⚽ Match Thread vs. Salford City [EFL L2] 23.03.24

[skandark]

25902

[since41]

Looks a good bench for a change.

[MapperleyMagpie]

Attacking line and attack minded bench, is Nemane injured?

[OP67]

Bet Ashby-Hammond is wondering what he needs to do, a clean sheet and an assist on Tuesday then dropped! Looks like the pitch and Bradford took it out of Nemane on Tuesday.

[skandark]

Attacking line and attack minded bench, is Nemane injured?

Nemane ill according to Notts official X

[kill_the_drum]

Bet Ashby-Hammond is wondering what he needs to do, a clean sheet and an assist on Tuesday then dropped! Looks like the pitch and Bradford took it out of Nemane on Tuesday.

I bet he doesn’t.
Slocombe deserves to retain his place.

[maddogslater]

He still conceded 2 , Ashby deserves to start after a clean sheet IMO, must admit his pirouette needs some work.

[upthemaggies]

Bradford 0-3 behind at Harrogate and heading for their 4th straight defeat, their losing sequence coming after conceding just 1 goal in their previous 6.

[BCnotts18]

Terrible from Austin there. We've shown nothing so far.

[OP67]

Goes round Cameron and a goal to Salford!!!! XD

[hissingdwarf]

Flat here again. And Cameron…a five year old could go past him at the minute.
What a waste of a shirt.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

Pathetic from Cameron.

[upthemaggies]

Stall not pulling any punches in blaming Cameron for that goal.

[legs77]

Goes round Cameron and a goal to Salford!!!! XD

Not great but let’s look at Austin what the hell was that challenge

[Eastcoastultra1977]

How many times this season has Cameron cost Notts and he still keeps his place?...and,yes Austin is crap.

Sally will be hard to break down now but you have to attack first.

[upthemaggies]

We've only twice come from behind to win this season, Grimsby Home and Crawley Home.

[Davy500]

Normal service has been resumed - behind at home again . Plenty of time yet though ?

[legs77]

Too slow at moving the ball again that is the issue we need to get Chicksen off and Jones on that side.

[BCnotts18]

Normal service has been resumed - behind at home again . Plenty of time yet though ?

If we carry on the way we are we'll be lucky yo have a shot on tagret nevermind score twice.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

Cameron is useless.

[Davy500]

I told people on Tuesday that it was more due to luck and rub of the green that we won on tuesday against a poor Bradford rather than us turning a corner. i thopught Plat offs not a chance, more of a joke i thought
still 2nd half to change it ?

[upthemaggies]

still 2nd half to change it ?

Of the 10 previous league games we've been behind at HT, we've gone on to lose 9 of them. The first home game of the season being the only exception.

[BCnotts18]

Abject first 45.

[MancMagpie]

I just don't understand why we can't take the momentum from the 2nd half Tuesday in to this game?
Yeah, Salford are stifling us a bit, but we look like we're out of ideas.
I'd suggest moving Jones back to the left. Subbing off Chicks for Bostock and putting Austin at RWB.

[Eastcoastultra1977]

That was absolutely garbage.No intensity,effort,confidence, nothing.End of season crap.

What does this manager say to the team? FO Maynard.

[upthemaggies]

Stall summing up that Notts haven't found the same energy levels as Tuesday night. Salford have been niggly but that's what you'd expect of an away side, they aren't going to make it easy for you. Not enough movement from Notts, terrible goal to concede.

[The_Don_ORiordan]

No intensity, no movement, no pace.

Add to that a traffic cone in the middle of defence…..

[SaltySeaDog]

I'd suggest moving Jones back to the left. Subbing off Chicks for Bostock and putting Austin at RWB.

Agree with this. Chicks hasn't provided anything on that side, and players are going past him like he isn't there

[upthemaggies]

45 minutes away from equalling the club record sequence of home defeats.

[SmiffyPie]

That half can be summed up with one word...Groan!

[Davy500]

No reason why we should not be able to turn it round second half- its possible ibut t does not seem likely at this point

[the_anticlough]

Really poor.

They're playing like Maynard's thought processes - hesitant, muddled, scared
And it starts with him. The answer to Nemane being out isn't to take Jones away from the left and put the toothless Chicksen there. From being down on one side, he's made sure we're down on both

Nemame - Austin
Jones -Jones

is obviously better than

Nemane - Jones
Jones- Chicksen

If he says it was to 'nullify' whatever Salford have, then I give up completely

[1955pie]

I just don't understand why we can't take the momentum from the 2nd half Tuesday in to this game?
Yeah, Salford are stifling us a bit, but we look like we're out of ideas.
I'd suggest moving Jones back to the left. Subbing off Chicks for Bostock and putting Austin at RWB.

I think Bostock instead of Austin to link up with defence. And Didzy instead of Chicks to give a bit more threat. Crowley needs to up his game.

[Eastcoastultra1977]

You can play crap and go in 0-0 but when you have clowns like Cameron starting it's like a goal start for the opposition before kick off which has bween shown time and time again.Why can't the management see it and we can?What does he bring to the team except crass errors.

[The_Pie_Man]

That was rotten.

[BanjoPie]

I just don't understand why we can't take the momentum from the 2nd half Tuesday in to this game?
Yeah, Salford are stifling us a bit, but we look like we're out of ideas.
I'd suggest moving Jones back to the left. Subbing off Chicks for Bostock and putting Austin at RWB.

Spot on correct!

[drillerpie]

Very disjointed. Some promising situations but fizzling out due to poor final ball.

Disappointed we didn't have more shots, even from distance seeing as we had posession around the box rather than in it, and a strong wind behind us.

Cameron having a mare. Warner not really kicking on after a few appearances now. Robertson playing well.

One thing I don't get is this: if there are no easy balls out, and the long balls aren't really working, why don't our defenders try to dribble out more.

That is the point of these defenders. If they're not going to do that, we may as well get people who can actually defend in.

[hissingdwarf]

What an abject 45 minutes of slow, ponderous, crap football. Thought after Bradford, we might have seen a spark, but Christ on a bike.
Absolutely awful
And fecking Cameron is diabolical.
Even the fecking bovril tastes dodgy today!

[upthemaggies]

Big half for Maynard. We've had one false dawn with Newport, a 2nd false dawn will erode confidence that he can ever turn around this abysmal start.

[Davy500]

45 minutes away from equalling the club record sequence of home defeats.

Not onlt that anything other than a win will mean maynard is worse than Fullarton , absolutely disgracefull

Fullarton P12 W3 D1 L 8 - Points 10
Mayanrd P 11 W2 D2 L7 Points 8

It could have been the worse thing beating Bradford- because it will keep Maynard here now at least to the end of the season

[MapperleyMagpie]

Huge second half. Season over if we don't turn this around. If we lose this one we should drop all the senior pros not performing and give the youngsters a tun in the team.

[Bohinen]

I just don't understand why we can't take the momentum from the 2nd half Tuesday into this game.
Yeah, Salford are stifling us a bit, but we look like we're out of ideas.
I'd suggest moving Jones back to the left. Subbing off Chicks for Bostock and putting Austin at RWB.

All of which could have been done from the start. SM doesn't do himself any favours by chopping and changing formations and line-ups. Yes, Nemane isn't available but keep the shape and play Austin there. Let's hope the away form can be carried into home performances sometime soon, because this looks like the poor man's Keith Curle. So, I now predict SM will turn it around, Notts will win 3-1 and people can post their 'FAO Maynard haters' threads after all.

[CheltenhamPie]

Maynard has the players on the bench to turn this score around.
Will he use them correctly, and can he motivate them?

He really cannot afford to let the fans down today.

[Davy500]

Huge second half. Season over if we don't turn this around. If we lose this one we should drop all the senior pros not performing and give the youngsters a tun in the team.

With respect i think the season was over some time ago , anybody who thinks we are going to make the play offs - whatever your on i want some lol

[The_Pie_Man]

You get the feeling the Lane will get a bit toxic this afternoon if it doesn’t improve.

[MancMagpie]

He's moved JJ to left, took off Chicksen and put Austin at RWB...He must have heard me shouting!

[hissingdwarf]

You get the feeling the Lane will get a bit toxic this afternoon if it doesn’t improve.

Already is. Tonnes of moaning (quite rightly) in the queue at half time.

[SaltySeaDog]

He's moved JJ to left, took off Chicksen and put Austin at RWB...He must have heard me shouting!

Positive subs, and goaaalll!

[The_Don_ORiordan]

Lovely finish by Crowley. Didn’t panic. Took his time.

[SmiffyPie]

Bloody schoolboy defending.

[Davy500]

Just come back from shop and 1-1 . Chance of winning this ?

[MapperleyMagpie]

Come on Notts. Grand stand finish. It's the hope that kills you ☹️

[upthemaggies]

Just come back from shop and 1-1 . Chance of winning this ?

Less chance if we leave it to the last 20 minutes, where we concede far more than we score.

[upthemaggies]

FGR losing and Sutton winning. With the fixtures coming up, FGR probably cannot afford to lose to Doncaster.

[Davy500]

FGR losing and Sutton winning. With the fixtures coming up, FGR probably cannot afford to lose to Doncaster.

IF FGR are relegated -i dont think many of will feel any sadness

[Eastcoastultra1977]

Why aren't we pressing ?We have just stopped FFS

[BCnotts18]

Salford looking far more likely to get a winner than we are currently.

[OP67]

Two teams showing why they are where they are :s

[upthemaggies]

IF FGR are relegated -i dont think many of will feel any sadness

I certainty won't, it would have been sweet for us to be the club that sends them down, though I wouldn't have much confidence in us winning there now, so it'll be good if they're down before the last day - which looks likely with the teams they have to play.

Sutton now 3-0 up which puts FGR bottom on goal difference.

[Eastcoastultra1977]

There is only one team going to win this.

Wht the FK does Maynard tell them? He is a total tosser.

[upthemaggies]

9,967 gate

noticeably lower than usual for a Saturday fixture this season

[OP67]

2-1 Salford!!!! Game over, no points!

Maynard will not be Notts coach next season surely?

[upthemaggies]

And there it is, the late collapse

Notts 1 Salford 2

[BCnotts18]

We are ****ing horrendous.

[ajojones]

Useless.

[MapperleyMagpie]

Season over!! Our gates will plummet , brothers have brought upon themselves with poor appointments, poor recruitment and yoo much interfering

[upthemaggies]

7 mins added

[MapperleyMagpie]

I don't care what it takes , who is under contract the club needs to win back confidence. We have pissed a huge opportunity up the wall this season. Bloody Cameron again

[maddogslater]

Terrible defending, so easy for the opposition

[Davy500]

So its official Maynard worse tahn Fullarton

Fullarton P12 W3 d1 L8 - Points 10
maynard P12 w2 D2 L8 Points 8

As i said beating Bradford was the worst thing as it almost guaranteed Maynard would remain till the end of the season
No home wins for Maynard- God help us if Maynard remains next season - as it looks like a relegation battle , very very poor

[BCnotts18]

Should quite easily be 3/4-1 to them with our atrocious defending. Thank god there's only 4 home games left. I genuinely cannot wait for this season to be over.

[the_anticlough]

Didzy has been really bad

[upthemaggies]

So its official Maynard worse tahn Fullarton

Fullarton P12 W3 d1 L8 - Points 10
maynard P12 w2 D2 L8 Points 8

As i said beating Bradford was the worst thing as it almost guaranteed Maynard would remain till the end of the season
No home wins for Maynard- God help us if Maynard remains next season - as it looks like a relegation battle , very very poor

Whatever he does from now on, whenever we go through a bad patch fans will be able to point out that Fullarton was sacked for less.

[MapperleyMagpie]

Shame on you Maynard, shame on you recruitment team, shame on you Cameron

[upthemaggies]

Stall saying that Salford have been "firmly the better team"

[BCnotts18]

Have we had an attempt on goal since we scored?

[OP67]

Didzy has been really bad

He's clearly not fit and another desperate sub by Maynard!

[OP67]

Stall saying that Salford have been "firmly the better team"

And that is down to one man....Maynard!

[upthemaggies]

Full time

boos

[Rainbowpie]

I'm normally quite calm but sack the **** now and half that team .And take the captain with him. Cameron is a fuxking joke of a footballer

[Davy500]

Whatever he does from now on, whenever we go through a bad patch fans will be able to point out that Fullarton was sacked for less.

It is absolutely disgracefull, 8 points from 36 points avaialble
My main fear is if Maynard is still head coach next season ??

[ajojones]

Got us ticking over like Wealdstone- what a desperate waste from where we were. Season over. Useless.

[Eastcoastultra1977]

We get the equalizer.OK, let's go on and win this. So he plays for a FG DRAW!!!!!! We don't even press when Salford got the second ! He is NEGATIVE.

No desire,no intensity,no quality,no effort.

He has taken a play off team and kicked the fg soul out of them.He has wrecked us.

Salford could have had 5 today.

I can't bear a summer with this fg loser in charge.Who is going to want to come and play for us.?He is a Complete tool.

