Building a squad for the Premiership

[Stoke_Arab]

How many new players do you think we need and in what positions.?

I've got a couple of thoughts/concerns about this.
Assuming Jim Goodwin is staying....

I think most would agree that Jim did a good job in a very short time to find the right players to get us promoted. (Loan players aside) But the Premiership is a whole different ball game and I think everyone would agree we need to seriously strengthen the starting 11.
So, again, if Jim is staying, where are these players going to come from? The Championship doesn't seem a fertile hunting ground at this time for players that will improve the side for next season.

So where? Relegated Livi might have a couple, no idea, so where?
If Ross Co or St Johnstone go down maybe one or two from them.

Surely players released by the lower Prem clubs won't improve us? (Unless Jim suddenly finds some Brian Clough magic all of a sudden). Players that we're interested in will often have options at Hearts Hibs Aberdeen before choosing us.

So where? And for me this is a big problem, we don't have a scouting network where we're identifying players down south, can't match most lower English league budgets and still have to persuade an interested player to move to Dundee.

So where else? Loans? Maybe that will solve part of the problem but at the end of the day we need a core of our own players. Jim seems to be saying he's already working on this so it's going to be interesting to see who his first signing is.

Thoughts?

[LSArab]

An easy couple of possibilities :

McClelland from St J if they go down

Simon Murray from Rossco if they go down or if he fancies the move anyway as he lives in the city

[Arabs4ever]

I'd like to see a former player of ours signed again. Although he didn't make an appearance in the first team, right-back Shaun Rooney who is currently with Fleetwood would be a solid signing imo.

[Jaspar]

I'd like to see a former player of ours signed again. Although he didn't make an appearance in the first team, right-back Shaun Rooney who is currently with Fleetwood would be a solid signing imo.

Does he have enough pace? Last time in the premier league we were caught out with the lack of pace from Edwards and Mulgrew. We went to a back 3 so that Graham could be the whippet at the back.

[TerryTheTerror]

In Gallagher and Graham we have players with good experience playing at that level.

[arab1970]

Does he have enough pace? Last time in the premier league we were caught out with the lack of pace from Edwards and Mulgrew. We went to a back 3 so that Graham could be the whippet at the back.

Graham the whippet XD he's a slow as ****

[dontjump]

will only need to be for one season

[geofoxposse]

I would like to think that players give their all every game but know the truth, however it is an opportunity for everyone to bust a gut in the remaining 2 games.

[Yeats 62]

When all the loan players JUMP fae Dens, I wonder who has the hardest task? Hmmn.. There should be a rule (there probably was at one time) about just how many loanees are acceptable and fair to other clubs who abide by the rules (legal and moral) Just like the 3 foreigners ( can we still say that? ) rule.

PS: IP addresses, can be easily found and blocked if required. Then again, that VPN thingy might come in to play.... XDXD

Virtual Private Naecu*t.... :P

[shedka]

Simon Murray is a no brainer for me

Try and bring Levitt home too, injury hampered but we are the club for him, will get the best out of him, especially with a stable goalie and defence

[Arabknight]

JG said players giving 2 year deals were done so with the proviso that they were capable of playing in prem. I sure docherty was one of them. I hope I’m wrong but I think Grimshaw was another??

[footballfan123]

JG said players giving 2 year deals were done so with the proviso that they were capable of playing in prem. I sure docherty was one of them. I hope I’m wrong but I think Grimshaw was another??

Walton said on STV news he wants to stay

[Jaspar]

Graham the whippet XD he's a slow as ****

Compared to the other two….

No wonder we went down…

[JamesMcClean]

will only need to be for one season

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhzpxjuwZy0

XDXDXDXD

[Whitfieldarab]

Simon Murray is a no brainer for me

Try and bring Levitt home too, injury hampered but we are the club for him, will get the best out of him, especially with a stable goalie and defence

A no to Simon Murray for me, can take a goal when he has nothing to think about but his general play isn't good enough and he's always getting caught offside - because let's face it he's no the brightest.

Levitt I think would jump at the chance and I hope his mum and dad (who still came on our away bus a few times last season) are having a word in his ear but I fear he's on a really good wage and decent length of contract to go so that's a non starter imo.

[cybershed]

A no to Simon Murray for me, can take a goal when he has nothing to think about but his general play isn't good enough and he's always getting caught offside - because let's face it he's no the brightest.

Levitt I think would jump at the chance and I hope his mum and dad (who still came on our away bus a few times last season) are having a word in his ear but I fear he's on a really good wage and decent length of contract to go so that's a non starter imo.

It's a no to Levitt for me. Like most of last season's squad he didn't have the bottle to battle when needed.

I would offer Walton a contract though. Along with A.N.Other incoming goalkeeper and let them battle it out for the #1 jersey.

The attributes we need in the side IMO are:

- Pace
- Leadership
- Creativity
- Ambition

[weegiearab]

A new coach for the strikers...thats the first piece to the rebuild that I want. We aren't going to create as many chances in the premier...so were are gonna have to be more clinical in the final third.I also want a proper leader on the park, similiar to Webster when he was here. Width and pace is a must also!
Decent keeper. Strong spine to the team. Width & pace and a clinical striker...not too much to ask for!!!

[Stoke_Arab]

It's a no to Levitt for me. Like most of last season's squad he didn't have the bottle to battle when needed.

I would offer Walton a contract though. Along with A.N.Other incoming goalkeeper and let them battle it out for the #1 jersey.

The attributes we need in the side IMO are:

- Pace
- Leadership
- Creativity
- Ambition

Agree 100%

Levitt was a part of the Charlatan 11 bottle crashers that took us down. Watching him hide from tackles and fail to turn up was horrific and he's done exactly the same at Hibs.
People wanting him back need to give their heads a wobble.

[Stoke_Arab]

A no to Simon Murray for me, can take a goal when he has nothing to think about but his general play isn't good enough and he's always getting caught offside - because let's face it he's no the brightest.

Levitt I think would jump at the chance and I hope his mum and dad (who still came on our away bus a few times last season) are having a word in his ear but I fear he's on a really good wage and decent length of contract to go so that's a non starter imo.

Agree with your thoughts on Murray, but as mentioned above it's surely a no for Levitt. I think folk just remember when he stepped in with the occasional great goal but forget his lack of impact in most games.

[shedka]

That are just options but disagree with both and no head wobbling needed trust me

Murray is better than anything we have right now and doing it in the prem, more than good enough for us next season, and had we got him in Jan then probably would have been over the line weeks ago, just look how him leaving Queens last season, arguably cost them the title

Levitt would be a fantastic signing, he instantly be out best player, he was injury hampered, the team were not bottlers, they were unable to play with any confidence and freedom due to the diddy in goal throwing them in throughout the season, look at St Johnstone at home just before Goodwin got the job, Levitt scored a fantastic goal to equalise, momentum all went is, Releghitti then let's may slide tackle the ball into the net, our outfield team were flawed but the goalie situation is why we ended up down

Anyways that's the last now but both would be very shrewd signings and improve us but unlikely to happen

[Stoke_Arab]

I was talking to a couple of fans of other Premiership teams last night and I asked them how many new players we need to be minimum 10th next season. My Jambo mole said 8, a Hibbee said 8, I said at least 7.
Personally I don't think we'll see that because I worry JG is going to put too much faith in the existing squad.
How many new players do you think we need?

[Stoke_Arab]

Regardless of Birighitti Levitt was a failure last season. 90% of Hibs fans would be delighted to see him away from Easter Road after his limp performances this season. Lack of desire, lack of dig, lack of impact, and Birighitti isn't playing for Hibs 😎
He wanted out the door as quick as possible when we went down, wanting him back at Tannadice is sheer romanticism.

[Arabdownsouth]

Regardless of Birighitti Levitt was a failure last season. 90% of Hibs fans would be delighted to see him away from Easter Road after his limp performances this season. Lack of desire, lack of dig, lack of impact, and Birighitti isn't playing for Hibs 😎
He wanted out the door as quick as possible when we went down, wanting him back at Tannadice is sheer romanticism.

