?

We've recruited plenty of good players, the latest being Scott Robertson, but you're still absolutely right.

We're very short (literally) of players who can dominate our own penalty box and lead a defensive line. If you have a Graeme Lee/Garry Strodder type of centre-half in the box yesterday then they take up the right position, win the key headers, and you don't concede either of those goals. Connell Rawlinson is the closest thing we've got in terms of physical stature, but I'm afraid that first goal yesterday endorsed the arguments of those saying he's simply not good enough for this level.

The second goal was another example of a team hitting the ball to the back stick to target the area often occupied by Aaron Nemane, who is tiny, not very good at heading, and should be nowhere near the six yard box in those situations. He's never going to win the ball, in fact the biggest risk is that he gets in the way of one of (few) bigger players who potentially could try to put in a meaningful challenge.

[upthemaggies]

Gary Mills is the correct answer. The likes of Fullarton, Kewell and Kiwomya weren't in charge long enough but were all very bad as well.

Managers who get the club relegated and then continue to fail at the lower level are a special kind of 'special' and do need singling out. Add Eddie Lowe to Lloyd and Mills. Also Ardley, for although he has a relatively high PPG, that was in tier 5 which also accounts for Burchnall's high placing.

[Dinno_Pie]

Firstly, I’ve got to say looking at that list, have I really witnessed so much dross in my 50+ years watching Notts ! But I must say a lot of those managers were when Notts were at higher levels, so had much tougher challenges with the gulf in Notts budgets compared to the competition increasing with each higher division. The likes of Jimmy Sirrel and Neil Warnock actually managed Notts in the top tier (apologies to any of you out there under 40 who can only dream of that).

So I think for that list to be of true comparison and in context maybe it should only include performance at tiers 3&4 when Notts budgets were far closer to their opposition. Apart from our fake Munto season which should really disqualify Cotterill as top performer. And let’s not forget LW record was in the 5th tier when Notts had a higher budget than most and were playing a number of semi-pro teams. His average was 1.61 in Lg2.

As for SM, depends on whether he gets a chance to improve his position in the list. Can’t have been easy for him stepping up into the fickle fully professional football world and inheriting a squad who were showing signs of running out of steam under LW. I’m sure he’s doing his best and could do with his more senior experienced players stepping up rather than moping. I’m hoping for him, our owners and us all that he turns it round.

[jimmysirrelsmassivetooth]

I thought it was a massive risk when Maynard was appointed.
Done nothing of note in his career and it appears my suspicions were correct.
Absolute rammel.

[1955pie]

Managers who get the club relegated and then continue to fail at the lower level are a special kind of 'special' and do need singling out. Add Eddie Lowe to Lloyd and Mills. Also Ardley, for although he has a relatively high PPG, that was in tier 5 which also accounts for Burchnall's high placing.

And Williams.

[nw6pie]

I thought it was a massive risk when Maynard was appointed.
Done nothing of note in his career and it appears my suspicions were correct.
Absolute rammel.

How many outstanding candidates were there out there? If Mike Williamson were still at Gateshead, he’s have been a shoo-in for the job (if he wanted it), and he’s now doing a great job at Franchise FC (alas). The guy at Crawley would have been my preferred choice, but may have been tough to get.

The way things are going, we may be having the same speculation about a new manager in a few months anyway.

[Kent Magpie]

I don’t think it matters now what happens. Even if we win the last 11 games, storm the playoffs and go up, the good will has gone and the first sign of problems would bring all the old arguments out again. Worst manager our not, I don’t see any future for SM at Notts, the fans won’t have it.

[ForeignLegion]

I don’t think it matters now what happens. Even if we win the last 11 games, storm the playoffs and go up, the good will has gone and the first sign of problems would bring all the old arguments out again. Worst manager our not, I don’t see any future for SM at Notts, the fans won’t have it.

Of course they’ll have it if that scenario happens. What you mean is, you’ve made up your mind, and you won’t have it.

[Kent Magpie]

Of course they’ll have it if that scenario happens. What you mean is, you’ve made up your mind, and you won’t have it.
Actually, I think he could turn it around if he’s given time. He seems to see the problems, he’s prepared to try things and as I said elsewhere, our style requires a lot of practice and new patterns will take time to bed in, but I understand everyone else’s mind is made up and you don’t come back from that.

[jackal2]

I don’t think it matters now what happens. Even if we win the last 11 games, storm the playoffs and go up, the good will has gone and the first sign of problems would bring all the old arguments out again. Worst manager our not, I don’t see any future for SM at Notts, the fans won’t have it.

That's far too bleak. Fans are fickle both ways.