**** off Maynard

[MancMagpie]

Only Crowley, Macari and Robbo performed better than average. Too many passengers. Very frustrating

[Davy500]

We get the equalizer.OK, let's go on and win this. So he plays for a FG DRAW!!!!!! We don't even press when Salford got the second ! He is NEGATIVE.

No desire,no intensity,no quality,no effort.

He has taken a play off team and kicked the fg soul out of them.He has wrecked us.

Salford could have had 5 today.

I can't bear a summer with this fg loser in charge.Who is going to want to come and play for us.?He is a Complete tool.

**** off Maynard

Exactly with the win tuesday, and getting to 1-1 the game was for the taking - what happened.

[MapperleyMagpie]

Clear out the Manager and at least 10-12 players. Need to fully reset and go again.

[upthemaggies]

Stall saying that Notts "shackle themselves" playing the same way all game.

[OP67]

Get rid of Maynard now, put Jim in charge and take the time to find a proper coach who knows how to coach. Not a part time non league one that is soooooooooooo out of his depth in embarrassing!!!

[M0ufMk3]

Clear out the Manager and at least 10-12 players. Need to fully reset and go again.

If I was given ten players to clear out, I'd choose Cameron 10 times. He is a nailed on LB/LCB and captain (because he's the worst of those as well) in my all time worst Notts team and I've been a fan for over 50 years. And, at risk of being a complete **** about this, I really hope he's reading it.

[upthemaggies]

Maynard post match, thought we were the better team 1st half, thought we played well all game, we shouldn't lose that game. Performance level deserved a lot more, but if we defend like that....


"moments", "moments", "moments"

[Eastcoastultra1977]

Just listening to the loser on the radio.

WHAT GAME WAS HE WATCHING? WHAT A ****.

[Rainbowpie]

it was a false reading on tuesday cos bradford are worse than us
maynard tactics are shocking
how have we become a team that's worried about what we can't do as opposed to what we can do?
i would get rid of
slocombe
brindley
rawlinson
cameron
cameron
cameron
cameron
chicksen
austin
langstaff
morias
randall

[the_anticlough]

Both goals were caused by really weak play in centre-midfield.
We have to be stronger there, they mugged us twice. Cameron was very poor for the first, but we shouldn't have players breaking on us due to weak midfield play in the first place.

[hissingdwarf]

Clear out the Manager and at least 10-12 players. Need to fully reset and go again.

This. Didn’t enjoy it today at all. Even when we played well for all of 5 minutes, you had that feeling it wouldn’t last. And it didn’t. Absolute tosh.
Wasted the momentum from Tuesday by atrocious, slow football first half.

Season is now finished.

Clear them out. Start again with a new manager, who has some control over the signings.
Get rid of the defence and change the system to 4 at the back with players that know their roles.

Surprised at the attendance as it looked lower than that tbh. Can’t blame people for staying away though. Bloody freezing!

[M0ufMk3]

it was a false reading on tuesday cos bradford are worse than us
maynard tactics are shocking
how have we become a team that's worried about what we can't do as opposed to what we can do?
i would get rid of
slocombe
brindley
rawlinson
cameron
cameron
cameron
cameron
chicksen
austin
langstaff
morias
randall

Not enough Camerons (or Stones) and too many Langstaffs

[upthemaggies]

David Jackson noting that Maynard was "bullish" about the performance but wonders what he's comparing it to, going on to say it was nothing like as good as earlier in the season (implying before he arrived). Stall agreeing - not same intensity or attacking threat, "we seem to have lost belief."

[SmiffyPie]

Contract or no contract the only ones I would keep for next year are. ML, Crowley, Macari, Robbo, Jaffacake, JJ, Slocombe (on the bench). Come the end of the season Notts should hire a minibus and ship the rest of the crap out of Nottingham, SM can drive the bugger.

[hissingdwarf]

Not great but let’s look at Austin what the hell was that challenge

I know we have opposing views on Cameron, but surely, as his greatest supporter, you’ve got to admit the centre half playing for the dog and duck tomorrow morning looks better than Cameron.
No commitment at all and spends all his time throwing his hands in the air in frustration when he lets goals in.
Captain? FFS.

[BCnotts18]

Maynard post match, thought we were the better team 1st half, thought we played well all game, we shouldn't lose that game. Performance level deserved a lot more, but if we defend like that....


"moments", "moments", "moments"

If that counts as a good performance to him them we've got even more to worry about that I thought. We were totally outfought, lacked any semblance of movement and creativity and we're thoroughly 2nd best throughout yet again.

[BCnotts18]

I know we have opposing views on Cameron, but surely, as his greatest supporter, you’ve got to admit the centre half playing for the dog and duck tomorrow morning looks better than Cameron.
No commitment at all and spends all his time throwing his hands in the air in frustration when he lets goals in.
Captain? FFS.

And flipping off the notts fans in the pavis for having a go at him for passing it back to Slocombe for the 100000th time when we desperately need a goal.

[Davy500]

Contract or no contract the only ones I would keep for next year are. ML, Crowley, Macari, Robbo, Jaffacake, JJ, Slocombe (on the bench). Come the end of the season Notts should hire a minibus and ship the rest of the crap out of Nottingham, SM can drive the bugger.

I like it - Maynard can drive the bus haha

[the_anticlough]

It was nowhere near a good performance. Actually, it was a bad game. Salford are a run-of-the-mill thuggish L2 side. The ref never had the game under control. Someone needs to point out to him that nobody pays to see him standing around chatting at length with players.

Just a few months back we were guaranteed fantastic value for money and entertainment at Meadow Lane. That's gone.

[SmiffyPie]

The only reason Cameron plays each week is because we have no bugger else (which tells a sorry tale). He is a walking liability under pressure.

[Davy500]

It was nowhere near a good performance. Actually, it was a bad game. Salford are a run-of-the-mill thuggish L2 side. The ref never had the game under control. Someone needs to point out to him that nobody pays to see him standing around chatting at length with players.

Just a few months back we were guaranteed fantastic value for money and entertainment at Meadow Lane. That's gone.

I dont think anybody could have foresaw this collapse a few months ago

[legs77]

I know we have opposing views on Cameron, but surely, as his greatest supporter, you’ve got to admit the centre half playing for the dog and duck tomorrow morning looks better than Cameron.
No commitment at all and spends all his time throwing his hands in the air in frustration when he lets goals in.
Captain? FFS.

I’m not his greatest supporter at all if you look at ALL of our CBs I’d say there isn’t much difference in any of them.

Drop Cameron sure no problem but I doubt it changes much.

That first goal does not happen if O’Brien/Robertson goes for the ball Austin did it was weak and left us wide open and being honest we were poor and deserved to lose.

The moving of Jones to RWB was mind boggling as on the other side Chicksen does not have the energy/pace to play wing back now he was hung out to dry there.

[upthemaggies]

Maynard's home PPG now at 0.17.
Over 23 home games that would yield 4 points. He really has been a horror show at Meadow Lane.

Home and away, he's now had a quarter of a season in charge.......

First 12 games in charge this century.....
1. Steve Cotterill W10 D2 L0 Pts:32
2. Luke Williams W8 D3 L1 Pts:27
3. Keith Curle W8 D2 L2 Pts:26
4. Steve Thompson W6 D5 L1 Pts:23
5. Gudjon Thordarson W4 D6 L2 Pts:18
6. Kevin Nolan W5 D3 L4 Pts:18
7. Shaun Derry W5 D2 L5 Pts:17
8. Ian Burchnall W5 D2 L5 Pts:17
9. John Sheridan W5 D2 L5 Pts:17
10. Paul Ince W4 D4 L4 Pts:16
11. Craig Short W5 D1 L6 Pts:16
12. Gary Mills W4 D3 L5 Pts:15
13. Chris Kiwomya W3 D6 L3 Pts:15
14. Ian Richardson W4 D3 L5 Pts:15
15. Martin Allen W4 D2 L6 Pts:14
16. Ian McParland W3 D3 L6 Pts:12
17. Jocky Scott W3 D3 L6 Pts:12
18. Ricardo Moniz W3 D3 L6 Pts:12
19. Neal Ardley W3 D3 L6 Pts:12
20. Jamie Fullarton W3 D1 L8 Pts:10 ***Fullarton sacked at this point
21. Gary Brazil (2) W1 D5 L6 Pts:8
22. Stuart Maynard W2 D2 L8 Pts:8
23. Billy Dearden W2 D2 L8 Pts:8

Kewell had been sacked after game 11, Craig Short would get one more game.

[BanjoPie]

I'm normally quite calm but sack the **** now and half that team .And take the captain with him. Cameron is a fuxking joke of a footballer

Getting carried away again?

[the_anticlough]

I dont think anybody could have foresaw this collapse a few months ago

Yes it is a collapse
I remember posts when he started with us in the play offs. People were expecting us to at least hold our position. Sinking to mid-table was described as failure. There wasn't even a mention of plummeting deep into the bottom-half

[legs77]

You need to accept he is now going to see the season out as there is zero chance of the drop so he will get 19-20 games.

The season is dead anyway unless we blood some youth players but you can be sure as s**t we won’t use this opportunity either so it’s carry on regardless.

[Davy500]

You need to accept he is now going to see the season out as there is zero chance of the drop so he will get 19-20 games.

The season is dead anyway unless we blood some youth players but you can be sure as s**t we won’t use this opportunity either so it’s carry on regardless.

The win at Bradford all but guaranteed Maynard would remain this season
But for me and i am sure many other supporters, its not this season that worries me, its next season. I think with SM in charge next season - we could be in real trouble ??

[hissingdwarf]

I’m not his greatest supporter at all if you look at ALL of our CBs I’d say there isn’t much difference in any of them.

Drop Cameron sure no problem but I doubt it changes much.

That first goal does not happen if O’Brien/Robertson goes for the ball Austin did it was weak and left us wide open and being honest we were poor and deserved to lose.

The moving of Jones to RWB was mind boggling as on the other side Chicksen does not have the energy/pace to play wing back now he was hung out to dry there.

I’m not defending the rest of them. They’re all ****e!
Baldwin is the best of a bad bunch.
Cameron is the worst.

[The_Pie_Man]

Time to go, Mr Maynard.

You’re not up to the job.

[MarcusCole]

How many times do we have to do that goal kick process before they realise it does nothing? Slocombe to cameron, back to slowcombe who the walks up the pitch before hoofing to to no one. They will alway do that because they are too stupid to think about what they are doing.

Those two are abosolute f*cki*g garbage. I see some are defending Slocombe; why, he is f*cki*g garbage? His distribution is an absolute f*cki*g joke, there is no urgency in his play. When he went down injured I was half way hoping between a seaon ending injury and a career ending one. A good keeper would start the build up to a new play, him, he just hold on to the ball until the opposition have sorted themselves out and are ready for us.

As for Maynard, heis soout of his depth it is embarrassing, he doesn't even reailse how bad we were today. In his interview claiming we were the better side, promising same old same old for the rest of the season. There is no hope for a turn around, attendance is going to plummet if he stays.

[Davy500]

Maynard's home PPG now at 0.17.
Over 23 home games that would yield 4 points. He really has been a horror show at Meadow Lane.

Home and away, he's now had a quarter of a season in charge.......

First 12 games in charge this century.....
1. Steve Cotterill W10 D2 L0 Pts:32
2. Luke Williams W8 D3 L1 Pts:27
3. Keith Curle W8 D2 L2 Pts:26
4. Steve Thompson W6 D5 L1 Pts:23
5. Gudjon Thordarson W4 D6 L2 Pts:18
6. Kevin Nolan W5 D3 L4 Pts:18
7. Shaun Derry W5 D2 L5 Pts:17
8. Ian Burchnall W5 D2 L5 Pts:17
9. John Sheridan W5 D2 L5 Pts:17
10. Paul Ince W4 D4 L4 Pts:16
11. Craig Short W5 D1 L6 Pts:16
12. Gary Mills W4 D3 L5 Pts:15
13. Chris Kiwomya W3 D6 L3 Pts:15
14. Ian Richardson W4 D3 L5 Pts:15
15. Martin Allen W4 D2 L6 Pts:14
16. Ian McParland W3 D3 L6 Pts:12
17. Jocky Scott W3 D3 L6 Pts:12
18. Ricardo Moniz W3 D3 L6 Pts:12
19. Neal Ardley W3 D3 L6 Pts:12
20. Jamie Fullarton W3 D1 L8 Pts:10 ***Fullarton sacked at this point
21. Gary Brazil (2) W1 D5 L6 Pts:8
22. Stuart Maynard W2 D2 L8 Pts:8
23. Billy Dearden W2 D2 L8 Pts:8

Kewell had been sacked after game 11, Craig Short would get one more game.

The above table tells us all we need to know about SM, worse than Fullarton and Ardley- god we are in real trouble

[legs77]

I’m not defending the rest of them. They’re all ****e!
Baldwin is the best of a bad bunch.
Cameron is the worst.