Agreed

[CurrieArab]

I think we might sign a couple of proven premiership players but we also need to find some rough diamonds from the Championship or below. We have just finished a season in the Championship therefore the manager will know who the best player are or at least the ones that impressed him. Another like Ross Doherty, or Holt. Also, remember Kevin Nesbitt and Jon McGinn were signed from the lower division. Someone with an eye for a player should be able to pick off the cream.

For me I thought Liam McStravick at Airdrie looked good and only 19.. I think he is injured so we wont see him tonight. Also Morrison from Falkirk, he is rapid and bags a few goals.

[Jaspar]

Agreed

Seconded

[Yeats 62]

Listening to, and reading what JG has said recently. "The two year contracts were there for a reason" speaks for itself. On getting back loan players , he seemed to underplay Walton's contract still having a year to go, I think he is confident a deal can be done.
I'm gonna guess at...
Walton (if possible) - defo
McMann - probably, on this seasons form
Holt & Graham - defo
Gallacher - not heard too much, but top level experience - yes
Docherty - defo (he mentioned it)
Sibbald - of course
Kai - defo (unless a crazy offer comes in)
Spoony - defo, for experience and leadership alone
Moult - probably, he seems affy grumpy, body language not good, not sure he likes it here
Mochrie - not sure, but deserves it for that goal alone ( kiddin')

These are just the players I think he will keep on what I have heard him say, or be quoted on. As for the rest, I have no idea.

In saying that, we really need to upgrade (obvious I know) coz this team won't last upstairs.

[arab777]

Listening to, and reading what JG has said recently. "The two year contracts were there for a reason" speaks for itself. On getting back loan players , he seemed to underplay Walton's contract still having a year to go, I think he is confident a deal can be done.
I'm gonna guess at...
Walton (if possible) - defo
McMann - probably, on this seasons form
Holt & Graham - defo
Gallacher - not heard too much, but top level experience - yes
Docherty - defo (he mentioned it)
Sibbald - of course
Kai - defo (unless a crazy offer comes in)
Spoony - defo, for experience and leadership alone
Moult - probably, he seems affy grumpy, body language not good, not sure he likes it here
Mochrie - not sure, but deserves it for that goal alone ( kiddin')

These are just the players I think he will keep on what I have heard him say, or be quoted on. As for the rest, I have no idea.

In saying that, we really need to upgrade (obvious I know) coz this team won't last upstairs.


Had to read that bit twice to make sure I was reading it right. Moult has spoken often about how he has fallen in love with football again here and United are the right club for him. Just 2 weeks ago JG stated “I know Louis is really happy here, his family are settled”

[Yeats 62]

Had to read that bit twice to make sure I was reading it right. Moult has spoken often about how he has fallen in love with football again here and United are the right club for him. Just 2 weeks ago JG stated “I know Louis is really happy here, his family are settled”

You can read it as many times as you like mate. Words in the media are only media words. No one is going to say anything other than the party line when being interviewed on TV or in the papers.

My opinion is based on body language, on and off the park. And this soor pus and strutting about in a huff when things aint going well for him makes me think he is not as happy as he is told to say he is. Only an opinion I know, but I've defo saw a lot more happier looking players than LM at Tannadice.

I also remember Mo Johnstone speaking about his luv for the Celic' not too long before signing for ..... ach, yi ken the rest. XD

[Stoke_Arab]

You can read it as many times as you like mate. Words in the media are only media words. No one is going to say anything other than the party line when being interviewed on TV or in the papers.

My opinion is based on body language, on and off the park. And this soor pus and strutting about in a huff when things aint going well for him makes me think he is not as happy as he is told to say he is. Only an opinion I know, but I've defo saw a lot more happier looking players than LM at Tannadice.

I also remember Mo Johnstone speaking about his luv for the Celic' not too before signing for ..... ach, yi ken the rest. XD
He's definitely one player that shows his disappointment with negativity from the stands.

[Stoke_Arab]

Listening to, and reading what JG has said recently. "The two year contracts were there for a reason" speaks for itself. On getting back loan players , he seemed to underplay Walton's contract still having a year to go, I think he is confident a deal can be done.
I'm gonna guess at...
Walton (if possible) - defo
McMann - probably, on this seasons form
Holt & Graham - defo
Gallacher - not heard too much, but top level experience - yes
Docherty - defo (he mentioned it)
Sibbald - of course
Kai - defo (unless a crazy offer comes in)
Spoony - defo, for experience and leadership alone
Moult - probably, he seems affy grumpy, body language not good, not sure he likes it here
Mochrie - not sure, but deserves it for that goal alone ( kiddin')

These are just the players I think he will keep on what I have heard him say, or be quoted on. As for the rest, I have no idea.

In saying that, we really need to upgrade (obvious I know) coz this team won't last upstairs.

5 players there who are injury prone. Plus if we started those 10 in the Premiership I'm thinking we're in a relegation battle straight away. Just an opinion 😎

[Yeats 62]

5 players there who are injury prone. Plus if we started those 10 in the Premiership I'm thinking we're in a relegation battle straight away. Just an opinion 😎

I totally agree. Your opinion is spot on. I was just posting who I think JG will keep with things he has been documented on saying. Then again...... It's what you do, not what you say.... :)

[Stoke_Arab]

I totally agree. Your opinion is spot on. I was just posting who I think JG will keep with things he has been documented on saying. Then again...... It's what you do, not what you say.... :)
Cheers mate, said elsewhere I'm really worried that Goodwin thinks the core of this Championship side is good enough for the Prem.
If he does I think we're donald ducked before we start.

[BurghArab2023]

I reckon if we could add 4 or longshot 5 genuine quality(SPL level) players to this squad then we'd be comfortably in the mid table, possible top 6,b and I'd take that for next year.

[no1arabbelfast]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if this current squad is what we take into the Premier then numerous hammerings are certain.

Apart from the keeper, there is not one player I would be wanting to take into the Premier.

[Whitfieldarab]

I'd be bending over backwards to sign Walton on a permanent contract.Out of the defence id keep Mcmann as hes had a fantastic season, in midfield I'd keep Sibbald and Docherty and up front I'd keep Moult and added to that I'd keep the youngsters Graham, Thompson and Kai. The rest of the team I'd not be fussed about losing. We need to aim high and get in plenty of bodies as there will be loads of players moving to the city of Dundee next season so who will they chose🤔......Us or them🤔.....

[JamesMcClean]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if this current squad is what we take into the Premier then numerous hammerings are certain.

Apart from the keeper, there is not one player I would be wanting to take into the Premier.

But it won’t be the same squad. Of course there will be changes/additions coming in the summer. Having said that, it doesn’t necessarily require massive changes. One year on from barely scraping up through the play offs, in ‘97 Tommy McLean had us 3rd, qualified for Europe and also should have won the Scottish Cup. Yet that team still had the core of Perry, Malpas, Presley, Winters, McLaren, Bowman, McSwegan et al from the season before. It only needed the judicious addition of two or three (specifically the Scandinavians) to change them from play offs to Europe. The likes of Walton, Gallagher, Graham, Docherty, Moult, Watt, Sibbald, Fotheringham are absolutely more than capable of playing competitively in the Premiership. Three or four good quality additions will make a world of difference.

[Arabs4ever]

But it won’t be the same squad. Of course there will be changes/additions coming in the summer. Having said that, it doesn’t necessarily require massive changes. One year on from barely scraping up through the play offs, in ‘97 Tommy McLean had us 3rd, qualified for Europe and also should have won the Scottish Cup. Yet that team still had the core of Perry, Malpas, Presley, Winters, McLaren, Bowman, McSwegan et al from the season before. It only needed the judicious addition of two or three (specifically the Scandinavians) to change them from play offs to Europe. The likes of Walton, Gallagher, Graham, Docherty, Moult, Watt, Sibbald, Fotheringham are absolutely more than capable of playing competitively in the Premiership. Three or four good quality additions will make a world of difference.

Tommy McLean though was a good manager who in games could change tactics, our current manager I don't think has the nous to do this. With TW in play can Goodwin be trusted to spend the kitty wisely, get emptied in October say, and then the next manager work with what has been inherited?

[Arabdownsouth]

A squad without Birighitti will be a welcome boost,counting down the days till this c*nt is gone.

