Rebuilding Notts County's Defence

[BCnotts18]

https://x.com/OffTheLineBlog/status/1775117212677800328?s=20

Decent article about who we need to sign, keep and release regarding our defence. Although the thought of having Aiden Stone potentially starting next season is terrifying.

Harrison Male seems a decent shout to me, especially if Dorking get relegated, although not exactly experienced at league two level.

[SmiffyPie]

I did read it through but I lost real interest when he says keep KC as a left back (OK, he states in a back 4, but still). On the bench maybe.

[Notts78]

https://x.com/OffTheLineBlog/status/1775117212677800328?s=20

Decent article about who we need to sign, keep and release regarding our defence. Although the thought of having Aiden Stone potentially starting next season is terrifying.

Harrison Male seems a decent shout to me, especially if Dorking get relegated, although not exactly experienced at league two level.

Why are we looking to replace NL level defenders with, well, NL defenders? Harrison Male is in a side that has conceded over 70 goals, so why on Earth would we think he’s an improvement?
I’d rather we got players released from L1/L2 and if fortunate enough one from the Championship.

[durhampie]

https://x.com/OffTheLineBlog/status/1775117212677800328?s=20

Decent article about who we need to sign, keep and release regarding our defence. Although the thought of having Aiden Stone potentially starting next season is terrifying.

Harrison Male seems a decent shout to me, especially if Dorking get relegated, although not exactly experienced at league two level.

We dont need anymore none league defenders... We have seen what they can do..

[MarcusCole]

Gave up when he said to keep Baldwin, that guy has not situational awareness and so gifts goals to the opposition.

[WarsopPie]

Gave up when i saw he said keep Chicksen tbh.

[legs77]

Who out of defenders are out of contract ?

Baldwin ?
Chicksen ?

[TSANHO]

Who out of defenders are out of contract ?

Baldwin ?
Chicksen ?

Chicksen and probably Macari are the only ones I’d keep of our defence given a choice. Baldwin is far too error prone, and Cameron try as he might just isn’t a Lg2 CB. Decent backups for the bench maybe but certainly not first 11 standard. The rest aren’t even up for debate really….but don’t they all have longer contracts?

That was the worst bit of the summer recruitment, handing contracts out to players out of loyalty who just weren’t good enough to step up. That could restrict any rebuild this summer unless we can shift some out somehow.

[hissingdwarf]

This coming summer transfer window will be the most important one in years imo. If we don’t sort out the deep routed issues in the squad now and release the players who are dead wood or not good enough…we’re going to be facing another season of struggles. Regardless of manager.

We need L2 and above signings who have height, speed, strength and experience. That costs. If the Bros don’t deliver there then the good will they’ve had will disappear imo.
The shenanigans with SM being appointed and amazingly, still in charge, has riled up the ‘old Notts way’ of toxic until it isn’t.

If we start next season with Cameron and Baldwin for example as 2 of a back 3…we’re doomed I tell you, doomed.

[Could'vebeenacontender]

This coming summer transfer window will be the most important one in years imo. If we don’t sort out the deep routed issues in the squad now and release the players who are dead wood or not good enough…we’re going to be facing another season of struggles. Regardless of manager.

We need L2 and above signings who have height, speed, strength and experience. That costs. If the Bros don’t deliver there then the good will they’ve had will disappear imo.
The shenanigans with SM being appointed and amazingly, still in charge, has riled up the ‘old Notts way’ of toxic until it isn’t.

If we start next season with Cameron and Baldwin for example as 2 of a back 3…we’re doomed I tell you, doomed.
We need to start by bringing in a tough, experienced centre half who will lead on the pitch and then build the defence around him
Someone like Flint at Mansfield or Mcfadzean who joined Coventry when they were in L1 or L2 and helped them up through the leagues

[Old_pie]

That was the worst bit of the summer recruitment, handing contracts out to players out of loyalty who just weren’t good enough to step up. That could restrict any rebuild this summer unless we can shift some out somehow.

It indeed was not good but waiting to see if we were EFL or NL would not have been helpful either.

[Wollat11]

It indeed was not good but waiting to see if we were EFL or NL would not have been helpful either.
Surely by the summer window we were EFL. So no excuses. It will be difficult to unload deadwood and, budget allowing, may have accept to pay a number of non-combatants, or, if the budget does not stretch to that, still have them in the playing squad. Not ideal, but a legacy from MW. We need a lot more physicality, tenacity and athleticism at the back, that's been glaringly obvious all season but was obvious last season also against the stronger more physical teams, particularly Wrexham.