To quote your words, if we won the last 11 games, stormed the play-offs and went up, with the squad as it is, the fans would be singing Stuart Maynard's praises from the rooftops and the critics would be so deep in their worm holes you wouldn't be able to see them.

Now granted, they would soon surface again if we lost the next few games after that. It happened with Luke Williams even after his incredible achievements, and to Warnock back in the day, but sadly that's football fans for you. It's why club owners shouldn't be swayed too much by fans' petulant, childlike short-term mood swings. That's where Trew and Hardy went wrong.

I'm not saying for one moment that I think Maynard will go on the run of wins you're using as an example - it would be astonishing in the current context. My view is that SM has clearly had a very poor start and he desperately needs some better results soon, otherwise the owners will indeed begin having as many doubts as the fans, but as a Notts supporter I really hope Stuart Maynard can turn things around.

Why would anyone who calls themselves a Notts County fan want anything else? A win tomorrow night alone would lighten the mood a little.

[OldMagpie60]

How many outstanding candidates were there out there? If Mike Williamson were still at Gateshead, he’s have been a shoo-in for the job (if he wanted it), and he’s now doing a great job at Franchise FC (alas). The guy at Crawley would have been my preferred choice, but may have been tough to get.

The way things are going, we may be having the same speculation about a new manager in a few months anyway.

SM is a nice guy and I think he can probably coach a decent system, but the big issue is that loads of data analysis doesn’t get you a manager who can motivate quality players like JJ and McGoldrick and one who has the respect of the squad. That takes proper leadership and good decisions based on experience. The Bros have got this one very wrong. We need an LW upgrade not an LW trainee.
Yes players need to take responsibility but owners need to appoint the next step up, not a rookie who’s never won anything and has no EFL experience. I doubt any of the players were impressed by SM’s appointment and they all now know the game is up - it’s human nature.
We won’t get promotion with SM ever and so the Bros’ need to swallow their pride and get a an experienced caretaker in who can protect our position for next year in terms keeping the good players and retaining good crowds before it’s too late.
It’s sad for SM as he’s a genuine bloke but he’s the wrong man, wrong time, wrong place. He’s reduced the goals conceded slightly but blunted our attack and killed the feel good factor. You can see it on the players faces.

[Elite_Pie]

I don’t think it matters now what happens. Even if we win the last 11 games, storm the playoffs and go up, the good will has gone.

Couldn't disagree more, if that happened the goodwill would be 100%.


the first sign of problems would bring all the old arguments out again.

Of course it would, that's how footy fans work!

[SmiffyPie]

You all must have realised that Warnock jacked the Aberdeen job in so he could mentor SM? It's clear as day the Bros have been on the phone to him and given him the chance to be the hardman part of the Notts answer to Clough and Taylor! The only thing to be agreed is renaming the Kop, Neil wants "The Warnard KOP" while Stu wants "The Maynock KOP"

[SinceSept1959]

Maybe we should give the owners credit for a prompt appointment when LW went , obviously a contingency plan appointment.
Personally , I think JOB should have been given more games in charge .
In the 5 all draw at Grimsby the players showed some spirit , passion and urgency to earn a point.
The last three home games have been unbearable and very disappointing after the win at Newport.
The team have looked better with Jim on the pitch and his passion , urgency and organisation have been to the forefront.
Sadly it appears that we have another coach in the dugout who struggles to motivate the players.
Rather reminiscent of Ardley and Burchnall ?

[upthemaggies]

So I think for that list to be of true comparison and in context maybe it should only include performance at tiers 3&4 when Notts budgets were far closer to their opposition.


Definitely the fairest way to do it is by individual each division, I did the whole lot just to show how bad Maynard currently is regardless.
Broken down into tiers 1-5 (again no caretakers, play off games are factored in but not cups)

Tier 1
1.24 Howard Wilkinson
1.22 Albert Fisher
1.22 Committee
1.12 Jimmy Sirrel (2)
0.98 Larry Lloyd
0.95 Neil Warnock

Tier 2
2.00 Jimmy Sirrel (4)
1.80 Committee
1.54 Albert Fisher
1.53 Frank Broome
1.46 Ron Fenton
1.43 Neil Warnock
1.40 Mick Walker
1.40 Jimmy Sirrel (2)
1.36 Jimmy Sirrel
1.24 Eric Houghton
1.24 Horace Henshall
1.23 George Poyser
1.14 Howard Kendall
1.13 Committee (2)
1.00 Tommy Lawton
0.83 Richie Barker
0.72 Russell Slade
0.55 Larry Lloyd
0.41 Charlie Jones