[tHeArAb]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if this current squad is what we take into the Premier then numerous hammerings are certain.

Apart from the keeper, there is not one player I would be wanting to take into the Premier.
Why do you get so worked up over this after every game you see? It isn't going to happen. We built a team to win the Championship. We've done that. We'll now build a team to stay in the Premiership. Take a chill pill man.

[Chick A Saw]

Struggling to reply to this thread because we need anything from 7 to 15 depending on who we keep, and arguably more!

[TerryTheTerror]

Teams that ditch their promotion winning players tend to struggle and I think it'd be a mistake to go down this route.

Obviously we need to improve the quality of the squad but pretty much the whole thing? Nah.

[arab777]

There is a definite spine going through the team there Walton, Gallagher, Docherty, Sibbald, Moult that would be unwise to disrupt. What is needed is to build quality on to that spine especially in the areas that have dogged us for some time - creativity. Hopefully the new recruitment chief and JG have been identified suitable targets. Hand it to JG he is not bad when when it comes to this.

[shedka]

For me would be keeping majority of the starting xi, putting the odd young one out on loan and bringing in 5-10 good signings to bolster and the squad

To definitely be in next seasons squad

Holt, Graham, McMann, Grimshaw, Thomson, Docherty, Sibbald, Mochrie, Kai, Middleton, Watt and Moult

Unsure on Gallagher with his performance after injury, and Wotherspoon, he has quality so maybe a one year, not sure

Try to get Walton and McClelland back to sign

Meekison and Mcleod loan out to championship

Then get your key summer signings in to strengthen the starting xi, that gives us plenty depth

[Chick A Saw]

Teams that ditch their promotion winning players tend to struggle and I think it'd be a mistake to go down this route.

Obviously we need to improve the quality of the squad but pretty much the whole thing? Nah.

Agree we should not be ditching the whole lot, but as far as i can make out, the only ones under contract for next seasons squad are Newman, Grimshaw, Gallagher, Docherty, Watt, Kai and Middleton plus a bunch of youngsters, 3 of which are not regular starters in the top flight IMHO.

Key for me is getting Walton and McClelland back and extended contracts for Sibbald, Graham, Holt, McMann, Moult, Thomson and maybe Mochrie and Wotherspoon. Still leaves 9 or 10 short for a squad to cement its place in the top flight.

[kingbottler]

There is a definite spine going through the team there Walton, Gallagher, Docherty, Sibbald, Moult that would be unwise to disrupt. What is needed is to build quality on to that spine especially in the areas that have dogged us for some time - creativity. Hopefully the new recruitment chief and JG have been identified suitable targets. Hand it to JG he is not bad when when it comes to this. Goodwin made some good player signings at Aberdeen and interestingly the spine you identify was largely signed by him. So I do have faith in his ability to make good signings

[StuartDuffArab]

I would consider having a look at The boy Frizzell at Airdrie, He's out of contract and definitely worth a punt similar tonthe mould of Wotherspoon but much younger. The boy Arron Lyall looked good on Friday and another that's out of contract albeit from Rangers.

[JUSTaway]

Ultimately it's down to budget, if money wasn't an issue then you could easily improve every player in our squad. As it is we will have to blend existing players with improved talent.

[Chick A Saw]

Ultimately it's down to budget, if money wasn't an issue then you could easily improve every player in our squad. As it is we will have to blend existing players with improved talent.

Think our budget for next season depends on who is holding the purse. On one hand and if he stays, Ogren has to look at the backing us fans have given the team this season and match that, especially when at least 4 of the home games have nudged and crossed the 10k mark. On the other hand, he sells up and the new owner is able to boost whatever budget is left behind.

[DBDU]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if this current squad is what we take into the Premier then numerous hammerings are certain.

Apart from the keeper, there is not one player I would be wanting to take into the Premier.


I agree but id say 2 , in that along with Walton , a fit and on form Moult would also cut it in the SPL IMO.

Aside from that any of the others are at best squad players and certainly not starters .

[weegiearab]

I hope we ge the ownership sorted out quickly. The potential change of owner might change the direction of the club, with them bringing in their own management team etc and subsequently may put off some players from signing. I would say that the next couple of months are going to be massive for the club. We have to be looking at stability as our main objective, with progress on the field and a definitive plan moving forward!

[CurrieArab]

I would consider having a look at The boy Frizzell at Airdrie, He's out of contract and definitely worth a punt similar tonthe mould of Wotherspoon but much younger. The boy Arron Lyall looked good on Friday and another that's out of contract albeit from Rangers.

I would agree these two would be worth a look, especially if Lyall out of contract and available. Add a bit of youth and pace to front line to assist Moult/Watt..

[JUSTaway]

If you could get rid of watt I'd move him on, on the basis of his wage, he's been ok for us in the championship, but can't justify those wages for what I think he delivers in the premiership. We urgently need pace in the final third and neither he or moult is blessed in that. not sure I'd keep both. Then again depends on quality of replacements.

[shaigra]

Make sure our players have relegation release clauses so we don't get into more debt

[JamesMcClean]

Make sure our players have relegation release clauses so we don't get into more debt

Hiya jumpy, hiya pal.;D

[jumpy2]

Hiya jumpy, hiya pal.;D

I do keep trying to stay but keep getting banned.

Maybe lay off the ban button?

[shedka]

Jumpy has never seen his team lift a major honour

[Arabdownsouth]

Jumpy has never seen his team lift a major honour

Jumpy has never seen a wage slip

[JamesMcClean]

I do keep trying to stay but keep getting banned.

Maybe lay off the ban button?

You should be laying off something alright. And it’s no the ban button.

[Yeats 62]

Jumpy has never seen eez ain feet for years. Unless looking in a mirror. (ane oh they carnival anes tae) Thought he was lena Zavaroni , instead oh Tony Macaroni.

[Arabknight]

Season ticket deadline extend. Is this because sales are going as well as expected or is this the norm?

[TerryTheTerror]

Season ticket deadline extend. Is this because sales are going as well as expected or is this the norm?

This is a usual thing that happens each year.

[dontjumphere]

Least the Dundee derby will be back. Good game to watch and Sky will nap it

[Stoke_Arab]

3 players that I'm assuming will be at Tannadice next season, Docherty Wotherspoon and Louis Moult. Other players will probably be added for these positions but....

Given their injury niggles is it a calculated risk that you're happy with?

[Stoke_Arab]

Least the Dundee derby will be back. Good game to watch and Sky will nap it

Sky are not showing any games from the Drizzle Drome next season because even in August there's no guarantee they'll go ahead.

[JUSTaway]

It's going to be an interesting few weeks/months, I wouldn't keep wetherspoon for the reason you highlight, decent player but we can't carry too many sick notes. Moult worth keeping as he has proved his fitness, but I wouldn't like him and watt leading the line next season, both are slow, and we don't have pace on the flanks either. I think Goodwin has to be ruthless.

Alternatively we could built spine of a team with bereghetti, denholm, tilson and grieve.

[Stoke_Arab]

Didn't really want to ask this before Friday night is done but are there any players in contract that you'd like us to invite offers for?

[Stoke_Arab]

It's going to be an interesting few weeks/months, I wouldn't keep wetherspoon for the reason you highlight, decent player but we can't carry too many sick notes. Moult worth keeping as he has proved his fitness, but I wouldn't like him and watt leading the line next season, both are slow, and we don't have pace on the flanks either. I think Goodwin has to be ruthless.

Alternatively we could built spine of a team with bereghetti, denholm, tilson and grieve.

I'm hearing Birighitti is close to agreeing a contract extension.

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Sorry ADS, just a wind up 😁

[arab777]

Copied from another forum


Loads of players out of contract:

David Wotherspoon
Louis Moult (apparently triggered an extension but nothing has been confirmed)
Craig Sibbald (again triggered an extension but also again, nothing official yet)
Kevin Holt
Scott McMann
Jack Walton (loan ends, also out of contract with Luton Town)
Archie Meekison
Ross Graham
Declan Glass
Sam McClelland (loan ends, loads of United fans want him in but I doubt St. Johnstone will let him go at an affordable price)
Chris Mochrie
Matthew Anim Cudjoe
Sadat Anaku
Alex Greive (loan ends, and may I never see him again. **** Simon Murray)
Jordan Tillson (loan ends, for some reason isn't listed at all on transfermarkt. not as bad as some United fans think he is but still not that good.)