[legs77]

Surely by the summer window we were EFL. So no excuses. It will be difficult to unload deadwood and, budget allowing, may have accept to pay a number of non-combatants, or, if the budget does not stretch to that, still have them in the playing squad. Not ideal, but a legacy from MW. We need a lot more physicality, tenacity and athleticism at the back, that's been glaringly obvious all season but was obvious last season also against the stronger more physical teams, particularly Wrexham.

Yes but what Old Pie is saying we werent certain of that until end of May so other clubs ie Walsall/Crawley as examples would have known they are L2.

LW said all of this about type of player we need and quite rightly said EVERYONE wants players with those skillsets its not as easy as people think.

Next season we should be in a better place as we now know we are L2 ourselves.

[Could'vebeenacontender]

Just checked Kyle McFadzean has a deal until the end of the season at Blackburn
He's 36 now so a short term one year offer might suit both parties
Probably still lives locally after being released by Coventry in December
A powerful leader who could offer stability and teach the younger defenders what's needed in the EFL

[nw6pie]

Just checked Kyle McFadzean has a deal until the end of the season at Blackburn
He's 36 now so a short term one year offer might suit both parties
Probably still lives locally after being released by Coventry in December
A powerful leader who could offer stability and teach the younger defenders what's needed in the EFL

I think this season has shown us the danger of having too many thirty-somethings in the squad. We need players who can play 46 games, not ones who can’t play Sat-Tue-Sat. I’m hoping we’re not signing anyone over the age of 30 this summer.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

It indeed was not good but waiting to see if we were EFL or NL would not have been helpful either.

This is a good point and the fact we didn’t know which league we would be in until 13th May meant we were on the back foot compared to other league two teams. Or at least we needed to have a plan A and plan B in terms of signings depending on which league we were in.

This season we know we will be playing in league two five weeks in advance of what we knew last year. So this should provide the club with more time to produce their recruitment plans and decide how the squad is to be moulded for next season.

[Glad2BeAPie]

I think this season has shown us the danger of having too many thirty-somethings in the squad. We need players who can play 46 games, not ones who can’t play Sat-Tue-Sat. I’m hoping we’re not signing anyone over the age of 30 this summer.
^^^^This^^^^

[Piessince67]

We have 7 out of contract players.Baldwin,Bostock,Rowling ,Brindley ,O Brien,Bajrami and Scott.

[Piessince67]

Not a lot of room to manoeuvre there,but loan possibilities with a larger budget based on this seasons revenues .I would be happy with a loan goalkeeper and two dominant defenders.However if we let Bostock and O Brien go ,we are very light in midfield .This summer is not going to be easy ,2025 will be much easier.

[Piessince67]

If i was in charge of recruitment i would be telling the owners we need to sell an asset ,to give us the resources we need.

[legs77]

If i was in charge of recruitment i would be telling the owners we need to sell an asset ,to give us the resources we need.

I think that is very likely to happen.

I’d be amazed if Langstaff and Jones are still here next season.

[midshipman]

[QUOTE=Piessince67;40481535]If i was in charge of recruitment i would be telling the owners we need to sell an asset ,to give us the resources we need.[/QUOTE Which asset do we sell?

[Piessince67]

Depends on what offers we receive.We all know that we have to build a defence as the poster said.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

We have 7 out of contract players.Baldwin,Bostock,Rowling ,Brindley ,O Brien,Bajrami and Scott.

keep Scott , Bin the rest !

[OP67]

I think that is very likely to happen.

I’d be amazed if Langstaff and Jones are still here next season.

There's not a chance that either will be with us next season, far too good for L2.


keep Scott , Bin the rest !

Agreed

[Lullapie]

We need to start by bringing in a tough, experienced centre half who will lead on the pitch and then build the defence around him
Someone like Flint at Mansfield or Mcfadzean who joined Coventry when they were in L1 or L2 and helped them up through the leagues

The problem is that the system that has been adopted at Notts, doesn't allow for defenders who's sole attribute is tough tackling. Even our goalkeepers have to be footballers.

If you bring in someone like Flint (and god knows where you'd find someone like him available), he would fail in our current system.

It's not about winning the ball currently, it's about holding onto it.

[Lullapie]

We have 7 out of contract players.Baldwin,Bostock,Rowling ,Brindley ,O Brien,Bajrami and Scott.

There's lots of 'Bs' in there.

I reckon that that is every Notts County player with a B in their name :P.