Well that is your opinion I say Cameron is better than Brindley and Rawlinson if those two take his shirt you will see that too.

What is clear we need new CBs and also we need some more quality in CM too.

[Davy500]

How many times do we have to do that goal kick process before they realise it does nothing? Slocombe to cameron, back to slowcombe who the walks up the pitch before hoofing to to no one. They will alway do that because they are too stupid to think about what they are doing.

Those two are abosolute f*cki*g garbage. I see some are defending Slocombe; why, he is f*cki*g garbage? His distribution is an absolute f*cki*g joke, there is no urgency in his play. When he went down injured I was half way hoping between a seaon ending injury and a career ending one. A good keeper would start the build up to a new play, him, he just hold on to the ball until the opposition have sorted themselves out and are ready for us.

As for Maynard, heis soout of his depth it is embarrassing, he doesn't even reailse how bad we were today. In his interview claiming we were the better side, promising same old same old for the rest of the season. There is no hope for a turn around, attendance is going to plummet if he stays.

Think Slocambe has been a bit unfortunate tbh, he has made some excellent saves in recent games, and he can not be blamed for a poor midfield that is easily overun, a poor manager, and slocambe comes under continous pressure

[upthemaggies]

There is no hope for a turn around, attendance is going to plummet if he stays.

Saturday home gates only table with Maynard's games in bold......

1. Sat 14/Oct/2023 16,638 v Mansfield Town
2. Sat 28/Oct/2023 16,083 v Wrexham
3. Sat 12/Aug/2023 12,950 v Grimsby Town
5. Sat 18/Nov/2023 11,909 v Bradford City
6. Sat 24/Feb/2024 11,470 v Crewe Alexandra
7. Sat 27/Jan/2024 11,243 v Barrow
8. Sat 9/Dec/2023 11,040 v Walsall
9. Sat 23/Sep/2023 10,648 v Forest Green Rovers
11. Sat 9/Mar/2024 10,224 v Wimbledon
12. Sat 26/Aug/2023 10,174 v Tranmere Rovers
13. Sat 23/Mar/2024 9,967 v Salford City
14. Sat 2/Sep/2023 9,846 v Accrington Stanley

[BCnotts18]

How many times do we have to do that goal kick process before they realise it does nothing? Slocombe to cameron, back to slowcombe who the walks up the pitch before hoofing to to no one. They will alway do that because they are too stupid to think about what they are doing.

Those two are abosolute f*cki*g garbage. I see some are defending Slocombe; why, he is f*cki*g garbage? His distribution is an absolute f*cki*g joke, there is no urgency in his play. When he went down injured I was half way hoping between a seaon ending injury and a career ending one. A good keeper would start the build up to a new play, him, he just hold on to the ball until the opposition have sorted themselves out and are ready for us.

As for Maynard, heis soout of his depth it is embarrassing, he doesn't even reailse how bad we were today. In his interview claiming we were the better side, promising same old same old for the rest of the season. There is no hope for a turn around, attendance is going to plummet if he stays.

While I agree slocombe was poor today, wishing a season ending/career ending injury on one of our own players is ridiculous.

[hissingdwarf]

Well that is your opinion I say Cameron is better than Brindley and Rawlinson if those two take his shirt you will see that too.

What is clear we need new CBs and also we need some more quality in CM too.

We're close to needing a new 11 in the summer.

We don't have a solid spine at all. Robertson has looked a good signing. We build around him because I'd expect Jones and Macca to be off. In fact, if we had a time machine, I'd go back and put macca up for sale in the Jan window and see what we could get for him.

We need a solid formation. 3 at the back has proven to be too much for us to deal with. Last season, attacking flair and momentum hid the shaky defence. That and the motivational skills of Luke Williams.

Now we look defeated on the first kick off.

The list of needs is endless!

I'll end by saying a manager who has input into transfers is a must. We don't need another coach that'll follow the lead of the brothers and play possession based, 3 at the back and no say in who comes in.

We need a manager, not a head coach. Over to you brothers...because if you don't change paths soon...we'll be languishing at the bottom...if not relegated again.

[the_anticlough]

You can only look at those attendances figures with anguish

It's taken decades (and Covid) for us to get numbers like that, and for the future of the club that is more important than any single season's outcome, style of play, current recruitment policy. The new and returning fans have given Notts County FC a chance to re-establish itself higher up the leagues. We're threatening to squander this chance completely.

[Davy500]

How many times do we have to do that goal kick process before they realise it does nothing? Slocombe to cameron, back to slowcombe who the walks up the pitch before hoofing to to no one. They will alway do that because they are too stupid to think about what they are doing.

Those two are abosolute f*cki*g garbage. I see some are defending Slocombe; why, he is f*cki*g garbage? His distribution is an absolute f*cki*g joke, there is no urgency in his play. When he went down injured I was half way hoping between a seaon ending injury and a career ending one. A good keeper would start the build up to a new play, him, he just hold on to the ball until the opposition have sorted themselves out and are ready for us.

As for Maynard, heis soout of his depth it is embarrassing, he doesn't even reailse how bad we were today. In his interview claiming we were the better side, promising same old same old for the rest of the season. There is no hope for a turn around, attendance is going to plummet if he stays.

Even worse Notts paid compensation for SM, what does SM bring to the table,

[hissingdwarf]

Just watched the interview. He should be sacked just for that. How in Gods name he can say some of that rubbish without laughing!

Played well? Gave their all? Left it all on the field???

Are you taking the piss mate? Jesus H.

[i961pie]

9,967 gate

noticeably lower than usual for a Saturday fixture this season

Almost 10,000 and they bought next to nothing, that's pretty good to be fair.

[BanjoPie]

If I was given ten players to clear out, I'd choose Cameron 10 times. He is a nailed on LB/LCB and captain (because he's the worst of those as well) in my all time worst Notts team and I've been a fan for over 50 years. And, at risk of being a complete **** about this, I really hope he's reading it.

“If this is the worst Notts team you have seen in the last 50 years then I would say you must have been going to the wrong ground”

[Davy500]

Just watched the interview. He should be sacked just for that. How in Gods name he can say some of that rubbish without laughing!

Played well? Gave their all? Left it all on the field???

Are you taking the piss mate? Jesus H.

The sad thing is- that having levelled the game was there for Notts to win, and then of course they allow Salford to take the lead through nothing by having the midfield torn apart , and it should have been 3-1 bar a brilliant save from slocambe

[i961pie]

There was more interest in the stands than on the pitch. The photo selfie brigade were happy when Ryan Giggs and Steve Bruce turned up. Carl Robinson joined them second half and even Colchester manager Danny Cowley came also.
Maynards after match I review was a joke.

[51Magpie]

The moving of Jones to RWB was mind boggling as on the other side Chicksen does not have the energy/pace to play wing back now he was hung out to dry there.

Chicksen to me looks like one of our better options for CB. He's one of our most experienced players at a higher level, he's competent and always a trier.

[crazyfists]

Reedtz please get rid of Maynard to give someone time to sort out who they want and don't. You're going to undo all your good work by leaving Maynard in too long.

[keldsyke]

Reedtz please get rid of Maynard to give someone time to sort out who they want and don't. You're going to undo all your good work by leaving Maynard in too long.

The worrying thing in your post is that if a new coach comes in they probably won’t have any say in who goes and comes in and it may be down to this bizzare setup the brothers have implemented.

[Rainbowpie]

i come on this board week in week out. offer my opinion which is often ignored. i have a season ticket , go to away games have an area in my house as a shrine to notts. my daughter sponsors didzy and has been mascot
Please Maynard **** off and take Cameron with you. Your killing my club but not just that your killing mine and my daughters enthusiasm.
we have been to training sessions, vip bookings and have had personal experiences you just don't get at other clubs but that feeling of togetherness that was created through last season has been destroyed
Honestly i could pick a better team with better tactics. I struggle day in and day out running my business but i sacrifice every day for what i believe. I wish our players and manager would do the same

[Glad2BeAPie]

Season over!! Our gates will plummet , brothers have brought upon themselves with poor appointments, poor recruitment and yoo much interfering
They've never Interfered, left it all to others to run the club

[SmiffyPie]

They lost a bit of cred in the close season when they either decided, or took advice, to not chop the defensive dead wood. As for this appointment? Either they were very naive or SM put on a bloody good presentation?

[Davy500]

Reedtz please get rid of Maynard to give someone time to sort out who they want and don't. You're going to undo all your good work by leaving Maynard in too long.

This is totally on the them. I accept that they are not perfect, but they paid compensation for a failure with no experience- just admit you got it wrong and please change it before next season
I hope they do not stick with SM, because they dont want to admit they were wrong, and if they give him enough time he will come good - a very risky strategy

[LaxtonLad]

Maynard might as well pass the “tactics” sheet to the enemy manager and tell him to watch for the slow, slow, predictable midfielders up to their usual sloppy immobility. And tell him not to laugh too much.

[Davy500]

Maynard might as well pass the “tactics” sheet to the enemy manager and tell him to watch for the slow, slow, predictable midfielders up to their usual sloppy immobility. And tell him not to laugh too much.

Think the enemy managers are laughing every time they come to meadow lane

[durhampie]

That was a load of rubbish, If this guy is anywhere this club next season, then I'm afraid there will be plenty of empty seats. He shows no emotion or leadership, but just stands there arms folded convinced that he is watching a different game to everyone else..

[SmiffyPie]

Just need FGR to lose another because the way we are playing I struggle to see our next 3 pts.

[BigFatPie]

Other than the first 5-10 minutes of each half absolutely appalling. Completely on the coach imo, the players have deficiencies but they were performing perfectly well at home until this idiot turned up.

Maynard out.

[Little15]

Surely we're beyond saying "the rot had started under Williams" now. I wasn't particularly concerned by losing him at the time, but what has transpired since demonstrates that this guy simply cannot set up a team to compete in remotely the same way. All this whilst saying he only needed to tweak thinks to improve us. It's been a disaster - Tuesday was an anomaly against a poor, unmotivated opposition.

[WarsopPie]

25902

Just tried watching Maynard’s after game presser.
Had to turn it off soon as said “Chicksen was Excellent”

[Woodypie]

Just need FGR to lose another because the way we are playing I struggle to see our next 3 pts. Watch out Smiffy, I said exactly that last week and got abuse!

[SmiffyPie]

Watch out Smiffy, I said exactly that last week and got abuse!I'm used to it Woody. I was saying stuff 12 months ago that people are now coming out with and got slagged off by those that know better (my backside!).

[jackal2]

On Tuesday night, a large life raft floated in front of Stuart Maynard courtesy of a 3-0 win, featuring a great performance by Jodi Jones who set up two goals with good service from the left side and really looked back on form.

Unfortunately today, our regular right-wing-back (Nemane) was unavailable, so the Head Coach had a choice:

a) Go with Sam Austin or Tobi Adebayo (if fit) from the start at RWB and therefore disrupt the team minimally from Tuesday night, leaving Jodi Jones in his natural and far stronger position on the left, bubbling from the previous game, or

b) Move Jodi Jones - probably raring to go again in his best position - to the opposite side of the field where he is noticeably less effective and bring in Adam Chicksen, who struggles in the wing-back position at this level because he can't often beat his man.

Now I'm one of those on this message board who hasn't jumped on Stuart Maynard's back and has said on several occasions that the owners will want a decent 'sample size' of games before reaching a judgement on him, but I'm afraid today made my mind up.

Stuart Maynard is one of surely a tiny minority of both fans AND managers who would have looked at the question above and picked Option B today. I'm sure he has been on many coaching courses, studied tactics in great detail and no doubt watched our opposition very thoroughly in preparing for games, but something that marks out the best managers is simplicity - an ability to see the obvious, not over-complicate things, to deploy players in a positions on the park where they feel most confident.

It should not have taken 30 seconds of decision-making time in team selection, let alone half a football match today, to realise that Jodi Jones needed to be let loose again on the left. We literally wasted a half of football today in the attacking sense, and when SM FINALLY corrected his error, Jodi looked like a different player in a team that looked more balanced.

But then, no sooner did we get the equaliser than SM made another substitution - Didzy for Jatta - that threw things off once more. Sam Slocombe - presumably under instruction - kept hitting long aimless balls to the big man who was no longer on the pitch, and you could see the fluency and confidence levels in the team start to fall again. There were several near calamities in defence in the final quarter of the game even before Salford got the winner.

Sorry SM, but for me the sample size is now big enough, and your inability today to make simple team selection decisions that could have built on the momentum from Tuesday night has tipped the balance in my mind. Consistency was the key after Tuesday and you went for unnecessary change. This was your opportunity to show you could get the simple but big calls right and get a roll going, but whether it was overthinking or tactical naivety, you blew it.

[1955pie]

Saturday home gates only table with Maynard's games in bold......