So for next season we've got:

Declan Gallagher
Tony Watt
Ross Docherty
Liam Grimshaw
Glenn Middleton
Jack Newman
Kai Fotheringham

[Arabdownsouth]

I'm hearing Birighitti is close to agreeing a contract extension.

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⬇️
Sorry ADS, just a wind up 😁

I'm hearing it's a zero hours contract, zero hours spent anywhere f*cking near the place! 😉

[Stoke_Arab]

Copied from another forum


Loads of players out of contract:

David Wotherspoon
Louis Moult (apparently triggered an extension but nothing has been confirmed)
Craig Sibbald (again triggered an extension but also again, nothing official yet)
Kevin Holt
Scott McMann
Jack Walton (loan ends, also out of contract with Luton Town)
Archie Meekison
Ross Graham
Declan Glass
Sam McClelland (loan ends, loads of United fans want him in but I doubt St. Johnstone will let him go at an affordable price)
Chris Mochrie
Matthew Anim Cudjoe
Sadat Anaku
Alex Greive (loan ends, and may I never see him again. **** Simon Murray)
Jordan Tillson (loan ends, for some reason isn't listed at all on transfermarkt. not as bad as some United fans think he is but still not that good.)

So for next season we've got:

Declan Gallagher
Tony Watt
Ross Docherty
Liam Grimshaw
Glenn Middleton
Jack Newman
Kai Fotheringham

On that short list at the end there there's 3 players I'd be happy to see gone, irony...

It's a fantastic chance for a clearout and a reset. We need to be ruthless.

[Arabs4ever]

I'd keep Wotherspoon. He is a good professional. He lives in Perth, so he would also like to stay as being fairly local. Clever player IMO, one that the young midfielders at the club should look up to.

Of the others on that list, I would keep Moult, Sibbald, McMann, Walton if possible, Meekison, Graham and Mochrie. I don't think St Johnstone will sell McClelland to us. Might have to wait a year for him.

Would Craig MacGillivary be a good keeper to be the number one or compete with Walton? I don't think Newman is ready yet and we know only too well that having good goalies goes a long way in picking up points.

[Stoke_Arab]

I'd keep Wotherspoon. He is a good professional. He lives in Perth, so he would also like to stay as being fairly local. Clever player IMO, one that the young midfielders at the club should look up to.

Of the others on that list, I would keep Moult, Sibbald, McMann, Walton if possible, Meekison, Graham and Mochrie. I don't think St Johnstone will sell McClelland to us. Might have to wait a year for him.

Would Craig MacGillivary be a good keeper to be the number one or compete with Walton? I don't think Newman is ready yet and we know only too well that having good goalies goes a long way in picking up points.

Yeah, agree on Wotherspoon, Prem experience valuable but we'll need at least one more midfield playmaker to help Sibbald Docherty and Wotherspoon for suspensions/injuries.

[JUSTaway]

Wonder what the contract situation is with siegrist? Proven SPL, prob not want to come back, but year to rebuild his career. Walton still has a year of his contract with Luton, I like him, he has been a great signing for us, seems a good guy too, but didn't always have loads to do, so reliable but hard to judge shot stopping (last week excepted).

[JUSTaway]

Yeah, agree on Wotherspoon, Prem experience valuable but we'll need at least one more midfield playmaker to help Sibbald Docherty and Wotherspoon for suspensions/injuries.

How many games docherty and wetherspoon going to play though? I don't think you can rely on building team on either of those two with injuries.

[Stoke_Arab]

How many games docherty and wetherspoon going to play though? I don't think you can rely on building team on either of those two with injuries.

I agree. If we get 25 games from each of them we might be doing well. Hence my question.
Imo we need to sign two midfielders even if they stay.

[Chick A Saw]

I agree. If we get 25 games from each of them we might be doing well. Hence my question.
Imo we need to sign two midfielders even if they stay.

I would like to see both these guys in next years squad, but i dont see Wotherspoon as a game every week player. Doc on the other hand is who we should be building our team around, but there is the hope that this season is just one off as he doesnt have an injury history like Wotherspoon the past few years.

The danger is though that we loose the 2 who are out of contract, Sibbald(extention triggered?) and Wotherspoon, then we need 4 new midfielders. As long as we find as good or better than Doc/Sibbs, then think we will ok. If the answer is Tilson then i give up!

[Chick A Saw]

Of those out of contract

Im sure i dont need to mention the fecking clown by name! Get Tae!
Jack Walton, would have him back if a deal can be done.
Kevin Holt, Think he deserves another 2 year deal, but as understudy to Ross Graham, also 2 year deal.
Scott McMann, really steady season and a player i really like, but im tainted by last season. I am though minded that he was fecked about so much and maybe another 2 year deal.
Sam McClelland, Solid at this level, does make some mistakes that he has gotten away with, but if we can get him on a 2/3 year deal, he will improve and make us some money!
Craig Sibbald, hope he has triggered an extension, but i hope we can negotiate a longer stay.
David Wotherspoon, 1 year deal as a squad player.
Louis Moult, deserves an extension, but fear he has other offers!

Chris Mochrie, i think the romance surrounding his key goals this season is clouding my judgement, but he really should be commanding a starting spot by now, so is it time?

As for Archie Meekison, Declan Glass and Matthew Anim Cudjoe, i dont think they have done enough to merit a new contract so its time to move on.

Sadat Anaku, i think is the epitome of what was so bad about the Asghar era, then he got injured to make matters worse! I think there is a duty of care issue here where the club should be getting him back to fitness before releasing him.

As for Alex Greive and Jordan Tillson, i really hope they are not in next seasons plans!

So for next season we've got:

Declan Gallagher, understudy to McClelland.
Tony Watt, devides opinion, but would offer him an extension for a reduced annual wage, but we need more from him.
Ross Docherty, build the team around him and Sibbald.
Liam Grimshaw, hate me if you want, but he was good for this level, but no confidence in him for next season.
Glenn Middleton, His assists speak for themselves, but he should be looking at Kais goal stats!
Jack Newman, need to see where he is at.
Kai Fotheringham, fear we may get an offer for him, but i would negotiate an extension but needs to work on his consistency and wonder what that would do for his goal tally!

If i have that right, thats 15 players, so i expect we could do with another 7 players for a baseline squad with back up from the youngsters. Hopefully the backing we have given them this season, along with transfer clause payments, then fingers crossed there is money available for a healthy summer.

[LSArab]

Of those out of contract

Im sure i dont need to mention the fecking clown by name! Get Tae!
Jack Walton, would have him back if a deal can be done.
Kevin Holt, Think he deserves another 2 year deal, but as understudy to Ross Graham, also 2 year deal.
Scott McMann, really steady season and a player i really like, but im tainted by last season. I am though minded that he was fecked about so much and maybe another 2 year deal.
Sam McClelland, Solid at this level, does make some mistakes that he has gotten away with, but if we can get him on a 2/3 year deal, he will improve and make us some money!
Craig Sibbald, hope he has triggered an extension, but i hope we can negotiate a longer stay.
David Wotherspoon, 1 year deal as a squad player.
Louis Moult, deserves an extension, but fear he has other offers!

Chris Mochrie, i think the romance surrounding his key goals this season is clouding my judgement, but he really should be commanding a starting spot by now, so is it time?

As for Archie Meekison, Declan Glass and Matthew Anim Cudjoe, i dont think they have done enough to merit a new contract so its time to move on.

Sadat Anaku, i think is the epitome of what was so bad about the Asghar era, then he got injured to make matters worse! I think there is a duty of care issue here where the club should be getting him back to fitness before releasing him.

As for Alex Greive and Jordan Tillson, i really hope they are not in next seasons plans!