Tier 3
1.98 Jimmy McMullan
1.98 Horace Henshall
1.98 Eric Houghton
1.87 Neil Warnock
1.82 Jimmy Sirrel
1.69 Keith Curle
1.60 Jimmy Sirrel (4)
1.53 John Barnwell
1.47 Jocky Scott
1.46 Arthur Stollery
1.45 Tim Coleman (2)
1.43 Colin Murphy
1.38 Percy Smith
1.36 Wilf Fisher
1.30 Martin Allen
1.27 Harry Parkes
1.26 Frank Hill
1.25 Gary Brazil
1.23 Craig Short
1.21 Shaun Derry
1.12 Billy Dearden
1.12 Sam Allardyce
1.08 Paul Ince
1.00 Gary Mills
0.97 Chris Kiwomya
0.83 Ricardo Moniz
0.78 Eddie Lowe
0.57 Gary Brazil (2)

Tier 4
2.50 Steve Cotterill
2.15 Sam Allardyce
2.01 Jimmy Sirrel
2.00 David Kevan (2)
1.87 Frank Hill
1.62 Luke Williams
1.56 Kevin Nolan
1.42 Tim Coleman (3)
1.42 Andy Beattie
1.33 Jack Wheeler
1.30 Ricardo Moniz
1.29 Hans Backe
1.28 Steve Thompson
1.26 Jack Burkitt
1.24 Eddie Lowe
1.18 Harry Kewell
1.17 Ian Richardson
1.13 Gudjon Thordarson
1.13 Ian McParland
1.10 Billy Gray
1.10 Mark Cooper
1.06 Gary Mills
0.96 Neal Ardley
0.92 John Sheridan
0.83 Jamie Fullarton
0.50 Stuart Maynard

Tier 5
2.33 Luke Williams
1.77 Ian Burchnall
1.70 Neal Ardley

[jackal2]

You all must have realised that Warnock jacked the Aberdeen job in so he could mentor SM? It's clear as day the Bros have been on the phone to him and given him the chance to be the hardman part of the Notts answer to Clough and Taylor! The only thing to be agreed is renaming the Kop, Neil wants "The Warnard KOP" while Stu wants "The Maynock KOP"

I hadn't realised, but it sounds like a bloody good plan! :D

[Lullapie]

Wow. He’s keeping some special company there.

The bros have got this one wrong. When LW left we needed more of an impact manager to see the season through and galvanise the players whilst we spread the net out for someone to fit the philosophy long term. We needed some experience and charisma, instead we got a seemingly nice bloke who can probably coach but does not at all come over as much of a great leader and communicator.

He does speak sense in his interviews but they are so mundane and irritating that I can’t bear more than a few minutes. Imagine listening to it all week. Now we’re stuck, what do the owners do? We’ve a squad with players clearly not up to scratch, many with another year on their contracts, and a manager out of his depth.

The owners will probably not pull the trigger just yet but will be re-evaluating their decisions and searching for possible replacements if the next three to four games show no improvement.

He just won't have the respect from the more 'seasoned' pros. He's not very tall either, which even more makes it difficult for him. Don't get me wrong and paraphrase what I'm saying that you have to be a giant to be a good manager, but everytime I see SM interviewed, it's as though he is the Wealdstone Raider's slightly bigger brother.

[Lullapie]

Definitely the fairest way to do it is by individual each division, I did the whole lot just to show how bad Maynard currently is regardless.
Broken down into tiers 1-5 (again no caretakers, play off games are factored in but not cups)

Tier 1
1.24 Howard Wilkinson
1.22 Albert Fisher
1.22 Committee
1.12 Jimmy Sirrel (2)
0.98 Larry Lloyd
0.95 Neil Warnock

Tier 2
2.00 Jimmy Sirrel (4)
1.80 Committee
1.54 Albert Fisher
1.53 Frank Broome
1.46 Ron Fenton
1.43 Neil Warnock
1.40 Mick Walker
1.40 Jimmy Sirrel (2)
1.36 Jimmy Sirrel
1.24 Eric Houghton
1.24 Horace Henshall
1.23 George Poyser
1.14 Howard Kendall
1.13 Committee (2)
1.00 Tommy Lawton
0.83 Richie Barker
0.72 Russell Slade
0.55 Larry Lloyd
0.41 Charlie Jones

Tier 3
1.98 Jimmy McMullan
1.98 Horace Henshall
1.98 Eric Houghton
1.87 Neil Warnock
1.82 Jimmy Sirrel
1.69 Keith Curle
1.60 Jimmy Sirrel (4)
1.53 John Barnwell
1.47 Jocky Scott
1.46 Arthur Stollery
1.45 Tim Coleman (2)
1.43 Colin Murphy
1.38 Percy Smith
1.36 Wilf Fisher
1.30 Martin Allen
1.27 Harry Parkes
1.26 Frank Hill
1.25 Gary Brazil
1.23 Craig Short
1.21 Shaun Derry
1.12 Billy Dearden
1.12 Sam Allardyce
1.08 Paul Ince
1.00 Gary Mills
0.97 Chris Kiwomya
0.83 Ricardo Moniz
0.78 Eddie Lowe
0.57 Gary Brazil (2)