1. Sat 14/Oct/2023 16,638 v Mansfield Town
2. Sat 28/Oct/2023 16,083 v Wrexham
3. Sat 12/Aug/2023 12,950 v Grimsby Town
5. Sat 18/Nov/2023 11,909 v Bradford City
6. Sat 24/Feb/2024 11,470 v Crewe Alexandra
7. Sat 27/Jan/2024 11,243 v Barrow
8. Sat 9/Dec/2023 11,040 v Walsall
9. Sat 23/Sep/2023 10,648 v Forest Green Rovers
11. Sat 9/Mar/2024 10,224 v Wimbledon
12. Sat 26/Aug/2023 10,174 v Tranmere Rovers
13. Sat 23/Mar/2024 9,967 v Salford City
14. Sat 2/Sep/2023 9,846 v Accrington Stanley



I think to be fair you need to take the first 3 out. Large away followings.
But I agree that we are going into a rapid downhill spiral. 4000 season tickets next year if we are lucky.
Maynard’s interview today has made my mind up. You can accept a defeat. You can even accept a bad performance. But you cannot accept the manager saying that apart from the defence that we played well.
2 shots on target. Salford had 7.
There was very little to get excited about.
It shows a complete lack of ambition if he thought that was good enough.
It is an insult to the 9500 Notts’ fans who know what we saw.
How can anyone be looking forward to next season with even a little bit of hope and optimism? Dread is closer to it.

[nw6pie]

I said a few weeks ago that I’d give SM four more games before making up my mind about him, and today was the fourth game. In short, he’s a nice guy who’s not up to the job.

Losing five home games on the bounce is pretty unforgivable, and it’s hard to see where the next home win or even draw is coming from. We are so sluggish in possession, it’s painful to watch. He’s not helped by having some of the division’s worst defenders (Macari was the only bright spot back there today), but we are going backwards fast - which is a rare instance of us doing anything at pace.

I can’t see the owners getting rid of SM this season, but they need to be honest that it’s not worked and we need major changes both on and off the pitch in the close season. Otherwise next season will be a complete car crash.

[Togtastic]

On Tuesday night, a large life raft floated in front of Stuart Maynard courtesy of a 3-0 win, featuring a great performance by Jodi Jones who set up two goals with good service from the left side and really looked back on form.

Unfortunately today, our regular right-wing-back (Nemane) was unavailable, so the Head Coach had a choice:

a) Go with Sam Austin or Tobi Adebayo (if fit) from the start at RWB and therefore disrupt the team minimally from Tuesday night, leaving Jodi Jones in his natural and far stronger position on the left, bubbling from the previous game, or

b) Move Jodi Jones - probably raring to go again in his best position - to the opposite side of the field where he is noticeably less effective and bring in Adam Chicksen, who struggles in the wing-back position at this level because he can't often beat his man.

Now I'm one of those on this message board who hasn't jumped on Stuart Maynard's back and has said on several occasions that the owners will want a decent 'sample size' of games before reaching a judgement on him, but I'm afraid today made my mind up.

Stuart Maynard is one of surely a tiny minority of both fans AND managers who would have looked at the question above and picked Option B today. I'm sure he has been on many coaching courses, studied tactics in great detail and no doubt watched our opposition very thoroughly in preparing for games, but something that marks out the best managers is simplicity - an ability to see the obvious, not over-complicate things, to deploy players in a positions on the park where they feel most confident.

It should not have taken 30 seconds of decision-making time in team selection, let alone half a football match today, to realise that Jodi Jones needed to be let loose again on the left. We literally wasted a half of football today in the attacking sense, and when SM FINALLY corrected his error, Jodi looked like a different player in a team that looked more balanced.

But then, no sooner did we get the equaliser than SM made another substitution - Didzy for Jatta - that threw things off once more. Sam Slocombe - presumably under instruction - kept hitting long aimless balls to the big man who was no longer on the pitch, and you could see the fluency and confidence levels in the team start to fall again. There were several near calamities in defence in the final quarter of the game even before Salford got the winner.

Sorry SM, but for me the sample size is now big enough, and your inability today to make simple team selection decisions that could have built on the momentum from Tuesday night has tipped the balance in my mind. Consistency was the key after Tuesday and you went for unnecessary change. This was your opportunity to show you could get the simple but big calls right and get a roll going, but whether it was overthinking or tactical naivety, you blew it.

I agree wholeheartedly with your view. We were at home to Salford, we should be going out to blast them out the park not play Chicksen (an honest pro) whose first thought is to go backwards rather than attack. I have previously been happy laying the blame at the players door but today's starting setup defies belief and the manager is entirely responsible.

[Elite_Pie]

When he went down injured I was half way hoping between a seaon ending injury and a career ending one.

I'm feeling really down, but that has to be one of the worst posts I've ever read on here.

You are clearly a sick individual.

[M0ufMk3]

“If this is the worst Notts team you have seen in the last 50 years then I would say you must have been going to the wrong ground”

I didn't say that. What I did say was that he would make my worst Notts team of the last 50 years (and as captain). Although if we are just taking the period since Christmas there's a deal of evidence, but not enough to challenge the Gudjon and Dearden years which were truly miserable.

[M0ufMk3]

Stuart Maynard is one of surely a tiny minority of both fans AND managers who would have looked at the question above and picked Option B today. I'm sure he has been on many coaching courses, studied tactics in great detail and no doubt watched our opposition very thoroughly in preparing for games, but something that marks out the best managers is simplicity - an ability to see the obvious, not over-complicate things, to deploy players in a positions on the park where they feel most confident.

Spot on. Football may well be a more complex game than many fans allow, but crucially, a manager's job (in any walk of life) is to distill complexity into a message which is as simple as it can be without becoming ineffective.

[MapperleyMagpie]

I'm feeling really down, but that has to be one of the worst posts I've ever read on here.

You are clearly a sick individual.

Couldn't agree more Elite. I'm pissed off like most on here but wouldn't in my darkest moment suggest such a vile thing.

[Elite_Pie]

Unfortunately today, our regular right-wing-back (Nemane) was unavailable, so the Head Coach had a choice:

A choice I think he got badly wrong. Although I'm typing this with hindsight, I would have said the same when handing in the teamsheet at 2pm. Chicksen doesn't have the forward skills to play the wingback role at this level, but he's decent on the left of a back three. My back three would have been Macari, Cameron and Chicksen. Nemane would have been replaced with TAR or Randall, the fact that neither set foot on the pitch makes you wonder why they are here.

[OldMagpie60]

A choice I think he got badly wrong. Although I'm typing this with hindsight, I would have said the same when handing in the teamsheet at 2pm. Chicksen doesn't have the forward skills to play the wingback role at this level, but he's decent on the left of a back three. My back three would have been Macari, Cameron and Chicksen. Nemane would have been replaced with TAR or Randall, the fact that neither set foot on the pitch makes you wonder why they are here.

Moving JJ, 21 record assists from the left, to RWB and bringing Chicksen in as LWB (which he will never ever be) is in itself a sackable offence for SM, end off!!
For god’s sake owners, bring this pain to an end now before we wreck next season as well as this one. 8pts from 12 games and 5 home defeats is an absolute disgrace.

[BigFatPie]

He’s played Jones on the right for at least some of every game he’s been in charge, in fact time wise he’s probably played Jones more on the right than the left. Normally it’s a swap with our best rwb rather than Chicksen but at least Chicksen has had some success at Lwb even if it’s obvious to anyone with eyes he’s well past it at EFL level.

It was a stupid thing to do the first time he did it( Mansfield?) let alone the 10th.

[maddogslater]

I think he got lucky playing jatta up top at Bradford and Ashby in goal because of injuries, he got it badly wrong today.

[midshipman]

There is only one team going to win this.

Wht the FK does Maynard tell them? He is a total tosser. ....
He is not the only tosser he joins another even bigger tosser captain and so called
defender (insult to proper defenders ) His best position where I would play every
week is left back off the field. After today I cannot him use his name except tosser
will have to do

[ThePieWhoCameIn]

Both goals were caused by really weak play in centre-midfield.
We have to be stronger there, they mugged us twice. Cameron was very poor for the first, but we shouldn't have players breaking on us due to weak midfield play in the first place.

Agree, but it happens, at all levels. That's when defenders have to step up. Their player still had quite a lot to do, but Cameron just made it really easy for him. It was so lazy, there was no determination to win it, no 'thou shall not pass', not much of anything really. It was so weak I think it's another one in the 'brain fart goals' column. He looks like he doesn't really enjoy defending, which would actually explain quite a lot.
If we're going to persist with the back 3 - and this would be the same under any manager - I would go with Baldwin, Warner, Macari. I don't think it matters too much who's in which position but Warner looks least confident on the ball.

However, Warners only on loan and we have no cover if someone isn't available which seems to happen on a weekly basis.

I think regardless of who's managing next season, that lack of depth has to be addressed. Not making it all about 1 player, but if Cameron is a regular at the back next season, that will indicate business as usual and we'll be in deep ****.

[the_anticlough]

Agree, but it happens, at all levels. That's when defenders have to step up. Their player still had quite a lot to do, but Cameron just made it really easy for him. It was so lazy, there was no determination to win it, no 'thou shall not pass', not much of anything really. It was so weak I think it's another one in the 'brain fart goals' column. He looks like he doesn't really enjoy defending, which would actually explain quite a lot.
If we're going to persist with the back 3 - and this would be the same under any manager - I would go with Baldwin, Warner, Macari. I don't think it matters too much who's in which position but Warner looks least confident on the ball.

However, Warners only on loan and we have no cover if someone isn't available which seems to happen on a weekly basis.

I think regardless of who's managing next season, that lack of depth has to be addressed. Not making it all about 1 player, but if Cameron is a regular at the back next season, that will indicate business as usual and we'll be in deep ****.

My thinking was always that Baldwin and Cameron would be the junior partners at the back, that we'd recruit another senior CB and GK because they were the two biggest areas of need in the close season.

My post now is not about Cameron, who started the season badly, then stabilised, started to play OK, but has been badly exposed and deficient in recent weeks under SM.

Thinking it through...will he ever settle into the form and role that won him a place in the NL team of the year last year?
We'd need to be playing the dominant style that allows him to defend less and playmake more. For that we'd need to boss midfield, with Palmer for example, and be strong all around. LW's team achieved this in the NL and in L2, we saw it with our own eyes until we came up against the very top teams, but we were a work in progress.

Would we ever regain that swagger, confidence and dominance under SM to allow us to see the likes of Cameron at his best at LCB? I just can't see it - at all
Cameron signed a 2-year deal and has just turned 27, maybe his best is still to come.
It's first things first for me. We have a bigger problem than the form or qualities of one player. I want to see our squad lead by somebody who can inspire them and fill them with confidence. The team has been built to play a certain way, we need quality but we also need motivation and confidence.

[drillerpie]

My thinking was always that Baldwin and Cameron would be the junior partners at the back, that we'd recruit another senior CB and GK because they were the two biggest areas of need in the close season.

My post now is not about Cameron, who started the season badly, then stabilised, started to play OK, but has been badly exposed and deficient in recent weeks under SM.


He's captain and first name on the teamsheet and your appraisal of him (as someone who has always spoken highly of him) is that his performances have ranged from bad to OK. After 40 games.

He should be nowhere near the captaincy as he doesn't set a good example, and shouldn't be more than a squad player.

I don't see how he can have been 'exposed' by a manager who has tried to make us less open and protect the defence more.

He's not good enough for League 2 and to be honest I would question how good he is in the NL if you put him in a 'normal' team i.e., one that isn’t full of players way better than the level, meaning he has to do very little defending.

[i961pie]

A choice I think he got badly wrong. Although I'm typing this with hindsight, I would have said the same when handing in the teamsheet at 2pm. Chicksen doesn't have the forward skills to play the wingback role at this level, but he's decent on the left of a back three. My back three would have been Macari, Cameron and Chicksen. Nemane would have been replaced with TAR or Randall, the fact that neither set foot on the pitch makes you wonder why they are here.

My sentiments entirely, I said so has soon as I heard the team selection.

[the_anticlough]

He's captain and first name on the teamsheet and your appraisal of him (as someone who has always spoken highly of him) is that his performances have ranged from bad to OK. After 40 games.

He should be nowhere near the captaincy as he doesn't set a good example, and shouldn't be more than a squad player.

I don't see how he can have been 'exposed' by a manager who has tried to make us less open and protect the defence more..

Hardly anyone's looking good when it's 8pts out of 36, 5 consecutive home defeats, and a freefall down the table.

I think we have to distinguish between someone who has actually achieved something for this club and someone who hasn't at all (apart from negative records).

Cameron has given 3 years solid service.
Played what....around 110 games?
Captained the club to promotion
Lifted the promotion trophy at Wembley
Provided the cross that lead to our late equaliser in the final
Made NL team of the season last year
Has been a solid pro for us really over all that period

Many players have been asked to step up to a higher level. Do we think that's easy? Do we think they don't want to step up? Be better and advance their careers? Do we think they aren't trying? Do they deserve our vitriol and contempt for trying? Or achieving what they have already?