So for next season we've got:

Declan Gallagher, understudy to McClelland.
Tony Watt, devides opinion, but would offer him an extension for a reduced annual wage, but we need more from him.
Ross Docherty, build the team around him and Sibbald.
Liam Grimshaw, hate me if you want, but he was good for this level, but no confidence in him for next season.
Glenn Middleton, His assists speak for themselves, but he should be looking at Kais goal stats!
Jack Newman, need to see where he is at.
Kai Fotheringham, fear we may get an offer for him, but i would negotiate an extension but needs to work on his consistency and wonder what that would do for his goal tally!

If i have that right, thats 15 players, so i expect we could do with another 7 players for a baseline squad with back up from the youngsters. Hopefully the backing we have given them this season, along with transfer clause payments, then fingers crossed there is money available for a healthy summer.


Fair summary.

Be good if we could get McClelland and Walton back.

Also there is Miller T who is quality and we should tie to a long term deal

I presume Logan Chalmers is now out of contract and will head to Ayr or similar

Liam McLeod / Owen Stirton still young and could be in matchday squads

[JUSTaway]

St Johnstone might be more willing to do business if they get relegated. Mclelland and Holt are untested at SPL level, think both might struggle against nippy pacey players you don't come up against in championship. Gallagher has not looked as good since injury. I think Holt deserves a contract, plus he can cover left back. Really harsh on mcmann, as he has been one of our most consistent players, but if his contract is up, then you could get an upgrade possibly there. Right back is a glaring area that needs strengthening. It's all about quality you bring in though, all fair and well me saying get rid of certain players, but if the replacements aren't up to it.

[weegiearab]

I wouldn't be surprised to see some of our out of contract lads go down south to chase the money in the lower leagues. I think that we are going to have to move real quick in the transfer market, because we are needing one helluva transfer window.

[JamesMcClean]

Sam McLelland on the face of it looks like one that if St J get relegated we may be able to pick up. However, conversely as someone who has proven himself more than capable of holding his own in the Championship, they may prefer to hang on to him and ditch some of the older ones and any others out of contract at the same time as they inevitably reduced their wage bill. Therefore you could argue our best chance of getting him would actually be if they stayed up. It’s a tricky one.

[Chick A Saw]

Fair summary.

Be good if we could get McClelland and Walton back.

Also there is Miller T who is quality and we should tie to a long term deal

I presume Logan Chalmers is now out of contract and will head to Ayr or similar

Liam McLeod / Owen Stirton still young and could be in matchday squads

Is Miller T out of contract? He is some prospect as ive liked watching him this season, up front before he went on loan, and when called on when others dropped off a bit. Need him on a decent length contract!

Logan is sadly in the same bracket as Glass as ive just not seen him do enough!

[cybershed]

Is Miller T out of contract? He is some prospect as ive liked watching him this season, up front before he went on loan, and when called on when others dropped off a bit. Need him on a decent length contract!

Logan is sadly in the same bracket as Glass as ive just not seen him do enough!

Pretty sure we'll offer MT a decent 1st team contract. But if he is out of contract I'm sure there will be other suitors sniffing around him and his agent. I reckon he can make the step up to the Prem. He's still got room for improvement. But I think he can make that improvement by sticking with us.

With a few players incoming over the summer, competition for 1st team jerseys will be tougher. But if he can kick on he will surely get a good number of games under his belt next season.

[Arabdownsouth]

Louis Moult surely staying on? Absolutely loved his celebrations last night,looks like he belongs at Tannadice and has found a home.

Terrific performance from the team tonight and last week's limp performance is forgiven and forgotten. That was some performance from the fans though!

Had a fantastic night after a few hiccups on the road,met some brilliant Arabs before, during and after the game. A night that will live long in my memory!

[Stoke_Arab]

Louis Moult surely staying on? Absolutely loved his celebrations last night,looks like he belongs at Tannadice and has found a home.

Terrific performance from the team tonight and last week's limp performance is forgiven and forgotten. That was some performance from the fans though!

Had a fantastic night after a few hiccups on the road,met some brilliant Arabs before, during and after the game. A night that will live long in my memory!

Glad you enjoyed it ADS, it looked great on the telly. Display guys deserve massive thanks.
Played some lovely stuff in the second half.
I agree with you about Louis Louie, body language suggested to me he's staying.
Now if we could get someone to partner him....Kevin Van Veen or similar.....

https://youtu.be/1RZJ4ESU52U?si=wg7lD3A0yfxpTIb-

[weegiearab]

Spoon Dog has left the building!

[bannon_ftd_83]

Spoon Dog has left the building!

Weird. Quality player.

[TerryTheTerror]

Weird. Quality player.

He hasn't done enough to earn a deal.

[Stoke_Arab]

He hasn't done enough to earn a deal.

It also removes the question mark about the number of games we'll get injury free from him and Docherty together.

[Whitfieldarab]

He hasn't done enough to earn a deal.

Agree

[Arabs4ever]

Tillson getting a deal?

[ScotinUSA]

I thought the old centre backs looked like old centre backs when they came on. Not so much Holt, but distinct difference between both sets.

[Chick A Saw]

I thought the old centre backs looked like old centre backs when they came on. Not so much Holt, but distinct difference between both sets.

Looked to me like 2 guys who were still recovering from their injuries.

Sad to see Wotherspoon is moving on, but understandable given his recent history with injuries and would be little more than a squad player for us next season.

[Arabknight]

Agree. Mentioned it before. If holt and Gallagher were able to play the remainder of the season. I don’t think we get the performances from the team we got since graham and McClendon came. We were far more direct with these two. None of this passing about the back and slowing the game down.

Don’t get me wrong. Both played a massive part in our promotion and we owe them a great deal but the lack of urgency and continual diagonal balls played out from Gallagher may not have made a comfortable viewing.

[Yeats 62]

He hasn't done enough to earn a deal.

Injuries apart, I thought he looked pretty steady when played. SPL experience. I would have given him a one year deal or a pay as you play sort of deal (if they exist now) He always took responsibility when on the park , directing traffic etc.

Depends who we bring in right enough.

You can't earn, if yi ain't workin' sort oh thing...

[JUSTaway]

Utd/Goodwin have to be ruthless with player assessment, last night reminds you of the potential, but we need to put these banter years behind us.

No doubt mclelland/Graham style helped us get the ball forward and make chances, but can't forget the base Gallagher/Holt gave us first half of season. Definitely a lack of pace in defence.

[Stoke_Arab]

Utd/Goodwin have to be ruthless with player assessment, last night reminds you of the potential, but we need to put these banter years behind us.

No doubt mclelland/Graham style helped us get the ball forward and make chances, but can't forget the base Gallagher/Holt gave us first half of season. Definitely a lack of pace in defence.

We have to ruthless, I agree, but ruthless in all areas of the side.
The brutal reality is that without an injection of 6 or 7 players we will definitely struggle next season. There are some players in and out of contract that we need to let go. It's harsh but we are in the business of winning football games. I'm not going to name these players until the celebrations are over because they all deserve thanks for the job they've done.

My worry though is that we won't be ruthless enough. Fingers crossed.

[Stoke_Arab]

Any rumours that we're going to see a list of released players this week? Or is it going to be drip feed.

[Stoke_Arab]

Couple of surprises in this list?
Official departures

https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/8393/SQUAD-UPDATE--MAY-2024-.html

[arab1970]

mochrie and Mcmann away and kept Cudjoe. Surprised at that

[JamesMcClean]

Couple of surprises in this list?
Official departures

https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/8393/SQUAD-UPDATE--MAY-2024-.html


Scott McMann stands out there. Also Flynn Duffy - I thought he was well thought of as well. This just shows we are indeed going to be pretty ruthless. The fact that guys like Holt and Cudjoe are not on it may not necessarily mean they’re staying. It could just mean we’ve entered into extension discussions which may yet not come to anything.

Amazed Birighitti is being released though.

[Stoke_Arab]

Scott McMann stands out there. Also Flynn Duffy - I thought he was well thought of as well. This just shows we are indeed going to be pretty ruthless. The fact that guys like Holt and Cudjoe are not on it may not necessarily mean they’re staying. It could just mean we’ve entered into extension discussions which may yet not come to anything.

Amazed Birighitti is being released though.

"Initial squad update" - as you say might be a few more to come in the days ahead.