[Canuckpie]

In my opinion both Langstaff and Jones will be county players next season, my rationale both are under contract their not good enough for the step up to the Championship and only a couple of league 1 teams would be able to meet there valuations.
On the out of contract player's retain Scott maybe JOB the rest can leave. Defenders under contract but deemed not good enough should become squad members , new arrivals needed are goalkeeper, two seasoned EFL Defenders and a holding midfielder who can do the dirty side as needed.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

The problem is that the system that has been adopted at Notts, doesn't allow for defenders who's sole attribute is tough tackling. Even our goalkeepers have to be footballers.

If you bring in someone like Flint (and god knows where you'd find someone like him available), he would fail in our current system.

It's not about winning the ball currently, it's about holding onto it.

You have hit the nail on the head LullaPie and the solution to the problem is to go out there and get better that fits the style we are looking to play. One / Two Who defends better and distributes the ball better. I'm sure they are out there its just a case of finding them and coaching them. It's a shame that Baldwin could not learn to leave the brain farts out of his game. There still time for Cameron though as he has time on his contract to improve his frailties. I like Cameron and hope he rises to the challenge ahead !

[OchPie]

The problem is that the system that has been adopted at Notts, doesn't allow for defenders who's sole attribute is tough tackling. Even our goalkeepers have to be footballers.

If you bring in someone like Flint (and god knows where you'd find someone like him available), he would fail in our current system.

It's not about winning the ball currently, it's about holding onto it.

I really hope, and I don't think, that last sentence is right.

Our system is about controlling possession. We're at our best when we take risks in attack and, if we lose the ball, move heaven and earth to get it back again. The alternative is the "play the ball around the back 40 times" approach which is what the players sometimes default to but which is, I believe, absolutely not the system we're supposed to be playing.

Some of our system is about harrying the ball carriers up the field (and inevitably leaving space), but some of it is about winning the ball back in defence too. And frankly we're a lot better at the first than the second, especially when a team comes at us - overwhelmingly we block and we try to pinch, but we don't really tackle. Most of our defenders stand off until a shot goes off, the ball is intercepted, or a goal is so likely they give away a penalty trying to stop it.

I haven't watched enough of Flint to know specifically but I have definitely seen defenders who can do the above better than ours, playing for L2 teams. They may not be as good at ball distribution, but we can still have players in our back line who are good at that too. The good hard tacklers know how to thread a simple pass to someone else.

[slack_pie]

In my opinion both Langstaff and Jones will be county players next season, my rationale both are under contract their not good enough for the step up to the Championship and only a couple of league 1 teams would be able to meet there valuations.
On the out of contract player's retain Scott maybe JOB the rest can leave. Defenders under contract but deemed not good enough should become squad members , new arrivals needed are goalkeeper, two seasoned EFL Defenders and a holding midfielder who can do the dirty side as needed.

Wouldn't be surprised if Wrexham come sniffing around Jones and/or Langstaff if they promoted.

[BJPIE]

Given crowds have been much bigger than expected and the playing budget was based on 23/24 revenue, there should be significant sums available to have at least a top 6 budget and the majority of this must be spent on a real goalkeeper and two centre half's. It wouldny worry me if we didnt spend a penny elsewhere.
If we can rid ourselves sadly of Rawlo and TAR, gladly of Brindley, Randall,Morias, Slocombe, along with Brooks and Mukundafa who arent breaking through then we would look OK.
Chicks Cameron and Baldwin do have something to offer but not without better players around them. Macari the only definite starter for me of the current defenders.

[1955pie]

Given crowds have been much bigger than expected and the playing budget was based on 23/24 revenue, there should be significant sums available to have at least a top 6 budget and the majority of this must be spent on a real goalkeeper and two centre half's. It wouldny worry me if we didnt spend a penny elsewhere.
If we can rid ourselves sadly of Rawlo and TAR, gladly of Brindley, Randall,Morias, Slocombe, along with Brooks and Mukundafa who arent breaking through then we would look OK.
Chicks Cameron and Baldwin do have something to offer but not without better players around them. Macari the only definite starter for me of the current defenders.

Don't forget that they will be spending money on a new pitch and they hope on this new fan zone. If I remember correctly in the documents to the council it said something along the lines of "The asking price had been reduced from £950k to £720k"
So it looks like they might be buying it.
So the playing budget may well be less than some people expect / hope for.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Given crowds have been much bigger than expected and the playing budget was based on 23/24 revenue, there should be significant sums available to have at least a top 6 budget and the majority of this must be spent on a real goalkeeper and two centre half's. It wouldny worry me if we didnt spend a penny elsewhere.
If we can rid ourselves sadly of Rawlo and TAR, gladly of Brindley, Randall,Morias, Slocombe, along with Brooks and Mukundafa who arent breaking through then we would look OK.
Chicks Cameron and Baldwin do have something to offer but not without better players around them. Macari the only definite starter for me of the current defenders.