He's one member of a large squad that it's trying to step up and in doing so move the club forward. There's only one word for most of the hate on these threads S-C-A-P-E-G-O-A-T

[BanjoPie]

Hardly anyone's looking good when it's 8pts out of 36, 5 consecutive home defeats, and a freefall down the table.

I think we have to distinguish between someone who has actually achieved something for this club and someone who hasn't at all (apart from negative records).

Cameron has given 3 years solid service.
Played what....around 110 games?
Captained the club to promotion
Lifted the promotion trophy at Wembley
Provided the cross that lead to our late equaliser in the final
Made NL team of the season last year
Has been a solid pro for us really over all that period

Many players have been asked to step up to a higher level. Do we think that's easy? Do we think they don't want to step up? Be better and advance their careers? Do we think they aren't trying? Do they deserve our vitriol and contempt for trying? Or achieving what they have already?

He's one member of a large squad that it's trying to step up and in doing so move the club forward. There's only one word for most of the hate on these threads S-C-A-P-E-G-O-A-T

Well said Mr Clough

[the_anticlough]

Well said Mr Clough

Er...call me Anti

[BanjoPie]

....
He is not the only tosser he joins another even bigger tosser captain and so called
defender (insult to proper defenders ) His best position where I would play every
week is left back off the field. After today I cannot him use his name except tosser
will have to do

Another vitriolic clown - F off, we don’t want you on our forum

[BanjoPie]

Er...call me Anti

Ok Aunty ;)

[drillerpie]

Hardly anyone's looking good when it's 8pts out of 36, 5 consecutive home defeats, and a freefall down the table.

I think we have to distinguish between someone who has actually achieved something for this club and someone who hasn't at all (apart from negative records).

Cameron has given 3 years solid service.
Played what....around 110 games?
Captained the club to promotion
Lifted the promotion trophy at Wembley
Provided the cross that lead to our late equaliser in the final
Made NL team of the season last year
Has been a solid pro for us really over all that period

Many players have been asked to step up to a higher level. Do we think that's easy? Do we think they don't want to step up? Be better and advance their careers? Do we think they aren't trying? Do they deserve our vitriol and contempt for trying? Or achieving what they have already?

He's one member of a large squad that it's trying to step up and in doing so move the club forward. There's only one word for most of the hate on these threads S-C-A-P-E-G-O-A-T

I'm not sure I know what your point is.

First paragraph implies almost everyone's playing badly (not really true IMO) and by your own opinion Cameron has ranged between 'bad' and 'OK', an opinion which I share. Most players have done better than that and a few continue to play well even with our dip in form.

Second paragraph attempts to make it about Maynard I think.

Third paragraph is an appeal to nostalgia, although I'm not sure he gets one bullet point for solid service and another one for solid pro. Or for that matter a bullet point for captaining us to promotion and another for lifting the trophy (as captain).

Fourth paragraph, is it easy? No it isn't, thats why its *****ly important we have people who are good at it. There has been and will be no vitriol from me, but I refuse to deny what is happening in front of my eyes.

Fifth paragraph goes into rhetorical overdrive about hate and scapegoating which I agree are bad, but I'm afriad I think you use these words to try and stop people criticising his performances.

But at the end of all that, I still didn't see any convincing assertion from you that he is actually good at defending, which is kind of the main issue really.

[jackal2]

Hardly anyone's looking good when it's 8pts out of 36, 5 consecutive home defeats, and a freefall down the table.

I think we have to distinguish between someone who has actually achieved something for this club and someone who hasn't at all (apart from negative records).

Cameron has given 3 years solid service.
Played what....around 110 games?
Captained the club to promotion
Lifted the promotion trophy at Wembley
Provided the cross that lead to our late equaliser in the final
Made NL team of the season last year
Has been a solid pro for us really over all that period

Many players have been asked to step up to a higher level. Do we think that's easy? Do we think they don't want to step up? Be better and advance their careers? Do we think they aren't trying? Do they deserve our vitriol and contempt for trying? Or achieving what they have already?

He's one member of a large squad that it's trying to step up and in doing so move the club forward. There's only one word for most of the hate on these threads S-C-A-P-E-G-O-A-T

I'm certainly not seeking to scapegoat Kyle Cameron and yes, you have to acknowledge his role in last season's success, which was considerable, particularly in terms of his ability on the ball.

The question is, as you point out, can he step up to the standard required in League To where his ability (or lack of ability) as a defender is coming under greater examination compared with the relatively 'flat track' of the National League.

Cameron has been found wanting on numerous occasions this season, and what worries me is that I'm not seeing much learning or improvement. Yesterday's first goal was a classic example.

If Kyle has anywhere near enough defensive and positional awareness then he must have known that as McAleny bore down on goal he needed to stop him, and the bottom line is that he is primarily there to be a defender. What was needed was a challenge that made absolutely sure that ball and man did not get past, even if it meant a foul, which at worst would probably earn a yellow card because the other centre-halves were in reasonable proximity. Instead Cameron made the laziest, most half-hearted, pathetic attempt to win the ball you could ever imagine, and McAleny duly scored.

If you're aspiring to be a Football League (Two) centre-half and you think THAT challenge was a sufficient effort to stop the opponent, then there's no two ways about it, you're on your way back to the National League either with the club you're at, or because you've had to find another club.

I was watching the game live but I gather Mark Stallard on the radio couldn't believe what he saw and remarked upon it. Kyle Cameron said a couple of weeks ago that he and the players were "giving 100%". Well skipper, all credit for your achievements last season, but if that's genuinely 100% of what you've got as a defender, then you're not good enough to do that job in League Two. That's not scapegoating, it's just telling a truth that needs to be understood, not least by him if he's ever going to improve.

[the_anticlough]

I'm not sure I know what your point is.

First paragraph implies almost everyone's playing badly (not really true IMO) and by your own opinion Cameron has ranged between 'bad' and 'OK', an opinion which I share. Most players have done better than that and a few continue to play well even with our dip in form.

Second paragraph attempts to make it about Maynard I think.

Third paragraph is an appeal to nostalgia, although I'm not sure he gets one bullet point for solid service and another one for solid pro. Or for that matter a bullet point for captaining us to promotion and another for lifting the trophy (as captain).

Fourth paragraph, is it easy? No it isn't, thats why its *****ly important we have people who are good at it. There has been and will be no vitriol from me, but I refuse to deny what is happening in front of my eyes.

Fifth paragraph goes into rhetorical overdrive about hate and scapegoating which I agree are bad, but I'm afriad I think you use these words to try and stop people criticising his performances.

But at the end of all that, I still didn't see any convincing assertion from you that he is actually good at defending, which is kind of the main issue really.

You are to textual analysis what SM is to football league management.

That's a failed dissection there, driller. What's the point really? Go on, ask yourself...
The misreading of 'exposed' in the earlier post told me a lot

FWIW, if anyone's mentoring KC this year they should say that the 'OK' part of his season happened to be a fair run of respectable and solid L2 performances, even with the odd MoM thrown in there. And that for him, in his first full EFL season, is something to build on I think.

Those who want to throw what he's achieved here in the bin, and bury him, are welcome to their Wicker Man vendetta.
I won't be joining them.

[tommopie8]

Haven't bothered to read through the entire thread but if the pelters are for Cameron for their first goal you need to look 5 seconds further back at Austin ****housing a tackle in the middle. Throw yourself in man not this half hearted stick a leg in and hope for the best.

[jackal2]

Haven't bothered to read through the entire thread but if the pelters are for Cameron for their first goal you need to look 5 seconds further back at Austin ****housing a tackle in the middle. Throw yourself in man not this half hearted stick a leg in and hope for the best.

Yep, Austin was culpable too - no excuses for him - but Cameron's role as a defender is to get his teammate out of trouble when something like that happens. Most of the time when defenders have to intervene, it's because something went wrong previously, but that's part of their job description. Cameron's effort to intervene was utterly pathetic and deserves the the criticism it's getting. Our beloved Neil Warnock certainly would have had something to say if one of his centre-halves had surrendered so meekly.

[jackal2]

Really poor.

They're playing like Maynard's thought processes - hesitant, muddled, scared
And it starts with him. The answer to Nemane being out isn't to take Jones away from the left and put the toothless Chicksen there. From being down on one side, he's made sure we're down on both

Nemame - Austin
Jones -Jones

is obviously better than

Nemane - Jones
Jones- Chicksen

If he says it was to 'nullify' whatever Salford have, then I give up completely

I wrote my comments last night and this morning without having seen your post above, but we've seen exactly the same thing.

If Stuart Maynard can't get simple calls like that right, then there's no hope for him. He talks about consistency and getting "back to back wins" to build momentum, but then makes decisions that directly kill off any potential momentum he had from the Bradford game.

[the_anticlough]

I wrote my comments last night and this morning without having seen your post above, but we've seen exactly the same thing.

If Stuart Maynard can't get simple calls like that right, then there's no hope for him. He talks about consistency and getting "back to back wins" to build momentum, but then makes decisions that directly kill off any potential momentum he had from the Bradford game.

I think the whole ground saw that one, Jackal :)
Moving JJ to the right isn't the worst part of it. I always hate it when managers come in and have to 're-learn' all the old lessons the previous managers had to learn. While all us fans can do here is groan and say here we go again.

The evidence on Chicks at wing-back isn't in the 2022-23 goal total, as great as that was, it's in the film of every game in our run-in last year, and whenever he's appeared there this season. We all know Chicks is a solid defender, but we also know he doesn't have what it takes to attack L2 defences. It's horrible that we have to see SM learn that during the last throw of the dice to keep our season alive.

[the_anticlough]

which makes you ask 'how is the team picked?'
will it be just SM and Matt S in private consultation? We get that JOB won't be consulted, but do they get the input of Alves and Weal who know more about the squad's capabilities. LW wouldn't go anywhere near Chicks at wing-back for a home game in L2

[OP67]

I love how Cameron throws his toys out the pram for both their goals even when HE was at fault for both of them XD Nearly a hatrick of f**k ups from him!!! What on earth was McGoldrick doing near the end??

There needs to be a big clearout this summer including some still under contract.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgFbAbyX3pQ

[drillerpie]

You are to textual analysis what SM is to football league management.

That's a failed dissection there, driller. What's the point really? Go on, ask yourself...
The misreading of 'exposed' in the earlier post told me a lot

FWIW, if anyone's mentoring KC this year they should say that the 'OK' part of his season happened to be a fair run of respectable and solid L2 performances, even with the odd MoM thrown in there. And that for him, in his first full EFL season, is something to build on I think.

Those who want to throw what he's achieved here in the bin, and bury him, are welcome to their Wicker Man vendetta.
I won't be joining them.

I don't understand why you are so touchy on this subject. This is not a vendetta. I am not going to leave a horses head on his pillow or boil his pet rabbit. I am a football fan on a football forum saying in a perfectly polite and inoffensive way that I don't think a player is good enough.

Cameron came to us with League 2 experience from a (at the time) promotion rival, and played well as a ball playing defender in a team full to the brim with talent. I personally dont think he did anything superhuman by helping us get promotion - that's what he was brought in to do. He did his job and did it well - well done.

Then if memory serves he stalled on signing a new contract and eventually decided we were worth it (not sure if that was because we increased our offer or interest from other clubs fell away). He got his improved deal (fair play to him) but I don't see where the all this nostalgia and sentiment comes from. For me he is nothing like the talisman figure you describe.

Now he's captain (nominally, because it's JoB who de facto captains the team during games) and a first choice CB in the team with the worst defence in the league. IMO his positioning, pace, decision making under pressure and appetite for physicality have caused us way too many problems this season and his forays forward much less productive.

I cant imagine him ever playing at a higher level or even this one for any length of time as he seemingly doesn't like and isn't very good at defending, which is a much bigger part of the job than when he was cruising last year against much more limited teams. The only thing I rate him for defensively is his heading ability.

Of the undroppables (players who always start when fit) he's probably had the least positive impact on performances and results, again IMO. Why he as captain and one of the first names on the teamsheet should be immune from criticism and given endless chances and time to improve, when everyone else at the club (including owners, recruitment staff, manager and other players) can be commented on just baffles me.

[the_anticlough]

Immune from criticism!?! That's funny - NCM's been a Cameron pile-on for months now. That's why your accusations of wanting to close down criticism won't wash at all.
You won't find me trying to defend yesterday's performance or the key moments. But I can make sure that NCM has at least 1 voice that tries to give a more rounded appraisal of what the player is and has been for us for the last 3 years.
Off out, so more later

[drillerpie]

I love how Cameron throws his toys out the pram for both their goals even when HE was at fault for both of them XD Nearly a hatrick of f**k ups from him!!! What on earth was McGoldrick doing near the end??

There needs to be a big clearout this summer including some still under contract.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgFbAbyX3pQ

I wouldn't say the second was his fault as it wasn't his job to track the runner but its hard to say what he was doing by standing a yard away from the man receiving the ball. He's neither getting tight to their man so he can't chest it exactly where he wants, nor dropping deep. He's just in a kind of limbo. I think he's reluctant to get tight as he doesn't like the physicality and doesn't back himself to recover if he gets rolled.