Tier 4
2.50 Steve Cotterill
2.15 Sam Allardyce
2.01 Jimmy Sirrel
2.00 David Kevan (2)
1.87 Frank Hill
1.62 Luke Williams
1.56 Kevin Nolan
1.42 Tim Coleman (3)
1.42 Andy Beattie
1.33 Jack Wheeler
1.30 Ricardo Moniz
1.29 Hans Backe
1.28 Steve Thompson
1.26 Jack Burkitt
1.24 Eddie Lowe
1.18 Harry Kewell
1.17 Ian Richardson
1.13 Gudjon Thordarson
1.13 Ian McParland
1.10 Billy Gray
1.10 Mark Cooper
1.06 Gary Mills
0.96 Neal Ardley
0.92 John Sheridan
0.83 Jamie Fullarton
0.50 Stuart Maynard

Tier 5
2.33 Luke Williams
1.77 Ian Burchnall
1.70 Neal Ardley

I didn't realise Wilf Fisher was only 'mid-table'.

[ThaiPie]

He just won't have the respect from the more 'seasoned' pros. He's not very tall either, which even more makes it difficult for him. Don't get me wrong and paraphrase what I'm saying that you have to be a giant to be a good manager, but everytime I see SM interviewed, it's as though he is the Wealdstone Raider's slightly bigger brother.

HaHa, That's a funny post. He's not very tall! Maybe radar have a maximum height for all recruits.

If he was going to play in central defense, OK height matters, but come on. ;D:P

Jose Mourinho is 5' 9", and he's won a few pots.

Give SM two good central defenders and a goalkeeper, and then let's see what he can do.

[The Dug Out]

SM will be at Meadow Lane for years to come, We will not get relegated this season and when the season closes the re-build will begin.
I would say that things are being put in place right now with players that will take the club forward and upward.

[nw6pie]

SM will be at Meadow Lane for years to come, We will not get relegated this season and when the season closes the re-build will begin.
I would say that things are being put in place right now with players that will take the club forward and upward.

Is that you, Mr. Montague?

Let’s hope so, because this summer’s recruitment could make or break the club. We can’t afford to become a yo-yo club between the EFL and the NL

[PedroTheFisherman66]

in answer to the question , Fullerton !

[The_Don_ORiordan]

For me, of the short term appointments Fullarton is the stand out. It wasn’t just the results, it was the baffling team selections, substitution’s, and interviews.
Of the ones who had time and resources and did the least with it, Mills was by far the worst.
For the worst football Nolan and McParland, surprising, maybe but Nolan’s hoofball (albeit often successful) and McParlands slow death football make even our worst days seem tolerable.

[The Dug Out]

Is that you, Mr. Montague?

Let’s hope so, because this summer’s recruitment could make or break the club. We can’t afford to become a yo-yo club between the EFL and the NL
No, not at all, i have never met the chap. What i say/ believe may happen is as i said above, just based on logic. The owners have not been on this journey to throw it all away on a bad patch, a really bad patch. We have to bear in mind that compared with the last 10/13 years debacles we are now a well run outfit that has hit a bump, i'm glad we have these owners and not the boom or bust people we had at the helm prior.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

No, not at all, i have never met the chap. What i say/ believe may happen is as i said above, just based on logic. The owners have not been on this journey to throw it all away on a bad patch, a really bad patch. We have to bear in mind that compared with the last 10/13 years debacles we are now a well run outfit that has hit a bump, i'm gald we have these owners and not the boom or bust people we had at the helm prior.

And as was shown Luke did nearly as badly against the sides Stuart has faced. It’s been a tough run and we’ve been found to not have improved despite some recruitment.

This season has gone, and we won’t make the playoffs which is think would have been acceptable to any fan. But progress has been made. It might not feel I like it, but we will end the season in a far higher position than last season. That is a fact.

[Bohinen]

And as was shown Luke did nearly as badly against the sides Stuart has faced. It’s been a tough run and we’ve been found to not have improved despite some recruitment.

This season has gone, and we won’t make the playoffs which is think would have been acceptable to any fan. But progress has been made. It might not feel I like it, but we will end the season in a far higher position than last season. That is a fact.

It's where we end next season that matters. Having watched Notts for 60 years, any success one year has always followed an improvement during the previous season. It is clutching at straws to say we are higher than last year when it was physically impossible to be lower.

Luke's matches compared with SM (7 points versus 4, which is nearly double) are not a good indicator because for SM it is all his matches with Notts but Luke had some great wins interspersed, including a 5-0 just before he left.