There is no profit though.The club runs at a loss, the significance of the bigger crowds means the brothers have to pay less out of their own pockets.
Its lovely setting out budgets by pulling figures out of thin air but can we acknowledge the reality that as a club we run at a loss.if it wasn't for the brothers we would be bankrupt.I'm amazed and thankful that they still go out and pay transfer fees for players but demanding top 6 budgets is unrealistic in my eyes.

[Old_pie]

There is no profit though.The club runs at a loss, the significance of the bigger crowds means the brothers have to pay less out of their own pockets.
Its lovely setting out budgets by pulling figures out of thin air but can we acknowledge the reality that as a club we run at a loss.if it wasn't for the brothers we would be bankrupt.I'm amazed and thankful that they still go out and pay transfer fees for players but demanding top 6 budgets is unrealistic in my eyes.

The Bros just pay a bit :D more for their season ticket than the rest of us (ok, a LOT more) but then they have the hope that at some time down the line they might just get reimbursed, at least in part.

I've not seen substantial evidence to suggest they are running close to their budget limit (do we know what this is even) and so have no idea what is unrealistic. Maybe they believed that a top ten budget with LW might have been enough to do better, maybe they'll be spurred into a top 3 budget to counteract for this years disappointment. Who knows?

[slack_pie]

There is no profit though.The club runs at a loss, the significance of the bigger crowds means the brothers have to pay less out of their own pockets.
Its lovely setting out budgets by pulling figures out of thin air but can we acknowledge the reality that as a club we run at a loss.if it wasn't for the brothers we would be bankrupt.I'm amazed and thankful that they still go out and pay transfer fees for players but demanding top 6 budgets is unrealistic in my eyes.

Why is a top six budget unrealistic? Mansfield have a far bigger budget than us on much lower gates. So do a bunch of other clubs. Hardly any clubs break even at this level, or at any level for that matter. It all comes down to how deep the owners' pockets are.

If our owners aren't wealthy enough for us to have a top-six budget in L2, we'll be stuck at this level for quite a while, even if they are smart with the funds they have.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

Why is a top six budget unrealistic? Mansfield have a far bigger budget than us on much lower gates. So do a bunch of other clubs. Hardly any clubs break even at this level, or at any level for that matter. It all comes down to how deep the owners' pockets are.

If our owners aren't wealthy enough for us to have a top-six budget in L2, we'll be stuck at this level for quite a while, even if they are smart with the funds they have.

Its unrealistic because we are a club that runs at a loss.Anything else around this is down to the generosity of the owners and what they are prepared to plough into the club. If they feel a top 10 budget is what they are going to fund then who is anyone to argue with that.? You might not like it but that's your prerogative. Why don't you take over the club and give us a top 6 budget.? Maybe you know some cash rich investors who would plough money into the club that would guarantee the highest budget in the division.
Like I said it's great just picking a number out of thin air and demand a top budget of any kind.Whatever other clubs choose to do has nothing to do with us.

[slack_pie]

Its unrealistic because we are a club that runs at a loss.Anything else around this is down to the generosity of the owners and what they are prepared to plough into the club. If they feel a top 10 budget is what they are going to fund then who is anyone to argue with that.? You might not like it but that's your prerogative. Why don't you take over the club and give us a top 6 budget.? Maybe you know some cash rich investors who would plough money into the club that would guarantee the highest budget in the division.
Like I said it's great just picking a number out of thin air and demand a top budget of any kind.Whatever other clubs choose to do has nothing to do with us.

That's my point - no club turns a profit at this level. It's always down to how rich and ambitious the owner is.

Do you really think the bros are less ambitious than half the owners in L2? I don't. I think they are trying to run the club in as smart a way as possible, trying to gain an edge in terms of recruitment or coaching rather than splashing the cash, and that that approach worked up until late last year.

They may realise that to progress at this level, we need a better playing squad, and that that requires a bigger budget.

[midshipman]

If we have to sell both JJ.and Macca to rebuild our defence we will have to sign players to bring the attack back up to strength. Who can we get to replace JJ who week after week provides brilliant crosses which often leads to goals. Who will provide the goals at the rate Macca has done over the last two seasons will be expensive.to sign. I hope both will stay and any money will go towards two strong and experienced C B. I also think we need two strong and experienced full backs so we can switch when necessary to a back four.

[Elite_Pie]

Why is a top six budget unrealistic?