[JoePass]

I don't understand why you are so touchy on this subject. This is not a vendetta. I am not going to leave a horses head on his pillow or boil his pet rabbit. I am a football fan on a football forum saying in a perfectly polite and inoffensive way that I don't think a player is good enough.

Cameron came to us with League 2 experience from a (at the time) promotion rival, and played well as a ball playing defender in a team full to the brim with talent. I personally dont think he did anything superhuman by helping us get promotion - that's what he was brought in to do. He did his job and did it well - well done.

Then if memory serves he stalled on signing a new contract and eventually decided we were worth it (not sure if that was because we increased our offer or interest from other clubs fell away). He got his improved deal (fair play to him) but I don't see where the all this nostalgia and sentiment comes from. For me he is nothing like the talisman figure you describe.

Now he's captain (nominally, because it's JoB who de facto captains the team during games) and a first choice CB in the team with the worst defence in the league. IMO his positioning, pace, decision making under pressure and appetite for physicality have caused us way too many problems this season and his forays forward much less productive.

I cant imagine him ever playing at a higher level or even this one for any length of time as he seemingly doesn't like and isn't very good at defending, which is a much bigger part of the job than when he was cruising last year against much more limited teams. The only thing I rate him for defensively is his heading ability.

Of the undroppables (players who always start when fit) he's probably had the least positive impact on performances and results, again IMO. Why he as captain and one of the first names on the teamsheet should be immune from criticism and given endless chances and time to improve, when everyone else at the club (including owners, recruitment staff, manager and other players) can be commented on just baffles me.


Very fair comment, can’t argue with a word of it.

[the_anticlough]

Cameron came to us with League 2 experience from a (at the time) promotion rival,.

That bit's wrong btw. Torquay were from NLS. His previous EFL experience was on short loans. So this is the 1st full season at L2 level.

[drillerpie]

Immune from criticism!?! That's funny - NCM's been a Cameron pile-on for months now. That's why your accusations of wanting to close down criticism won't wash at all.
You won't find me trying to defend yesterday's performance or the key moments. But I can make sure that NCM has at least 1 voice that tries to give a more rounded appraisal of what the player is and has been for us for the last 3 years.
Off out, so more later

Yeah the criticism has been there for months (make of that what you will) but you also have tried to close down the criticism - the two are not mutually exclusive.

Generally you don't close it down by saying how well he is playing (again make of that what you will) but by using words like vendetta, scapegoat, pile on etc.

[drillerpie]

That bit's wrong btw. Torquay were from NLS. His previous EFL experience was on short loans. So this is the 1st full season at L2 level.

You sure about that?

[the_anticlough]

Those are characterisations of the discourse. An opinion in itself.
I don't think you know what 'closing down criticism' is. As I'm the one making the unfashionable, minority point here I think it's worth asking if anyone's trying to close anyone down, who is it?

[tommopie8]

You sure about that?

They'd literally just beaten us in the play-offs when we took Cameron and Nemane off them.

[drillerpie]

Right ok I see what you're saying. Let me write it more clearly as I didn't word it well:

He came to us from a promotion rival as a player with League 2 experience.

[the_anticlough]

You sure about that?

Yes, you got it wrong. But you won't believe me, so check for yourself.

[drillerpie]

They'd literally just beaten us in the play-offs when we took Cameron and Nemane off them.

Yes that was my point. He was signed as promotion winning (or thereabouts) player.

But the way I worded it might have made it sound like I thought he had League 2 experience with Torquay, which I think is what anticlough was objecting to.

[OP67]

Cameron came to us with League 2 experience from a (at the time) promotion rival, and played well as a ball playing defender in a team full to the brim with talent. I personally dont think he did anything superhuman by helping us get promotion - that's what he was brought in to do. He did his job and did it well - well done.


No he came to us from NLS Torquay, hardly played any games outside the non league on loan. Last season our defence was hardly needed as the ball spent most the time up the other end of the pitch or in our possession. Now he's up against better teams with better organisation and we're no longer winning the possession stats he's struggling. He's just one a few contracted players we need to try and move on in the summer in my opinion.

[drillerpie]

Yes, you got it wrong. But you won't believe me, so check for yourself.

I didn't get it wrong, the way I worded it was slightly ambiguous, that's all.

Why are you hell bent on making this discussion unpleasant?

[drillerpie]

No he came to us from NLS Torquay, hardly played any games outside the non league on loan. Last season our defence was hardly needed as the ball spent most the time up the other end of the pitch or in our possession. Now he's up against better teams with better organisation and we're no longer winning the possession stats he's struggling. He's just one a few contracted players we need to try and move on in the summer in my opinion.

He came from Torquay when they were our promotion rivals in the NL.

[BigFatPie]

I think Cameron would have made a significantly better lwb than Chicksen, but either way there’s literally no reason why Jodi should be moved from that position. 4 or 5 assists in the last game before the head coach took over.

Maynard has done it again and again for various apparent reasons and it’s obviously never worked.

[drillerpie]

Those are characterisations of the discourse. An opinion in itself.
I don't think you know what 'closing down criticism' is. As I'm the one making the unfashionable, minority point here I think it's worth asking if anyone's trying to close anyone down, who is it?

People who make minority points can try to shut down discussion, yes.

Logically there is no reason why that is not possible, and in practice it happens all the time in public discourse.

If people say Cameron isn't very good, tell them why you think he is good. Don't imply they have a vendetta against him, or that he is beyond criticism for sentimental reasons.

Simple as that really.

[ThePieWhoCameIn]

No scapegoating from me, but his little cameo for the first goal highlights a level of defending which is unacceptable, but seems to have been accepted, by the management and the club.

The point I was trying to make, badly, was that if we continue to accept that standard (whoever it's by), and we continue to play this system, with these type of wing-'backs' *, we can expect to carry on shipping goals.

Cameron is coming increasingly under the spotlight because he's now the weakest link. Macari is looking like a player. Baldwin is Baldwin, but I think his positives outweigh the negatives. Cameron maybe just about gets away with it at LCB if the rest of the first choice team is available and performing, but that's rarely been the case recently.

I don't think he's a 'bad' player but he does not have the defensive attitude to play where he does, in our system, at this level let alone the one above.

* Nemane has improved markedly in the past few games on the defensive front, to my immense surprise.

[M0ufMk3]

Okay I've never really rated him (edit - talking about Cameron), but he looks more like a left back (in a four) to me. His problem is that people judge him, understandably but possibly incorrectly, as a 6ft 4 big lad defender when he plays like someone who's 5ft 8.

[maddogslater]

The way he turned his back and stuck a leg out for their 1st was unbelievable

[SinceSept1959]

There's some laughable comments on here and some unjustified scapegoating of certain players on this forum.
There are also some laughable ratings too given some players plus or minus 0.5 for their performances.
Having been brought up reading the Sunday People Sports Pages ,with players given 4/10 for a stinker ,6 being average & anything above between 7 &10 for good to outstanding these 2 & 3 scores are childish and pathetic.
Everyone has an opinion of their favourite and least favourite individuals but true supporters don't undermine individuals , especially during matched.
It was a different game altogether watching , Stubby , Needham, Kilcline etc and their predecessors.
The art of tackling has all but been eliminated by complaints from incoming coaches/ managers from Europe. The bonus is more flair and protection for attacking players but some officials think that a non malicious, mistimed tackle attempt , deserves a card.
Cameron , Chicksen , Baldwin , Nemane are the regular targets on here together with all three GK's.
Cameron has not been as bad as some people make out either as a LB or CB.
Checkback Chicksen as he has been called. has played over 200 plus games in the EFL ,mainly as a LB or CB not a wingback . He was a valuable asset last season getting double figure goals and played well until his injury at Donny ,scoring a great volley which was ruled offside.
Azza has mixed comments on here , again largely undeserved but actual checks back more often than Chicksen !
Nemane is not a defender shouldn't be defending set pieces and his pace should be used as an outball on the HW line to counter attack quickly.
As someone has already said Baldwin is Baldwin.
Reads the game well , heads and tackles but always prone to gaffes . That's why he's playing in League 2.
Regarding the Salford game , there were also glaring errors of judgement by JOB & Didzy which could and should have cost goals. Pleased that those two were not hung out to dry on here like the other six that I mentioned.
We are fortunate to have some talented and very honest players at the club who should be supported at every opportunity. Most fans are grateful that criticism is not widely directed at the players on match days.
Finally , the old saying of Lions led by Donkeys springs to mind.
Tactical Tinkerman is like many match officials . They all know the Laws and Coaching Manuals but don't really get a feel or understanding of the flows of the game.
Don't blame the players when they are only playing to instructions.
Sorry folks if you've got this far . Rant over.

[BanjoPie]

I think Cameron would have made a significantly better lwb than Chicksen, but either way there’s literally no reason why Jodi should be moved from that position. 4 or 5 assists in the last game before the head coach took over.

Maynard has done it again and again for various apparent reasons and it’s obviously never worked.

Would you be saying this if JJ had scored with the 2 shots he had when on the right? - they were very close!!

[Could'vebeenacontender]

Would you be saying this if JJ had scored with the 2 shots he had when on the right? - they were very close!!

That's right
JJ didn't have his best game but three decent shots and 4 or 5 lovely crosses that we didn't get on the end of

[BigFatPie]

Would you be saying this if JJ had scored with the 2 shots he had when on the right? - they were very close!!

If my auntie had testicles etc etc. Jodi’s a great player at this level and he’ll do bits wherever he plays. To take away the creativity when he plays on the left is criminal.

[the_anticlough]

There's some laughable comments on here and some unjustified scapegoating of certain players on this forum.
There are also some laughable ratings too given some players plus or minus 0.5 for their performances.
Having been brought up reading the Sunday People Sports Pages ,with players given 4/10 for a stinker ,6 being average & anything above between 7 &10 for good to outstanding these 2 & 3 scores are childish and pathetic.
Everyone has an opinion of their favourite and least favourite individuals but true supporters don't undermine individuals , especially during matched.
It was a different game altogether watching , Stubby , Needham, Kilcline etc and their predecessors.
The art of tackling has all but been eliminated by complaints from incoming coaches/ managers from Europe. The bonus is more flair and protection for attacking players but some officials think that a non malicious, mistimed tackle attempt , deserves a card.
Cameron , Chicksen , Baldwin , Nemane are the regular targets on here together with all three GK's.
Cameron has not been as bad as some people make out either as a LB or CB.
Checkback Chicksen as he has been called. has played over 200 plus games in the EFL ,mainly as a LB or CB not a wingback . He was a valuable asset last season getting double figure goals and played well until his injury at Donny ,scoring a great volley which was ruled offside.
Azza has mixed comments on here , again largely undeserved but actual checks back more often than Chicksen !
Nemane is not a defender shouldn't be defending set pieces and his pace should be used as an outball on the HW line to counter attack quickly.
As someone has already said Baldwin is Baldwin.
Reads the game well , heads and tackles but always prone to gaffes . That's why he's playing in League 2.
Regarding the Salford game , there were also glaring errors of judgement by JOB & Didzy which could and should have cost goals. Pleased that those two were not hung out to dry on here like the other six that I mentioned.
We are fortunate to have some talented and very honest players at the club who should be supported at every opportunity. Most fans are grateful that criticism is not widely directed at the players on match days.
Finally , the old saying of Lions led by Donkeys springs to mind.
Tactical Tinkerman is like many match officials . They all know the Laws and Coaching Manuals but don't really get a feel or understanding of the flows of the game.
Don't blame the players when they are only playing to instructions.
Sorry folks if you've got this far . Rant over.

I did and it was worth it. Good stuff, especially on the excessive scapegoating and ratings.
I'm like you - years of checking the Sunday People ratings is ingrained in me. It became the benchmark. Now some throw around 2s and 3s or 8s and 9s depending on which way the odd goal went in a 2-1 scoreline

[the_anticlough]

I didn't get it wrong, the way I worded it was slightly ambiguous, that's all.

Why are you hell bent on making this discussion unpleasant?

And you're such a ray of sunshine, aren't you.
Where do you think you fall on the spectrum from pleasant to unpleasant?

[the_anticlough]

People who make minority points can try to shut down discussion, yes.

Logically there is no reason why that is not possible, and in practice it happens all the time in public discourse.

If people say Cameron isn't very good, tell them why you think he is good. Don't imply they have a vendetta against him, or that he is beyond criticism for sentimental reasons.

Simple as that really.

I didn't imply they have a vendetta (misrepresentation!), I said very clearly and directly that there's a vendetta.
The mob mentality on this subject kicked in some time ago here and then a player become fair game for relentless negative posts. It's cowardly, running with the pack of course.

And thanks for trying to write my posts for me, but nah, I'll pass. I'm cool with the points I've made. I'm not, like you, telling others what they should or shouldn't write. I don't expect what I say to have any impact at all. I don't even think about that. But it's good to see many balanced and fair comments on the Cameron thread and sincesept59's post is where I'm at too.