He is clearly out of his depth and people saying otherwise are just being bloody minded or plain stupid (not in your case so I'll go with the former).

[1955pie]

And as was shown Luke did nearly as badly against the sides Stuart has faced. It’s been a tough run and we’ve been found to not have improved despite some recruitment.

This season has gone, and we won’t make the playoffs which is think would have been acceptable to any fan. But progress has been made. It might not feel I like it, but we will end the season in a far higher position than last season. That is a fact.

Progress?? I think next years’ season ticket sales will tell you how much progress we have made.

[OP67]

The mind boggles with th appointment of Stuart Maynard as head coach. He's never played or coached at any level above the National League. Has never been a full time coach until he joined us so I bet that's a hard transition. What on earth went through the brothers minds when appointing him???

I guess the brothers were dissapointed to have missed out on Mike Williamson. Look at the job he's doing at MK Dons now.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

It's where we end next season that matters. Having watched Notts for 60 years, any success one year has always followed an improvement during the previous season. It is clutching at straws to say we are higher than last year when it was physically impossible to be lower.

Luke's matches compared with SM (7 points versus 4, which is nearly double) are not a good indicator because for SM it is all his matches with Notts but Luke had some great wins interspersed, including a 5-0 just before he left.

He is clearly out of his depth and people saying otherwise are just being bloody minded or plain stupid (not in your case so I'll go with the former).

So SM is one win different in a very small sample and there has been some very very close games in there. Is he out of his depth? Probably. But it’s still a very small sample size.

SM still needs to play those sides we beat 5-0 under Luke for a fairer comparison. Luke also had a lot more time to understand the players.

Recruitment has been poor, we didn’t even try and improve the one area that we needed to in the summer. And are suffering for that and will do until we resolve it. That won’t be this season.

[SmiffyPie]

SM was on a hiding to nothing when he came in. Well respected manager left (just in time IMO), team at the start of a poor run, poor defensive record, key players injured, predictable system sussed by most teams, apparent lack of confidence across the team. Other than the job being a chance for him it makes you wonder why he took it? Not sure if he can turn things around but can't really fault him for taking a punt at the job.

[OP67]

Recruitment has been poor, we didn’t even try and improve the one area that we needed to in the summer. And are suffering for that and will do until we resolve it. That won’t be this season.

And probably one reason LW left as he could see even more trouble ahead than he was already experiencing and didn't want to end the season looking like a poor coach.

[queenslandpie]

And probably one reason LW left as he could see even more trouble ahead than he was already experiencing and didn't want to end the season looking like a poor coach.

Garbage.

He was given a good opportunity close to home and he took it. Who wouldn't. he earnt it.

If we were 15 points clear at the top I still reckon he would have taken it.

[upthemaggies]

Not sure if he can turn things around

If we'd stuck with Fullarton for the following season, he *might* have turned things around. If we had say 50 parallel universes and had the fixture list for 2016/17 come out in a different order for each one, he could have had a good start with an early run of games against sides who ended up down at the bottom and got some momentum going. There's enough random variables in the game for anything to happen in spite of a manager's shortcomings, luck plays it part which is why there's such a thriving betting industry advertising relentlessly on sports channels.

The board *could* back him to the hilt next summer to increase the odds of Maynard turning things around, but we're at the stage now where Allardyce is the only previous Notts manager to recover from a start this bad and go on to be a success.... and he had to do it after we'd got relegated. In pure mathematical terms this would be a unique turn around and on top of that - most seem to agree that he doesn't seem to have the personality either.

He won't continue to be this bad indefinitely, a 0.50 PPG ratio is 23 points over 46 games and you hardly ever see a club perform that badly over a season (the current bottom 2 have already surpassed that), but if we want to be challenging for promotion I cannot see this guy delivering.

[queenslandpie]

If we'd stuck with Fullarton for the following season, he *might* have turned things around. If we had say 50 parallel universes and had the fixture list for 2016/17 come out in a different order for each one, he could have had a good start with an early run of games against sides who ended up down at the bottom and got some momentum going. There's enough random variables in the game for anything to happen in spite of a manager's shortcomings, luck plays it part which is why there's such a thriving betting industry advertising relentlessly on sports channels.

The board *could* back him to the hilt next summer to increase the odds of Maynard turning things around, but we're at the stage now where Allardyce is the only previous Notts manager to recover from a start this bad and go on to be a success.... and he had to do it after we'd got relegated. In pure mathematical terms this would be a unique turn around and on top of that - most seem to agree that he doesn't seem to have the personality either.