[Stoke_Arab]

mochrie and Mcmann away and kept Cudjoe. Surprised at that

And Meekison too.
So that debate is finally done.
Mochrie Glass Meekison...

[Sutherland Arab]

Honestly the only one from that list I'm bothered about is Mochrie, although I can understand why with us moving up a league and he hasn't forced his way into the team like Fotheringham and Graham. I did hope the 3 last minute winners from him might have swayed it though.
Don't like seeing any of young players being released but if there is something there technically there maybe just isn't enough mental strength to realistically make an impact.
Wish McMann well but I think we need to look for better.

[LSArab]

It’s harsh

Like others I had hoped Glass Meekison and Mochrie could make a big impact

They contributed but ultimately hard to argue against

JG seemed not to like Flynn as he played McMann during injury rather than put him in. McMann is a shock

Birighiti is away 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

Ultimately I am happy for JG to make the tough decisions.

Look at the funsters

Better to get a quality left back in on loan than try with someone who is not quite good enough

[Stoke_Arab]

It’s harsh

Like others I had hoped Glass Meekison and Mochrie could make a big impact

They contributed but ultimately hard to argue against

JG seemed not to like Flynn as he played McMann during injury rather than put him in. McMann is a shock

Birighiti is away 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

Ultimately I am happy for JG to make the tough decisions.

Look at the funsters

Better to get a quality left back in on loan than try with someone who is not quite good enough

With McMann and Duffy away we'll be signing at least one left back, maybe 2 if he won't play Holt there in the Prem. Wonder if we've agreed a deal somewhere.

[arab1970]

bit gutted for Mochrie, wins the league for us and 2 weeks later released. As quick with the ball as without but ultimately never got going for us for whatever reason.

[shedka]

McMann - mistake letting him go united we have two that are atleast as good lined up, we'll need two left backs

Mochrie - this is the other I think is a mistake, he's very talented and drives forward and can take players out of play especially when they are tiring, needs a bit more belief but would have kept him for sure

Can't help but think we'll regret atleast one of these

Just hoping it's because we have some really good gems lined up

[arab1970]

McMann - mistake letting him go united we have two that are atleast as good lined up, we'll need two left backs

Mochrie - this is the other I think is a mistake, he's very talented and drives forward and can take players out of play especially when they are tiring, needs a bit more belief but would have kept him for sure

Can't help but think we'll regret atleast one of these

Just hoping it's because we have some really good gems lined up

Goodman will be sacked by October I have always thought that. Cant get a team playing football, got out of it by going long and playing for 2nd balls wont work in the top division.

[Stoke_Arab]

Goodman will be sacked by October I have always thought that. Cant get a team playing football, got out of it by going long and playing for 2nd balls wont work in the top division.

It's a worry, but maybe for a different thread?

[NOSCOTCAPS]

McMann - solid player and been good servant but I think championship is his level.
Mochrie - mistake to let go, he’s still young and didn’t get that much game time in comparison
Meekison - ditto and hampered by injury
Glass - probably attitude and lack of pace but then so did people like Charlie Adam and Harkins, but despite the fact that they were DWs both had great ability to turn games. Glass in my opinion has that ability.
Cudjoe - I like although a bit lightweight but there is good ability there.

I’ll be annoyed if any of the above are being punted to make future offers for Tilson and Grieve, just have a bad feeling!

[arab1970]

It's a worry, but maybe for a different thread?

your right, leave it till gameweek 4 next season hahaha

[arab1970]

McMann - solid player and been good servant but I think championship is his level.
Mochrie - mistake to let go, he’s still young and didn’t get that much game time in comparison
Meekison - ditto and hampered by injury
Glass - probably attitude and lack of pace but then so did people like Charlie Adam and Harkins, but despite the fact that they were DWs both had great ability to turn games. Glass in my opinion has that ability.
Cudjoe - I like although a bit lightweight but there is good ability there.

I’ll be annoyed if any of the above are being punted to make future offers for Tilson and Grieve, just have a bad feeling!

Crazy to think Mochrie was at Man city and Liverpool for trials as a teanager, potential is there if he can realise it, some dont.

Meekison and Glass good technical players and wee cudjoe is always fun to watch

[tHeArAb]

Not a single player in that list that I'm bothered about. McMann is a shock, but only as I thought the manager liked him. The rest haven't done anywhere near enough to show they are good enough for the Championship, never mind the Prem.

[Yeats 62]

Hopefully the management team are doing what they did very well this season, and are going for a horses for courses type oh thing.

I had my doubts at times this season about a few things, yet , here we are, can't really argue, credit due etc...

Now...hopefully a wee bit better pot to dip in to. Season tickets sales (not sure if they count) better sponsors maybe? TV rights etc. Might allow us to punch above our current weight, to stabalise the ship, for Europe, the season after...

Seemingly, it can happen... :D:D

[JamesMcClean]

Further to today’s announcement of course is that we as yet still don’t know what is happening with the Brentford/Brighton thing, particularly now that we’ve achieved the primary goal. Perhaps today is a prelude to bigger and better things on the horizon potentially?

[Arabs4ever]

I thought Mochrie would have been kept as he has the ability to drift past players and stick the ball in the net. Craig Moore had one good game at Ibrox and injuries after that have probably led to his release.

We're needing clever midfielders who can take the ball under pressure. A playmaker and a goal-scoring midfielder would be nice. A Telesnikov kind of player along with a Brebner/Miller type would be great.

Is the boy Jack Grimmer formerly of Aberdeen a left-back?

[JUSTaway]

Most these youngsters can go on to make good careers for themselves, getting away from tannadice and playing regularly will possibly be good for them. Slightly disappointed to see mochrie go, I believe he has something, but can't say they didn't get chances. I suspect more to come.

[Stoke_Arab]

Most these youngsters can go on to make good careers for themselves, getting away from tannadice and playing regularly will possibly be good for them. Slightly disappointed to see mochrie go, I believe he has something, but can't say they didn't get chances. I suspect more to come.

I think Meekison is the one.
Guess we'll find out eventually.

[Stoke_Arab]

It's a very bad reflection on our Academy.
We need to stop developing 5 a side players who might become pros and start developing athletes who can play Premiership football.

[arab1970]

It's a very bad reflection on our Academy.
We need to stop developing 5 a side players who might become pros and start developing athletes who can play Premiership football.

yeah we need hoofball merchants

[Stoke_Arab]

yeah we need hoofball merchants

No. Never said that. Well developed physically and able to play.

[Arabs4ever]

No. Never said that. Well developed physically and able to play.

Get them playing regularly with established players in a reserve side. It worked back in the day. If it ain't broke...........

[JUSTaway]

No. Never said that. Well developed physically and able to play.

That's the entire midfield that played well when we were hit by COVID against rangers at Ibrox about 2 1/2 years ago let go. That was only time I actually thought our much vaunted youth system might be more than just that. Gave me a lot of hope that day, but come to nothing. In meekisons case injury and change of manager didn't help, he was establishing himself under courts then jettisoned by jack Ross. I'd say it should be reviewed but probably hardly any staff left from the past 4-5 years. Apart from bowman obviously!

[Stoke_Arab]

That's the entire midfield that played well when we were hit by COVID against rangers at Ibrox about 2 1/2 years ago let go. That was only time I actually thought our much vaunted youth system might be more than just that. Gave me a lot of hope that day, but come to nothing. In meekisons case injury and change of manager didn't help, he was establishing himself under courts then jettisoned by jack Ross. I'd say it should be reviewed but probably hardly any staff left from the past 4-5 years. Apart from bowman obviously!

Been saying for 2 or 3 years that the academy needs ripped up and started again. Ogren and Capuano seem to have no idea. If we get the investment from down south they'll insist on it as part of the deal.

[Sutherland Arab]

Maybe we need more youngsters with the mental capabilities to succeed. The drive and belief to break into the first team.
Perhaps there is a culture problem rather than a lack of physical or technical attributes.

[Chick A Saw]

Been saying for 2 or 3 years that the academy needs ripped up and started again. Ogren and Capuano seem to have no idea. If we get the investment from down south they'll insist on it as part of the deal.