As I've said he's a player with real, tangible achievements at Notts. One of the only players to lift any kind of silverware for us at Wembley in the last 100 years. His achievements don't mean anything? Are we such a 'what have you done for me lately?' fanbase now that actual achievements aren't worth anything? What's the point of trying in the first place then?
That doesn't mean anyone's 'above criticism' (more misrepresentation there) or a 'talisman' (again!), but it'd be good to see some balance, fairness and application to all players equally.
It's been a difficult season, and for sure he's struggled with the step up at times - at the start of the season and also recently, but in between and overall he's shown more than enough to prove himself as a L2 player IMO. Whether that's a captain, first teamer, squad player...we'll see going forward.

[drillerpie]

I didn't imply they have a vendetta (misrepresentation!), I said very clearly and directly that there's a vendetta.
The mob mentality on this subject kicked in some time ago here and then a player become fair game for relentless negative posts. It's cowardly, running with the pack of course.

And thanks for trying to write my posts for me, but nah, I'll pass. I'm cool with the points I've made. I'm not, like you, telling others what they should or shouldn't write. I don't expect what I say to have any impact at all. I don't even think about that. But it's good to see many balanced and fair comments on the Cameron thread and sincesept59's post is where I'm at too.

As I've said he's a player with real, tangible achievements at Notts. One of the only players to lift any kind of silverware for us at Wembley in the last 100 years. His achievements don't mean anything? Are we such a 'what have you done for me lately?' fanbase now that actual achievements aren't worth anything? What's the point of trying in the first place then?
That doesn't mean anyone's 'above criticism' (more misrepresentation there) or a 'talisman' (again!), but it'd be good to see some balance, fairness and application to all players equally.
It's been a difficult season, and for sure he's struggled with the step up at times - at the start of the season and also recently, but in between and overall he's shown more than enough to prove himself as a L2 player IMO. Whether that's a captain, first teamer, squad player...we'll see going forward.

Well it seems very much like you are now implying I'm a coward for criticising Cameron, because other people criticise him too. I think maybe you are overthinking this whole business of minority / majority opinions.

I personally think the most important thing by far when discussing a player / manager, or whoever, is an accurate assessment of his performances. It doesn't matter if 1% or 100% of other posters agree.

I do try to be balanced and apply the same criteria to all players equally. I am often critical of other defenders (Baldwin, usually) and honestly I wouldn't lose any sleep if any of them bar Macari or any of our goalkeepers left the club tomorrow. This is not based on following the mob or being vindictive, but the fact that we have objectively the worst defense in the league and have conceded so many goals through individual errors and laspes in concentration that I literally cannot even remember them all.

I was critical of JoB earlier in the season when he was coming on at 70 mins and making mistakes and not getting in to the game. Now he's playing better I'm complimentary about him and giving him better marks. The fact that he has a magpie tattoo and has been with us for years is lovely but doesnt really factor in to what I see on the pitch. Isn't that how it works? Am I missing something?

As far as I see it any sentimental debts were paid at the end of last season with the plaudits the players got at Wembley and afterwards, the crowds of jubilant fans celebrating round the team bus. This is (almost the end of) a new season with a clean slate. The only ethical obligation I have to the players is to try and be fair and not be offensive or vulgar in any criticism.

As regards Cameron in particular, he held out for a good League 2 contract and got one, so should now be judged as a League 2 defender, something which is not going great for him (to use something of a euphemism).

Bizarrely, I don't even think we disagree about the last bit.

[ThePieWhoCameIn]

So, can we criticise players on this forum or not? Asking for a friend.

[upthemaggies]

So, can we criticise players on this forum or not? Asking for a friend.

Yes, but you're less likely to get flamed if you take steps to qualify it as a personal opinion. That should be taken as read regardless, but for whatever reason many people still can't seem to distinguish the written word on an online forum from that of legacy media text with an expectation for objective impartial facts.
Personally, I usually find the over emotional knee-jerk reactions far more entertaining than considered opinion, that's proper terrace talk, but apparently we're all supposed to type as if we're writing a letter to The Football Post.

[Old_pie]

Yes, but you're less likely to get flamed if you take steps to qualify it as a personal opinion. That should be taken as read regardless, but for whatever reason many people still can't seem to distinguish the written word on an online forum from that of legacy media text with an expectation for objective impartial facts.
Personally, I usually find the over emotional knee-jerk reactions far more entertaining than considered opinion, that's proper terrace talk, but apparently we're all supposed to type as if we're writing a letter to The Football Post.

Thank you Swale for that clarification ;D

Or was that an AI generated response? :D

[MarcusCole]

The mob mentality on this subject kicked in some time ago here and then a player become fair game for relentless negative posts. It's cowardly, running with the pack of course.

Sometimes different people will come to the same conclusion based on the evidence provided to them, it doesn't mean they are running with the pack it is just they have come to the same conclusion.


As I've said he's a player with real, tangible achievements at Notts. One of the only players to lift any kind of silverware for us at Wembley in the last 100 years. His achievements don't mean anything? Are we such a 'what have you done for me lately?' fanbase now that actual achievements aren't worth anything? What's the point of trying in the first place then?

Football is a results game, it completely is What have you done for me lately.How many extra points do we get this season for getting over 100 last season. How many extra goals do we get if we win the previous game 5-0. its is all about the on the day. Everything he did last season is irrelevant to this one because it gives us nothing.

His and Baldwin's attitude this season it totally unacceptable, they have made mistakes and have not learnt from them. That is completely unforgivable to many of us. How many times do we have to watch them make catastrophic errors only to behave as if it wasn't their fault. i fully expect next year both of them and a few other will be back in the national league.

Neither of them are young players, they should be in the prime of their careers. Well if this is their prime it is no where near good enough for league two.

[BanjoPie]

Sometimes different people will come to the same conclusion based on the evidence provided to them, it doesn't mean they are running with the pack it is just they have come to the same conclusion.



Football is a results game, it completely is What have you done for me lately.How many extra points do we get this season for getting over 100 last season. How many extra goals do we get if we win the previous game 5-0. its is all about the on the day. Everything he did last season is irrelevant to this one because it gives us nothing.

His and Baldwin's attitude this season it totally unacceptable, they have made mistakes and have not learnt from them. That is completely unforgivable to many of us. How many times do we have to watch them make catastrophic errors only to behave as if it wasn't their fault. i fully expect next year both of them and a few other will be back in the national league.

Neither of them are young players, they should be in the prime of their careers. Well if this is their prime it is no where near good enough for league two.

Your comments leave me speechless !!! - so child-like, do you throw your dummy out of the pram every time things don't go as you would like them to?

[the_anticlough]

Well it seems very much like you are now implying I'm a coward for criticising Cameron, because other people criticise him too. I think maybe you are overthinking this whole business of minority / majority opinions.

I personally think the most important thing by far when discussing a player / manager, or whoever, is an accurate assessment of his performances. It doesn't matter if 1% or 100% of other posters agree.

I do try to be balanced and apply the same criteria to all players equally. I am often critical of other defenders (Baldwin, usually) and honestly I wouldn't lose any sleep if any of them bar Macari or any of our goalkeepers left the club tomorrow. This is not based on following the mob or being vindictive, but the fact that we have objectively the worst defense in the league and have conceded so many goals through individual errors and laspes in concentration that I literally cannot even remember them all.

I was critical of JoB earlier in the season when he was coming on at 70 mins and making mistakes and not getting in to the game. Now he's playing better I'm complimentary about him and giving him better marks. The fact that he has a magpie tattoo and has been with us for years is lovely but doesnt really factor in to what I see on the pitch. Isn't that how it works? Am I missing something?

As far as I see it any sentimental debts were paid at the end of last season with the plaudits the players got at Wembley and afterwards, the crowds of jubilant fans celebrating round the team bus. This is (almost the end of) a new season with a clean slate. The only ethical obligation I have to the players is to try and be fair and not be offensive or vulgar in any criticism.

As regards Cameron in particular, he held out for a good League 2 contract and got one, so should now be judged as a League 2 defender, something which is not going great for him (to use something of a euphemism).

Bizarrely, I don't even think we disagree about the last bit.

As much as I'd like to, there's not a lot to take issue with there. The bone I'm picking on this isn't particularly with you (although that's the way it's turned out), but I'd say that your suggestion that his real level is National League North and South is way, way off.

What I will stand by though is that it became too fashionable to slate this particular player. You could say the waters broke on that and it turned into a deluge of copy-cat criticism, which IMO the overall level of performance didn't merit, nor has it been applied equally or proportionally to the rest of the team. And that's without getting into those achievements for the club. Scapegoating is absolutely the word I use to describe it. And look at the unsavoury mess it's all turned into (although I never look at social media myself).

By the way, would you like to revisit the discussion we had well before Maynard.....me saying the back 3 were exposed by the formation and balance of the team, and you saying they weren't. I'd say that's 1 mark to Maynard for at least identifying the problem. Although solving it, to a certain extent (stopping counters on our backline and being outnumbered) hasn't lead to results and created other problems in turn (see Pedro''s posts on this).

[MarcusCole]

Your comments leave me speechless !!! - so child-like, do you throw your dummy out of the pram every time things don't go as you would like them to?

Nothing childlike about it. Too many people on this board hate the idea that others disagree with them, you seem to be one of them. It is also one of the aspects of being an adult that you learn from you mistakes, take ownership of them and then develop as a person. Too many players we have won't do that because they are incapable, if they were capable they would have done it.

As for throwing the dummy out of the pram, you seem to be doing that. Are you capable of refuting my points or do you think the insults help prove your point?

[crazyfists]

Yes, but you're less likely to get flamed if you take steps to qualify it as a personal opinion. That should be taken as read regardless, but for whatever reason many people still can't seem to distinguish the written word on an online forum from that of legacy media text with an expectation for objective impartial facts.
Personally, I usually find the over emotional knee-jerk reactions far more entertaining than considered opinion, that's proper terrace talk, but apparently we're all supposed to type as if we're writing a letter to The Football Post.

Ha ha I like. I agree, I try to put in my opinion if it's a comment that might not be in line with others, therefore qualifying it as the my own lunatic ramblings. In regards to Cameron, yes he might have turned into abit of a scapegoat but I also think most posters just put what they've seen and this season he's been very soft alot of times. The whole defence barring a couple of players have made mistakes leading directly to goals on more than one occasion, maybe even double figures which of course is going to lead to them getting pelters. Really though you've got to say the overall blame for this lies with the club, the only defender they've brought in permanently is Macari who is a good solid prospect. To have not brought in another couple of experienced, proven defenders is basic negligence.

[crazyfists]

Your comments leave me speechless !!! - so child-like, do you throw your dummy out of the pram every time things don't go as you would like them to?

You throw the dummy out of your pram the most out of any poster. Above you're left speechless and on the Cameron thread you say some of the posters are tw@ts. I can't see anywhere on Marcus Coles post he "threw his dummy out" it reads a measured, calm response. Unlike yours.

[BanjoPie]

Nothing childlike about it. Too many people on this board hate the idea that others disagree with them, you seem to be one of them. It is also one of the aspects of being an adult that you learn from you mistakes, take ownership of them and then develop as a person. Too many players we have won't do that because they are incapable, if they were capable they would have done it.

As for throwing the dummy out of the pram, you seem to be doing that. Are you capable of refuting my points or do you think the insults help prove your point?

In this post you are being very rational but to use the phrase “ what have you done for me lately” is a phrase I would normally associate with a selfish ‘me me me’ type of person. Perhaps you are not that type of person, I certainly hope so and that it was said out of sheer frustration with the current situation. Perhaps you may wish to clarify.

[upthemaggies]

In this post you are being very rational but to use the phrase “ what have you done for me lately” is a phrase I would normally associate with a selfish ‘me me me’ type of person. Perhaps you are not that type of person, I certainly hope so and that it was said out of sheer frustration with the current situation. Perhaps you may wish to clarify.

It wasn't his phrase, he used bold to highlight the phrases he was responding to.

[BanjoPie]

It wasn't his phrase, he used bold to highlight the phrases he was responding to.

In response to Aunty Clough he said “football is a results game, it completely is “what have you done for me lately” indicating he agreed with the phrase. Anyway, who invited you to the party!

[upthemaggies]

In response to Aunty Clough he said “football is a results game, it completely is “what have you done for me lately” indicating he agreed with the phrase. Anyway, who invited you to the party!

If you're so triggered by that phrase, for whatever bizarre reason, why are you acting out your regular foot stamping "Let me be daddy and in charge, it's my playhouse" routine on him rather than with the poster who used it in the first place?

[maddogslater]

Yes just get back to your bottle banjo

[drillerpie]

As much as I'd like to, there's not a lot to take issue with there. The bone I'm picking on this isn't particularly with you (although that's the way it's turned out), but I'd say that your suggestion that his real level is National League North and South is way, way off.