It isn't, in fact I think we should expect it next season. We are clear third best in attendances in League 2 this season, and none of the clubs who will come down from League 1 will threaten that. I get that the owner's philosophy is to find cheap untapped talent and it's mostly worked well so far, but the recruitment this summer will be crunch time for me. If I read that we have a 10th-12th place budget again I'll be disappointed.

[PedroTheFisherman66]

It isn't, in fact I think we should expect it next season. We are clear third best in attendances in League 2 this season, and none of the clubs who will come down from League 1 will threaten that. I get that the owner's philosophy is to find cheap untapped talent and it's mostly worked well so far, but the recruitment this summer will be crunch time for me. If I read that we have a 10th-12th place budget again I'll be disappointed.

like i say Elite , we all have the right to be disappointed with any budget that is divulged if it is lower than perceived. However my point is people really shouldn't be complaining and demanding more money should be spent and start to berate the owners and their commitment to the club. I thought we had learnt lessons from the past about spending money we haven't got.

[ThaiPie]

like i say Elite , we all have the right to be disappointed with any budget that is divulged if it is lower than perceived. However my point is people really shouldn't be complaining and demanding more money should be spent and start to berate the owners and their commitment to the club. I thought we had learnt lessons from the past about spending money we haven't got.

Well said Pedro.

Anybody should read this before sniping at the owners.

https://www.nottinghampost.com/sport/football/football-news/who-christoffer-alexander-reedtz-you-3141806

I think the first match under the Brothers was Eastleigh away. A 0-1 defeat, finished with 9 men.

Compare the team that day with todays team.

1Slocombe
16Kelly-Evans Substituted for Hemmings at 60'minutes
17Bakayogo
12Oxlade-Chamberlain Substituted for Tootle at 75'minutes
19Bird Substituted for Turner at 75'minutes
4Rose
8Doyle Booked at 75mins
3McCrory Booked at 90mins
6 O'Brien
11 Boldewijn
10 Tyson

Progress or no progress?

[slack_pie]

like i say Elite , we all have the right to be disappointed with any budget that is divulged if it is lower than perceived. However my point is people really shouldn't be complaining and demanding more money should be spent and start to berate the owners and their commitment to the club. I thought we had learnt lessons from the past about spending money we haven't got.

I don't think people are getting upset and berating the owners. What we're saying is, our owners appear to be ambitious, and we all assume they have the funds to back up that ambition one way or another. At some point, if they want us to progress up the leagues, we'll have to bring in better players, and that often means spending more money. It's the same for every club at this level.

[Woodypie]

Nobody knows what budget the syndicate really has or are willing to spend. Notts aren't going to generate a profit any time soon, but if their hobby is to run a successful football club then the will need to accept a loss on clearing out our entire defence and start again. Clearing out the coaching team would be good too but I have a funny feeling that won't happen. If their aim is to do a Brentford, then they must presumably have access to resources to fund this.

[keldsyke]

like i say Elite , we all have the right to be disappointed with any budget that is divulged if it is lower than perceived. However my point is people really shouldn't be complaining and demanding more money should be spent and start to berate the owners and their commitment to the club. I thought we had learnt lessons from the past about spending money we haven't got.

I don't think anyone has criticised them on budget, but recruitment is IMO open to criticism, its been very poor this season.

[legs77]

I don't think anyone has criticised them on budget, but recruitment is IMO open to criticism, its been very poor this season.

Agreed signings havent been great we have signed 4 decent ones.

There isnt a magic formula for players though a number of factors can impact players at any club.

An example is Caicedo £100m looked great at Brighton and obviously can play goes to Chelsea and looks a £100 player !

[Ex_Southwell_Magpie]

I don't think anyone has criticised them on budget, but recruitment is IMO open to criticism, its been very poor this season.

I wouldn’t say overall recruitment has been very poor as we have signed Jones, Crowley, Jatta, Macari, Robertson and Didzy (open to debate). The lack of focus on defence was very poor, especially with us having the second worse defence in the National league (time out of possession), they didn’t deserve being retained on two year deals.

[drillerpie]

I wouldn’t say overall recruitment has been very poor as we have signed Jones, Crowley, Jatta, Macari, Robertson and Didzy (open to debate). The lack of focus on defence was very poor, especially with us having the second worse defence in the National league (time out of possession), they didn’t deserve being retained on two year deals.

That sounds like an interesting stat - is that goals conceded correlated with time the opposition had the ball (I.e., time spent actually defending?)

[Ex_Southwell_Magpie]

That sounds like an interesting stat - is that goals conceded correlated with time the opposition had the ball (I.e., time spent actually defending?)

It is that. Seeing as we were only defending for around 25% of matches, it was pretty damning.