Thats a bit harsh about the academy as none of the talent found through the current set up will be as yet ready to make that step up to the big team. I also think that it may just be the usual success rate is showing that Kerr Smith, Louis Nielson and Ross Graham are the ones to get a move or into the first team. But they are all from the ST era when im not sure we had the right people in charge post a certain Mr S Campbell time at the club.

I do though see that, because of who Mark Ogren appointed to set everything up, the talent may not be of the required standard, but are Lewis O'Donnell, Owen Stirton and Rory McLeod the first potential fruits of the modern era of our youth development? That system needs time to see if it will work.

Like others im quite sad to see Scott McMann is on his way because of what he did this season, but ive said before, his time here is tainted by being part of an absolutely horrendous team that put us down last season.

And while i have seen them play quite well at times, i think injury has robbed Glass and Meekieson of their futures, but i would like to have seen Mochrie get at least a years extension to see if he could build on those 3 important goals this season.

As for the others, dont know enough about the youngsters, and thank feck that fecking Clown is away tae feck!

[Arabdownsouth]

It's a worry, but maybe for a different thread?
Who the **** is Goodman though? 🤣 I hope arab1970 and willie26 are not the same guy but he's the only other one I've ever seen refer to JG as Goodman

[shedka]

Mochrie was apparently offered a deal so much have something else on mind, someone else saying Airdrie due to the agency he joined and a lot of them being on Airdrie's books, would definitely suit McCabes style of play

[DBDU]

Not a single player in that list that I'm bothered about. McMann is a shock, but only as I thought the manager liked him. The rest haven't done anywhere near enough to show they are good enough for the Championship, never mind the Prem.

Totally agree as harsh as that sounds .

The reality is there ought to be quite a few more following this lot out the door or we will struggle big time .

If anyone truly believes we can go in to next season with pretty much any of that side its delusional .

At best most , except for perhaps Literally only 1 or 2 exceptions, would be no more than squad players unless we are planing on battling relegation from the get-go .

As I say that may come across as harsh on the back of the high of winning the title but it is IMO an accurate assessment .

Don't shoot the messenger

[TerryTheTerror]

I don't agree that only 1 or 2 of the players would be able to step up. More of them already have good Premiership experience.

[shedka]

He must think it's La Liga we are stepping into

[bannon_ftd_83]

We finished 4 in the top league with a team not much better than this one. The league is not that good. Had we sorted a keeper more recently we wouldn't have been near the bottom of the league IMO.

[Chick A Saw]

Totally agree as harsh as that sounds .

The reality is there ought to be quite a few more following this lot out the door or we will struggle big time .

If anyone truly believes we can go in to next season with pretty much any of that side its delusional .

At best most , except for perhaps Literally only 1 or 2 exceptions, would be no more than squad players unless we are planing on battling relegation from the get-go .

As I say that may come across as harsh on the back of the high of winning the title but it is IMO an accurate assessment .

Don't shoot the messenger

Trying no to shoot the messenger here, but to add to the conversation.

Someone made a very good point here somewhere that it would be rather foolhardy to just offload this seasons squad and head north with a brand new team. I believe that theory has been proved on more than one occasion. At this minute, we are not that far off doing just that.

To blunt shedkas comment a tad, are we expecting season 1 consolidation, then season 2 back in Europe like last time? I said at the last promotion that survival season 1, consolidation season 2, then maybe push for top 6 season 3 is what we should be aiming for, and because of what happened next, i stand by that 3 or 4 season requirement.

I will keep saying that i hope Mark Ogren has learned from the mistakes made if he stays around, but if change of ownership is to come, then i hope we head into the future with our eyes open!

[cybershed]

It's clear to all though, that this season's squad are nowhere good enough to be anything other than relegation fodder in the Premier League.

It's a tough old league the SPL. I think the Dees have only managed 10 league wins all season and yet they managed top six! Next year, the sheep and the Hibs will surely put up a challenge for the top six.

IMO we need 7 to 8 players incoming in terms of squad. That will still be a very lean squad in terms of the SPL.

Out of the 8 incoming, I expect 4 or 5 'starting 11' standard.

BTW, that maybe not even be enough. Obviously we need a new GK and understudy. There's 2 salaries knocked off the outfield budget already.

Better make that 7-8 incoming excluding the 2 GKs!

[Stoke_Arab]

It's clear to all though, that this season's squad are nowhere good enough to be anything other than relegation fodder in the Premier League.

It's a tough old league the SPL. I think the Dees have only managed 10 league wins all season and yet they managed top six! Next year, the sheep and the Hibs will surely put up a challenge for the top six.

IMO we need 7 to 8 players incoming in terms of squad. That will still be a very lean squad in terms of the SPL.

Out of the 8 incoming, I expect 4 or 5 'starting 11' standard.

BTW, that maybe not even be enough. Obviously we need a new GK and understudy. There's 2 salaries knocked off the outfield budget already.

Better make that 7-8 incoming excluding the 2 GKs!

I pretty much agree with this.
Kai and Miller Thomson would not start in my first 11, nor would Mathew Cudjoe. Liam Grimshaw at RB, doubt it.
Glen Middleton is one footed and was sussed out by opposition coaches early on.
Central Defence, a debate there maybe, Gallagher Holt Graham, is that good enough for the Prem?
Watt, how often will he show up with what we know he can do?
Moult, can he play every game, doubtful, and will he score the goals we need? Maybe

Docherty and Sibbald I think will be fine but we need to add one more there.

A hell of a lot of questions that needs answers

GK 2
RB 1
LB 1 and 1 cover?
CB 1 ?
Midfield 1
Striker 1

[weegiearab]

I'm going to put my tin hat firmly on here and state that I don't think Moult is a very good striker. I think if we are to have any chance of staying up, then we must strengthen our attacking options. How many times did JG state that we were poor in the final third? We need pace, trickery and a clinical striker. I also, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, think we need a coach in to work with our forwards. Scoring goals is going to be made a lot harder in the SPL...we can all remember the games where we registered 1 shot in a full 90 minutes. If we are only getting one shot...we are going to have to make sure it goes in!

[Arabdownsouth]

Totally agree as harsh as that sounds .

The reality is there ought to be quite a few more following this lot out the door or we will struggle big time .

If anyone truly believes we can go in to next season with pretty much any of that side its delusional .

At best most , except for perhaps Literally only 1 or 2 exceptions, would be no more than squad players unless we are planing on battling relegation from the get-go .

As I say that may come across as harsh on the back of the high of winning the title but it is IMO an accurate assessment .

Don't shoot the messenger

Nonsense post if you ask me. Whilst I've moaned as much as anyone at times,you simply can't just empty a title winning squad entirely. There are players there that will form the spine of this team next season whether you like it or not.

[Stoke_Arab]

I'm going to put my tin hat firmly on here and state that I don't think Moult is a very good striker. I think if we are to have any chance of staying up, then we must strengthen our attacking options. How many times did JG state that we were poor in the final third? We need pace, trickery and a clinical striker. I also, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, think we need a coach in to work with our forwards. Scoring goals is going to be made a lot harder in the SPL...we can all remember the games where we registered 1 shot in a full 90 minutes. If we are only getting one shot...we are going to have to make sure it goes in!

One of the reasons strikers have struggled at times for us is that we don't play in a style that makes enough good chances for them.
We mostly don't play around the outside of the box and look for a player to play a through ball that gives the striker a one on one.
We didn't do it at all for Fletcher and we haven't done it very often this season for Moult. Long punts and second balls won't win you enough games in the Prem.

If we can find a creative player that plays in front of Docherty and Sibbald it will lead to Moult goals.
And a winger who can go inside and out....
But finding those players is the tricky bit.

[Stoke_Arab]

Nonsense post if you ask me. Whilst I've moaned as much as anyone at times,you simply can't just empty a title winning squad entirely. There are players there that will form the spine of this team next season whether you like it or not.

I think it's probably somewhere in between. I've asked a couple of fans of other clubs what they think, these guys are no mugs and they also think we need at least 7 additions to survive.