What I will stand by though is that it became too fashionable to slate this particular player. You could say the waters broke on that and it turned into a deluge of copy-cat criticism, which IMO the overall level of performance didn't merit, nor has it been applied equally or proportionally to the rest of the team. And that's without getting into those achievements for the club. Scapegoating is absolutely the word I use to describe it. And look at the unsavoury mess it's all turned into (although I never look at social media myself).

By the way, would you like to revisit the discussion we had well before Maynard.....me saying the back 3 were exposed by the formation and balance of the team, and you saying they weren't. I'd say that's 1 mark to Maynard for at least identifying the problem. Although solving it, to a certain extent (stopping counters on our backline and being outnumbered) hasn't lead to results and created other problems in turn (see Pedro''s posts on this).

Ok so I'm glad we have found some common ground.

About Cameron's level I said I can't see him staying at League 2 level and that he could struggle in a normal team at NL level. By that I meant that he can do well in a good team at NL level because the focus would be more on his ability on the ball, with teams not able to carry too much of an attacking threat against him.

If he played for let's say a mid table NL team and had to defend a lot against burly quick attackers, I think he would struggle there as well. Basically, more than attributing a level to Cameron I was saying that I just don't think he is a natural defender - to me he doesn't seem to like defending and doesn't seem to have the natural instincts. Baldwin for example also makes a lot of mistakes but seems to relish getting into battles with defenders at least.

Re: goals conceded being due to our attacking style, yes we did disagree because I said that some of them were down to the style but a lot of them were down to our defenders.

You are going to absolutely hate this, but I would say
Maynard coming in has proved my point more than yours. We are still conceding 2 a game even though we are much less kamikaze now. Our wing backs have been told to stop more crosses coming in rather than just jockeying and they generally do that.

We are protecting the defenders more but the goals keep going in. Not all the errors have been from Cameron, not all of them from defenders/keepers (Crowley's leg dangle and Robertson's yellow card bonanza are mistakes that have changed the course of games not committed by defenders.)

Having said that, just in the SM era we have had Cameron deciding to eschew the new style of blocking crosses with hands behind back and opt to track the flight of the ball with his left hand, making sure to be half a step inside the penalty area for maximum stupidity. That cost us 2 points.

Then his cameo on Saturday

[drillerpie]

Sorry I fat fingered the send button and can't amend.

To continue the post:

Cameron's cameo on Saturday where his defending for the goal prompted the normally ultra diplomatic Stall to exclaim "Kyle Cameron, what are you doing?" or words to that effect. We can't say that cost us points exactly but it sucked the enthusiasm out of the stadium and turned the atmosphere. He had a couple of other dodgy moments too.

We have also had set pieces against where all the opposition's main aerial threat had to do was trundle round to the back post and head in unmarked.

Not forgetting Slocombe's pirouette or Rawlo coming on to sure up the defence against a physical striker and heading straight into his own net either.

Our back line (including keepers) is just really bad. We have tried to protect them more, but they will find a way to let goals in whatever we do.

That's why we have people who really don't want to criticise the team if they can avoid it, like Stallard and like the new manager, saying the defenders aren't good enough. Whatever people may think of Maynard's ability as a manager, I think he's absolutely right to say we aren't equipped to defend. We need new players in most defensive positions.

[i961pie]

Sorry I fat fingered the send button and can't amend.

To continue the post:

Cameron's cameo on Saturday where his defending for the goal prompted the normally ultra diplomatic Stall to exclaim "Kyle Cameron, what are you doing?" or words to that effect. We can't say that cost us points exactly but it sucked the enthusiasm out of the stadium and turned the atmosphere. He had a couple of other dodgy moments too.

We have also had set pieces against where all the opposition's main aerial threat had to do was trundle round to the back post and head in unmarked.

Not forgetting Slocombe's pirouette or Rawlo coming on to sure up the defence against a physical striker and heading straight into his own net either.

Our back line (including keepers) is just really bad. We have tried to protect them more, but they will find a way to let goals in whatever we do.

That's why we have people who really don't want to criticise the team if they can avoid it, like Stallard and like the new manager, saying the defenders aren't good enough. Whatever people may think of Maynard's ability as a manager, I think he's absolutely right to say we aren't equipped to defend. We need new players in most defensive positions.

I think the vast majority of Notts supporters agree with your last paragraph.

[maddogslater]

Of course, all pretty obvious to most.
Still thinking Maynard tactics team selection lack of motivation skills he's out his depth.
As I posted in another thread a Luke or jimbo team would have thrashed garbage like Salford

[OldBanksy]

This game on ifollow in UK?

[OldBanksy]

Today's game I mean

[LincsPie]

Today's game I mean
According to Notts website it is, it's not a Saturday match so can be streamed iirc as per the regs. I would imagine Mondays will be available too.

[the_anticlough]

Football is a results game, it completely is What have you done for me lately.How many extra points do we get this season for getting over 100 last season. How many extra goals do we get if we win the previous game 5-0. its is all about the on the day. Everything he did last season is irrelevant to this one because it gives us nothing.

His and Baldwin's attitude this season it totally unacceptable, they have made mistakes and have not learnt from them. That is completely unforgivable to many of us.

Been busy, but I thought Banjo's was an appropriate response to this to be honest.

I do think that What have you done for me lately attitudes have factored into the subject under discussion here. What is it - a mere 10 months ago that Cameron was lifting the promotion trophy at Wembley? And we all basked in the great thing achieved - EFL status regained - by 'undeniable heroes' (who remembers that video?) It was, and still is, a big deal, to me at least.

It was interesting to see Mace's podcast this week - the great initiative to involve our former players. That's exactly the right approach, in the same spirit as the 'Brindley, Needham...' thread here. We may live in a consumerist, disposal world now, but football is at its best when it's about community, and creating a family. One day, when most are old and grey, we'll be inviting the class of 2023 back to take their plaudits. But would they want to come if they've been bullied and boo-ed out of the club by an alliance of angry old curmudgeons and spoilt tiktokers? I don't think I would. The unsavoury online ruckus since last Saturday should tell us that it's already gone too far.

We live in a disposable, consumerist world of instant gratification - fast food now! the next tiktok, swipe to the next video. Bad game or run of games? 'Unforgiveable'!! Ged rid, next, next, swipe, swipe. KC is a hero in May, but already a half-eaten KFC to bin by the following March. Not good at all!

It seems like I'm old-fashioned in wanting to follow the fortunes of my football club in this way - by respecting the players and managers who have actually achieved something for us. And that doesn't mean they can't be criticised when it's due. It just seems a lot more sane to me to remember what they've achieved and that they're trying to take that difficult next step up to a higher level.

[tommopie8]

Been busy, but I thought Banjo's was an appropriate response to this to be honest.

I do think that What have you done for me lately attitudes have factored into the subject under discussion here. What is it - a mere 10 months ago that Cameron was lifting the promotion trophy at Wembley? And we all basked in the great thing achieved - EFL status regained - by 'undeniable heroes' (who remembers that video?) It was, and still is, a big deal, to me at least.

It was interesting to see Mace's podcast this week - the great initiative to involve our former players. That's exactly the right approach, in the same spirit as the 'Brindley, Needham...' thread here. We may live in a consumerist, disposal world now, but football is at its best when it's about community, and creating a family. One day, when most are old and grey, we'll be inviting the class of 2023 back to take their plaudits. But would they want to come if they've been bullied and boo-ed out of the club by an alliance of angry old curmudgeons and spoilt tiktokers? I don't think I would. The unsavoury online ruckus since last Saturday should tell us that it's already gone too far.

We live in a disposable, consumerist world of instant gratification - fast food now! the next tiktok, swipe to the next video. Bad game or run of games? 'Unforgiveable'!! Ged rid, next, next, swipe, swipe. KC is a hero in May, but already a half-eaten KFC to bin by the following March. Not good at all!

It seems like I'm old-fashioned in wanting to follow the fortunes of my football club in this way - by respecting the players and managers who have actually achieved something for us. And that doesn't mean they can't be criticised when it's due. It just seems a lot more sane to me to remember what they've achieved and that they're trying to take that difficult next step up to a higher level.

It's a fair point, but loyalty is a two way street and Ruben showed that when the grass is greener no matter how good the relationship with the fans - it's all secondary.

I think Cameron is a more than capable squad player. I don't want him as our captain next season, he's an emotional and sensitive man who needs to focus on his performances - let someone else better acclimated to lead have the responsibility.

I think whatever we're looking for this summer we need to get 2 experienced leaders in.

[the_anticlough]

Re: goals conceded being due to our attacking style, yes we did disagree because I said that some of them were down to the style but a lot of them were down to our defenders.

You are going to absolutely hate this, but I would say
Maynard coming in has proved my point more than yours. We are still conceding 2 a game even though we are much less kamikaze now. Our wing backs have been told to stop more crosses coming in rather than just jockeying and they generally do that.

The disagreement then was simply me saying the defence was being exposed by our style of play and formation and you saying they weren't. The posts will be easy enough to find. I was describing teams breaking on and outnumbering us and you said it wasn't the case. It was happening multiple times every game under LW, a nice, and classic, example is at 0:43 below (a similar goal was Dobra's in the final).

It was an obvious observation and it was the first thing Maynard spoke about and tried to eliminate soon after he arrived.

Other points I'd make about this...
- the best fix would be personnel upgrades. That didn't happen and still hasn't happened. We were crying out for a RCB then. Goalkeeper too.
- failing that, you have Maynard's tweaks, which did work in reducing these situations and goals conceded from them. But at the cost of blunting our attacking play and still leaving the various other ways we contrive to conceed.
- If going defensive is off the table, the only other option might be just to embrace the 'we'll score more than you' philosophy
- exposing the defenders this way made good players look average, average L2 players poor, and poor L2 players look really bad. And we had those. For players used to more of a balance between defence and attack, they will be aware that their reputations will be taking a knock
- LW should've acknowledged this, to his credit Maynard did so, pretty soon after arriving (don't worry 'Team Out', I'm still very much with you :) )

All of that is a different debate to the qualities of certain defenders. Of course their individual errors and weaknesses were/are a big part of the problem too. But back then you tried to argue that our backline wasn't being exposed. In a genuine 3-2-4-1, if you can't dominate the ball, pin the opposition back, it will come back to bite you big time. And, sadly, that's exactly what happened to us.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc7q91RWze0

[drillerpie]

The disagreement then was simply me saying the defence was being exposed by our style of play and formation and you saying they weren't. The posts will be easy enough to find. I was describing teams breaking on and outnumbering us and you said it wasn't the case. It was happening multiple times every game under LW, a nice, and classic, example is at 0:43 below (a similar goal was Dobra's in the final).

It was an obvious observation and it was the first thing Maynard spoke about and tried to eliminate soon after he arrived.

Other points I'd make about this...
- the best fix would be personnel upgrades. That didn't happen and still hasn't happened. We were crying out for a RCB then. Goalkeeper too.
- failing that, you have Maynard's tweaks, which did work in reducing these situations and goals conceded from them. But at the cost of blunting our attacking play and still leaving the various other ways we contrive to conceed.
- If going defensive is off the table, the only other option might be just to embrace the 'we'll score more than you' philosophy
- exposing the defenders this way made good players look average, average L2 players poor, and poor L2 players look really bad. And we had those. For players used to more of a balance between defence and attack, they will be aware that their reputations will be taking a knock
- LW should've acknowledged this, to his credit Maynard did so, pretty soon after arriving (don't worry 'Team Out', I'm still very much with you :) )

All of that is a different debate to the qualities of certain defenders. Of course their individual errors and weaknesses were/are a big part of the problem too. But back then you tried to argue that our backline wasn't being exposed. In a genuine 3-2-4-1, if you can't dominate the ball, pin the opposition back, it will come back to bite you big time. And, sadly, that's exactly what happened to us.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc7q91RWze0

Morning AC, if I remember correctly it was a while ago now (maybe Sep/Oct?) and I was saying that some of the goals were down to how we played but a lot were mistakes.

Another thing I remember us disagreeing about was you saying the back 3 made mistakes because the three of them had to defend the whole width of the pitch, and I said that happened rarely as there was usually a wing back or a Crowley/Bostock/Palmer scrambling to get back with them.

That's how I remember it but feel free to pull up the threads.

[the_anticlough]

Morning AC, if I remember correctly it was a while ago now (maybe Sep/Oct?) and I was saying that some of the goals were down to how we played but a lot were mistakes.

Another thing I remember us disagreeing about was you saying the back 3 made mistakes because the three of them had to defend the whole width of the pitch, and I said that happened rarely as there was usually a wing back or a Crowley/Bostock/Palmer scrambling to get back with them.

That's how I remember it but feel free to pull up the threads.

I think you pass the memory test :)

Scrambling was a best-case scenario at times. Stone/Slocs, Rawlo/Brinds, AB and KC being protected by a line of Azza, Bozzy, MP and JJ, in a higher league, was always going to be fraught. And predicated on us being able to boss games.
Anyway, NCM going to be fun and interesting over the next few months. So many different opinions about he direction we should go in.