He won't continue to be this bad indefinitely, a 0.50 PPG ratio is 23 points over 46 games and you hardly ever see a club perform that badly over a season (the current bottom 2 have already surpassed that), but if we want to be challenging for promotion I cannot see this guy delivering.

It is not that straight forward though as how many times has a new manager come in mid way through the season with a team in the promotion play off slots at Notts? Was it Gary Brazil after Allardyce? He didn't last long in the permanent role. When Allardyce came in we were already screwed and down. Your post is basically justifying the theory of lies lies and statistics! BTW I say we give him until the end of the season and go from there. His interviews are quite awful and concern me a bit but we don't have a lot to lose this season now.

[hissingdwarf]

Definitely the fairest way to do it is by individual each division, I did the whole lot just to show how bad Maynard currently is regardless.
Broken down into tiers 1-5 (again no caretakers, play off games are factored in but not cups)

Tier 1
1.24 Howard Wilkinson
1.22 Albert Fisher
1.22 Committee
1.12 Jimmy Sirrel (2)
0.98 Larry Lloyd
0.95 Neil Warnock

Tier 2
2.00 Jimmy Sirrel (4)
1.80 Committee
1.54 Albert Fisher
1.53 Frank Broome
1.46 Ron Fenton
1.43 Neil Warnock
1.40 Mick Walker
1.40 Jimmy Sirrel (2)
1.36 Jimmy Sirrel
1.24 Eric Houghton
1.24 Horace Henshall
1.23 George Poyser
1.14 Howard Kendall
1.13 Committee (2)
1.00 Tommy Lawton
0.83 Richie Barker
0.72 Russell Slade
0.55 Larry Lloyd
0.41 Charlie Jones

Tier 3
1.98 Jimmy McMullan
1.98 Horace Henshall
1.98 Eric Houghton
1.87 Neil Warnock
1.82 Jimmy Sirrel
1.69 Keith Curle
1.60 Jimmy Sirrel (4)
1.53 John Barnwell
1.47 Jocky Scott
1.46 Arthur Stollery
1.45 Tim Coleman (2)
1.43 Colin Murphy
1.38 Percy Smith
1.36 Wilf Fisher
1.30 Martin Allen
1.27 Harry Parkes
1.26 Frank Hill
1.25 Gary Brazil
1.23 Craig Short
1.21 Shaun Derry
1.12 Billy Dearden
1.12 Sam Allardyce
1.08 Paul Ince
1.00 Gary Mills
0.97 Chris Kiwomya
0.83 Ricardo Moniz
0.78 Eddie Lowe
0.57 Gary Brazil (2)

Tier 4
2.50 Steve Cotterill
2.15 Sam Allardyce
2.01 Jimmy Sirrel
2.00 David Kevan (2)
1.87 Frank Hill
1.62 Luke Williams
1.56 Kevin Nolan
1.42 Tim Coleman (3)
1.42 Andy Beattie
1.33 Jack Wheeler
1.30 Ricardo Moniz
1.29 Hans Backe
1.28 Steve Thompson
1.26 Jack Burkitt
1.24 Eddie Lowe
1.18 Harry Kewell
1.17 Ian Richardson
1.13 Gudjon Thordarson
1.13 Ian McParland
1.10 Billy Gray
1.10 Mark Cooper
1.06 Gary Mills
0.96 Neal Ardley
0.92 John Sheridan
0.83 Jamie Fullarton
0.50 Stuart Maynard

Tier 5
2.33 Luke Williams
1.77 Ian Burchnall
1.70 Neal Ardley

As someone mentioned earlier, threads like this do no good for the soul as it is a reminder that over my 45 years of supporting, I've witnessed some real rubbish managers at the Lane!

Always surprises me how high someone like Keith Curle is on lists like this. My resounding memory from his period was...we were bloody boring...so surprised to see how well we actually did on reflection.

[upthemaggies]

how many times has a new manager come in mid way through the season with a team in the promotion play off slots at Notts? Was it Gary Brazil after Allardyce? .


I can think of three, in or around the promotion spots mid-season.
Harry Parkes taking over from Jimmy McMullan, sacked the following season 9 places lower than he started.
Ronnie Fenton taking over from Jimmy Sirrel, sacked two years later and 15 places lower.
Gary Brazil taking over from Allardyce, reverting back to coach at the end of the season 6 places lower.

The future is always unknown and this game does throw up surprises, the best predictions we can make are based on probabilities (past scenarios) and a hunch based on vibes he gives off as a person and there's nothing there to suggest Maynard can be a success after the start he has had. Spending can have an impact, but we've seen managers backed before who have still failed. I think Man Utd have spent more than Man City have in recent years, for example.