Gallagher if he gets his sharpness back, Holt I think can step up.
Docherty yes, Sibbald yes, Moult yes. For me the jury is out on the others. I've no doubt we'll see Middleton and Watt again although if I was the recruitment guy I'd be looking to offload those two for better.
Many observers think we need 7 or even 8, I have a feeling we'll get 4 or 5 max.

Who from this season's squad would you be happy to start in our first Premiership fixture?

[NOSCOTCAPS]

One of the reasons strikers have struggled at times for us is that we don't play in a style that makes enough good chances for them.
We mostly don't play around the outside of the box and look for a player to play a through ball that gives the striker a one on one.
We didn't do it at all for Fletcher and we haven't done it very often this season for Moult. Long punts and second balls won't win you enough games in the Prem.

If we can find a creative player that plays in front of Docherty and Sibbald it will lead to Moult goals.
And a winger who can go inside and out....
But finding those players is the tricky bit.

I think we have just let 3 creative midfielders go in Mochrie, Meekison and Glass, probably in that order of merit. If we sign another Tillson type then I would be disappointed. The 3 aforementioned will walk into any championship team and at least 2 of them given more game time and preferred position in a mid to lower Premiership team, i.e. a Motherwell, Hibs, St Mirren etc. only time will tell, but on their game you’d pay good money to watch them, in my opinion.

[Stoke_Arab]

I think we have just let 3 creative midfielders go in Mochrie, Meekison and Glass, probably in that order of merit. If we sign another Tillson type then I would be disappointed. The 3 aforementioned will walk into any championship team and at least 2 of them given more game time and preferred position in a mid to lower Premiership team, i.e. a Motherwell, Hibs, St Mirren etc. only time will tell, but on their game you’d pay good money to watch them, in my opinion.
I don't think we'll sign another Tillson type.
The three players you mentioned above have failed to consistently influence games in the Championship. Mochrie and Meekison have been a bit unlucky. Meekison I think will end up the best of that 3, only time will tell.
I wish them well and I'll be watching their progress but there's no chance any of them is good enough to be first choice at Motherwell Hibs or St Mirren. Not yet anyway.

We need stronger, more athletic and aggressive players who don't get brushed off the ball and can impact a game on a consistent basis.

[Arabdownsouth]

I think it's probably somewhere in between. I've asked a couple of fans of other clubs what they think, these guys are no mugs and they also think we need at least 7 additions to survive.

Gallagher if he gets his sharpness back, Holt I think can step up.
Docherty yes, Sibbald yes, Moult yes. For me the jury is out on the others. I've no doubt we'll see Middleton and Watt again although if I was the recruitment guy I'd be looking to offload those two for better.
Many observers think we need 7 or even 8, I have a feeling we'll get 4 or 5 max.

Who from this season's squad would you be happy to start in our first Premiership fixture?

Sibbald, Docherty,Moult,Graham, Gallagher and probably Middleton on his best form,Tony Watt if playing with desire too. Keeper if he comes back also.

[Stoke_Arab]

Quite long at 34 minutes, but Twa Teams one Street Courier podcast discusses departures, transfer strategy, fanbase, next season and plenty more.

https://youtu.be/cCl-xpfRn0I?si=9pyTAFUGWJK92pMq

[Chick A Saw]

Been thinking, dangerous i know, but are the likes of McMann, and to a lesser extent Meekieson, Mochrie and Glass on the way out because they are on wages that are not sustainable?

Long hard summer ahead if others cant agree terms!

[TerryTheTerror]

Those young lads won't be on big money (and I doubt McMann is) so I'd say no, that's not the reason.

[arab1970]

Those young lads won't be on big money (and I doubt McMann is) so I'd say no, that's not the reason.

Agree. Thats not the reason.

Still dont understand the Cudjoe thing, was getting a lot less gametime than Mochrie and Defo Mcmann. I dont even think Goodwin likes him.

People saying its for the development fee but as its only been 3 years so will be peanuts.

[arab1970]

Sibbald, Docherty,Moult,Graham, Gallagher and probably Middleton on his best form,Tony Watt if playing with desire too. Keeper if he comes back also.

Middleton will be a complete disaster in the prem, so predictable and if he's up against a decent RB......

[TerryTheTerror]

Middleton will be a complete disaster in the prem, so predictable and if he's up against a decent RB......

He's got better as the seasons went on I think. All we really need him to do is create a little bit of space past the defender and fire the ball in. I think he's been really good at that for quite a while now and I think he'll be able to do it in the premiership too.

[bannon_ftd_83]

I'm going to put my tin hat firmly on here and state that I don't think Moult is a very good striker. I think if we are to have any chance of staying up, then we must strengthen our attacking options. How many times did JG state that we were poor in the final third? We need pace, trickery and a clinical striker. I also, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, think we need a coach in to work with our forwards. Scoring goals is going to be made a lot harder in the SPL...we can all remember the games where we registered 1 shot in a full 90 minutes. If we are only getting one shot...we are going to have to make sure it goes in!

I absolutely agree about Moult. I would put Kai and Middleton in the same category too. The front line needs a complete overhaul with these guys being 2nd choice imo.

[JamesMcClean]

Middleton will be a complete disaster in the prem, so predictable and if he's up against a decent RB......


5th place finish, League Cup and Scottish Cup in a single season with St J would suggest otherwise.

[Chick A Saw]

Those young lads won't be on big money (and I doubt McMann is) so I'd say no, that's not the reason.

Thing is, i didnt mention big money, but can you be 100% sure that the regime in place before Goodwin came in has not spanked out good money on players like McMann, and gave over the odds for the next generation? Last season we are reported to have trimmed £2.6m off the wage bill with some big wage players being moved on, so are we still in that kind of mindset, but with players on lower wages?

[Arabdownsouth]

Louis Moult scored 38 goals in 84 games for Motherwell in the top flight so my opinion is he'll be just fine, so long as he stays fit. Yes I'd love us to sign a top quality striker to keep competition for places at a premium but do not agree with some of the opinions on here. Middleton has looked unplayable at times,although needs to be more consistent as well. Agree a striker coach would be invaluable though. Louis Moult looks like he loves playing for united too, I want players here that love playing for us, we've had plenty that didn't give a f*ck.

[JUSTaway]

5th place finish, League Cup and Scottish Cup in a single season with St J would suggest otherwise.

Middleton is one dimensional, he has been decent for us this season, but anyone watching Utd this season can see that, he goes outside his full back, but can't go inside, and doesn't have a trick, he isn't slow, but isn't blinding fast either. Not writing him off, think he can be a decent squad player, he has put in some great deliveries this season, but better standard of full back going to make that one tactic/trick less potent. I think Goodwin should have moved him about a bit more at times this season, you can see his finishes against Alkmaar, Queens Park and Morton he can cut in on his left and put a decent finish.

There isn't one Utd player I'd be worried about losing, I would like to see a few more moved on, depending on what is coming in of course. I know it's about consolidating this season, but how many of the current crop are top 6 players? It's not like in the past when you feared losing a GMS, Gauld, Armstrong, Russell, Goodwillie etc... Courts, and Mellon to a lesser extent, of course proved you don't need the best players to make a team better than the sum of its parts.

[Sutherland Arab]

Need real competition for places next season. There are a number of our current players who should be able to cut it in the Premiership. The problem though would be if they are being chosen every game regardless of form.
Too many times in recent seasons have looked through the squad thinking only one or two subs could actually come on and influence the game and that's maybe being generous.
At the moment the only players I'd be very confident in being automatic first picks if fit are Sibbald and Docherty.

[Chick A Saw]

Need real competition for places next season. There are a number of our current players who should be able to cut it in the Premiership. The problem though would be if they are being chosen every game regardless of form.
Too many times in recent seasons have looked through the squad thinking only one or two subs could actually come on and influence the game and that's maybe being generous.
At the moment the only players I'd be very confident in being automatic first picks if fit are Sibbald and Docherty.

I agree that Sibbald should be a first pick, and i know he has triggered an extension, but he is not as yet signed on the dotted line for now. For me, Holt, Graham and Moult are also starters that we are still waiting on.

[tangeron]

Don't know if Docherty ,Gallagher, Moult could stand up to the rigours of the top league we need some big muscular guys who won't be bullied like we were in Dunfermline game.