[queenslandpie]

I can think of three, in or around the promotion spots mid-season.
Harry Parkes taking over from Jimmy McMullan, sacked the following season 9 places lower than he started.
Ronnie Fenton taking over from Jimmy Sirrel, sacked two years later and 15 places lower.
Gary Brazil taking over from Allardyce, reverting back to coach at the end of the season 6 places lower.

The future is always unknown and this game does throw up surprises, the best predictions we can make are based on probabilities (past scenarios) and a hunch based on vibes he gives off as a person and there's nothing there to suggest Maynard can be a success after the start he has had. Spending can have an impact, but we've seen managers backed before who have still failed. I think Man Utd have spent more than Man City have in recent years, for example.

I can only speak to one of them which is Brazil after Allardyce. And yes Brazil was really not the best.

Thing for me with Maynard is that after a few years I have thrown myself to trust the process! I don't usually do things like that to be honest. So I am still hoping he works out. We have nothing to play for now really so at least he gets a free hit for a few games and then in game 43 if we are in the poo Warnock is hired we get new manager bounce and he finally retires a hero. Ha Ha.

[the_anticlough]

Here's a challenge, have there been other owners in football whose first 2 managerial/H.coach appointments both left mid-contract to take up positions 2 leagues higher?

I think it'd be a struggle to find another example.

The point of the question? Explains why fans went along with the 3rd appointment despite it not seeming right (to many, not all). They'd earned the benefit of the doubt. But now we're undoubtedly in Meatloaf territory now with 'Two out of three ain't bad' (I'd link to a video of the song, but I think we've suffered enough recently).

[upthemaggies]

As someone mentioned earlier, threads like this do no good for the soul as it is a reminder that over my 45 years of supporting, I've witnessed some real rubbish managers at the Lane!

Always surprises me how high someone like Keith Curle is on lists like this. My resounding memory from his period was...we were bloody boring...so surprised to see how well we actually did on reflection.

Curle's HOME PPG ratio for the 2nd season he was in charge (his last 14 games at Meadow Lane) dropped down to 1.29, which is the same as Derry's overall home PPG.

Away, Curle's overall PPG was 1.82, which is the 3rd best of all time behind Cotterill and Kevan(2nd spell). Russell Slade incidentally is the worst ever manager on the road with an appalling 0.13 PPG and 88% away loss rate.

Fullarton was the worst ever at home on 0.20 after completing just 5 Meadow Lane fixtures, though Maynard currently has an identical home record (W0 D1 L4) but with -7 GD as opposed to Fullarton's -8.

[matt_magpie]

For me it’s all about perception mainly of Maynard and many have wrote him off due to him coming from part time.
If we had a manager come in that was highly regarded by most of the fans most would say it was the team, sighting Williams only got 3 points extra in the reverse fixtures of the 8 games.
I don’t know if he’s good enough or not but sighting he’s not up to it because he’s come from part time is a pretty low shot as it doesn’t mean he’s not capable but just working his way up the pyramid, not everyone gets afforded the free passes like Rooney and Lampard etc.
Kieran McKennas only really been an academy coach, never had a playing career and he’s doing unbelievable well, it’s not always about the CV but what someone can bring, for me give him to the end of season.

[queenslandpie]

For me it’s all about perception mainly of Maynard and many have wrote him off due to him coming from part time.
If we had a manager come in that was highly regarded by most of the fans most would say it was the team, sighting Williams only got 3 points extra in the reverse fixtures of the 8 games.
I don’t know if he’s good enough or not but sighting he’s not up to it because he’s come from part time is a pretty low shot as it doesn’t mean he’s not capable but just working his way up the pyramid, not everyone gets afforded the free passes like Rooney and Lampard etc.
Kieran McKennas only really been an academy coach, never had a playing career and he’s doing unbelievable well, it’s not always about the CV but what someone can bring, for me give him to the end of season.

Spot on.

[upthemaggies]

sighting Williams only got 3 points extra in the reverse fixtures of the 8 games.


As I've already pointed out, that's not a fair like for like comparison as Maynard has had 5 of that 8 game sample at home as opposed to Williams 3 from 8..... and 2 of Williams 3 home games were against Wrexham and Mansfield (the two home games he lost whilst Maynard has lost at home to Sutton who are bottom and Gillingham who LW beat away, as well as Crewe and Wimbledon).
We've collected 31 points at home, 16 away, so the venue does make a very big difference.

[matt_magpie]

As I've already pointed out, that's not a fair like for like comparison as Maynard has had 5 of that 8 game sample at home as opposed to Williams 3 from 8..... and 2 of Williams 3 home games were against Wrexham and Mansfield (the two home games he lost whilst Maynard has lost at home to Sutton who are bottom and Gillingham who LW beat away, as well as Crewe and Wimbledon).
We've collected 31 points at home, 16 away, so the venue does make a very big difference.

True but then I would also say for 4 or 5 of those games we had Palmer and as ridiculous as it sounds I put quite a bit of emphasis on the loss of him. Bostock up to his injury was playing pretty good too, there’s so many variables but my point is more the perception being unfair.

[SmiffyPie]

Without having to trawl through posts and missing something, what time period are you comparing LW and SM? I get the SM games but what period are the LW comparison games?

[upthemaggies]

Without having to trawl through posts and missing something, what time period are you comparing LW and SM? I get the SM games but what period are the LW comparison games?

The comparisons being made include 3 LW losses after he'd been linked with the Oxford job, v Wrexham, Crewe and Wimbledon, with one of the players admitting at the time in a Radio Nottm interview that it was worrying them.

[SmiffyPie]

Thanks.

[OP67]

The comparisons being made include 3 LW losses after he'd been linked with the Oxford job, v Wrexham, Crewe and Wimbledon, with one of the players admitting at the time in a Radio Nottm interview that it was worrying them.

Who was that? I must have missed it.

I'm sure Luke would have told them he'd had no contact with Oxford, which he hadn't. There was never any approach from Oxford made.

[matt_magpie]

The comparisons being made include 3 LW losses after he'd been linked with the Oxford job, v Wrexham, Crewe and Wimbledon, with one of the players admitting at the time in a Radio Nottm interview that it was worrying them.

If that's true and effected their performances then we are really in trouble.

[midshipman]

Spot on
We've all known it all season and of course every other team in L2 knows it now as we can see from the way opponents play against us week after week

S M cannot save us with the Rubbish Defenders we have. appointed for the right reason but the ship notts county appeared to be sailing along O K but the bottom was falling out of the ship but the owners where blinded by the success (top of the league) Thought they needed some one to carry on who would not rock the ship. We now need a manager who can read the riot act to the defence and if no improvement give the players concerned the HEV HO.

[NottsNotCounty]

I didn’t think it would go this badly but the appointment of Maynard I felt from first hearing about it to be a baffling and uninspired choice, I felt frankly disappointed and sold short by the brothers by his appointment. At a time when we were sat in a play off position it appeared an odd gamble that felt on a par with Fullerton’s arrival.

I still can’t fathom out what he had done to deserve the opportunity, he had been assistant manager when Wealdstone went up and had basically got Wealdstone to be about three quarters of the way down the table, his CV is far less impressive as a part time manager than Dorkings Marc White and there would have been total dismay and uproar had we gone for him but his record is by far more deserving.

Worst manager, yes, for the position we were in at his time of appointment.

[Glad2BeAPie]

All these comments is he good enough etc. He'll be be here at the start of next season. The brothers aren't going to waste money by sacking them and hiring another set of coaches this early. The money needed for firing and hiring could be used for new players.

[OP67]

All these comments is he good enough etc. He'll be be here at the start of next season. The brothers aren't going to waste money by sacking them and hiring another set of coaches this early. The money needed for firing and hiring could be used for new players.

I should think there'll be a good wedge left over from the compensation we got from Swansea to cover it. I doubt we paid Wealdstone much to get Maynard, The sale of Langstaff and Jones will be used to hopefully bring in a new defence capable of competing in L2 next season.

[Woodypie]

All these comments is he good enough etc. He'll be be here at the start of next season. The brothers aren't going to waste money by sacking them and hiring another set of coaches this early. The money needed for firing and hiring could be used for new players. Even good new players need coaching, something I am not convinced Maynard can do effectively.

[BigFatPie]

All these comments is he good enough etc. He'll be be here at the start of next season. The brothers aren't going to waste money by sacking them and hiring another set of coaches this early. The money needed for firing and hiring could be used for new players.

Yeah I bet Maynard and his agent demanded big dollars in the event of early dismissal.Far more than the proceeds of losing about 1000 off the home crowd every week.

[OldMagpie60]

Yeah I bet Maynard and his agent demanded big dollars in the event of early dismissal.Far more than the proceeds of losing about 1000 off the home crowd every week.

All the data being quoted in this thread just proves that it isn’t the way to select managers, although as stated earlier what has SM done to be in this job?
I’ll bet there isn’t one of the 10k at the game on Saturday or not one of the senior squad who would have chosen SM for the role, not one and so defending him now is deluded. He may well make a good coach longer term but it is blatantly obvious that he’s in the wrong job at the wrong time - the players are trying but their hearts aren’t in it. They look confused half the time.
Yes the owners were negligent pre season and in Jan ref the defence but my guess is JOB could have kept the spirit and goals flowing and not lost the season ticket renewals that are leaking away right now and our best players in the summer!
Frankly we deserved better from the owners and I hope they’ve learnt their lesson.