OT - Cardinal O'brien Dead

Keith O'Brien, the disgraced Cardinal and once leader of Scottish Catholics dies 2 days after turning 80.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ch-leader-dies

It's rare to consider the passing of someone as 'deserved,' but IMO I think this is deserved. After all the misery and hypocrisy he committed and never fully facing the proper retribution for it.
Instead he was allowed to retire in peace in Newcastle instead of a prosecution and possible imprisonment.

I'm a Catholic, and while I accept that forgiveness and absolution of sins are rights to everyone, I also believe that it should come with proper due process under civil or State laws. He can receive that forgiveness after contrition while being a prisoner in jail. No *****phile or ***ual abuser should be allowed to go unpunished under Laws that's applicable to all of us.

It's hoped his death can at least bring closure to those he severely and irreparably harmed.

More cans of worms still to be opened on that I fear and I do not refer solely to the Catholic Church.

Take the Jehovah's Witnesses. Oh yes, FFS someone take them............. as far away as possible. ***ual assault and rape allegations against JWs by JWs, according to the JW "handbook" must not be taken to the police. The JW has a special commission to investigate. The rules under which it carries out its business are heavily stacked, very heavily stacked, in favour of the perpetrator. It also helps keep the JW away from the sort of publicity the Catholic Church has had on child and ***ual abuse down the years. This knowledge has only come outside of the JW and into the public domain in the past couple of months.

Yet another reason to hate organised religion and another pointer to it being little more than a control mechanism. (lights blue touch paper and hides behind the sofa)......

PS - there are times like this that you wish there really was a hell

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

More cans of worms still to be opened on that I fear and I do not refer solely to the Catholic Church.

Take the Jehovah's Witnesses. Oh yes, FFS someone take them............. as far away as possible. ***ual assault and rape allegations against JWs by JWs, according to the JW "handbook" must not be taken to the police. The JW has a special commission to investigate. The rules under which it carries out its business are heavily stacked, very heavily stacked, in favour of the perpetrator. It also helps keep the JW away from the sort of publicity the Catholic Church has had on child and ***ual abuse down the years. This knowledge has only come outside of the JW and into the public domain in the past couple of months.

Yet another reason to hate organised religion and another pointer to it being little more than a control mechanism. (lights blue touch paper and hides behind the sofa)......

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Really? I feel much the same about organised religion as you MA, but I had no idea about the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Thought they were just a bunch of cranks who turn up on the doorstep occasionally wearing bad suits, looking a bit sad and wanting to find a new friend.
I always felt sorry for their kids at Christmas when they weren’t allowed to take part in seasonal parties and discos etc...never realised they had a more sinister side.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Really? I feel much the same about organised religion as you MA, but I had no idea about the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Thought they were just a bunch of cranks who turn up on the doorstep occasionally wearing bad suits, looking a bit sad and wanting to find a new friend.
I always felt sorry for their kids at Christmas when they weren’t allowed to take part in seasonal parties and discos etc...never realised they had a more sinister side.

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In the past year or so there have been around 50 girls and women in Holland who have gone public (the estimate of cases in the past 20 years is well into the hundreds), gone to the police and there are now calls for a public inquiry. JWs are encouraged not to report abuse to the police but have it dealt with by their own "court". Going public would harm the JW cause (no **** sherlock).

I took this from a BBC web page..............I've spoken to multiple victims who have told me of the abuse they have suffered while in the Jehovah's Witnesses organisation.

What most of them keep coming back to is something known as the "two witness rule".

It is a procedure set by the main governing body of the religion and means for any sin committed, there must be two witnesses to it in order for the elders of the congregation to take any action.

The problem with this is it can be rare to have witnesses in cases of abuse.

The victims I've spoken to said the organisation self-polices and teaches members to avoid interaction with outside authorities or to take another member of the religion to court.

To do so, they say, could lead to expulsion from the religion. (MA note on this...... thia means you could be raped, have DNA of the rapist but because no 3rd party saw it, the JW "commission" would say "it never happened" and still discourage you from going to the authorities. I will ba having me some fun next time they arrice at my front door...........).

................ back to me again. JWs are also encouraged not to go to University. Not to chase a career. These two things would get in the way of JW meetings and stop you going door to door. They are also not to smoke or take drugs. Drinking is OK but they may not get drunk. Adultery is the only cause for divorce acceptable to the JW. All other 100% legal divorces are not accepted by the JW. That means you cannot, as a JW, remarry. You may also not cohabit with a member of the opposite *** at any time, especially following a non-divorce.............. and having a wafty crank is also forbidden.

The figures I used above are relevant only to the Netherlands. The UK figures are estimated to be somewhat higher.

Isn't listing out the sins of Religious bodies a bit pointless unless we are going to really go for it and list them all? I think I'm closer to it than most and I could just run and run with it. I have no time for the JW's mainly because of their non-transfusion rule, but believe me they are League 1 compared to some. Problem is, list the 'wrong' religious bodies, someone sees it and the board gets closed down. Tricky isn't it?

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

In the past year or so there have been around 50 girls and women in Holland who have gone public (the estimate of cases in the past 20 years is well into the hundreds), gone to the police and there are now calls for a public inquiry. JWs are encouraged not to report abuse to the police but have it dealt with by their own "court". Going public would harm the JW cause (no **** sherlock).

I took this from a BBC web page..............I've spoken to multiple victims who have told me of the abuse they have suffered while in the Jehovah's Witnesses organisation.

What most of them keep coming back to is something known as the "two witness rule".

It is a procedure set by the main governing body of the religion and means for any sin committed, there must be two witnesses to it in order for the elders of the congregation to take any action.

The problem with this is it can be rare to have witnesses in cases of abuse.

The victims I've spoken to said the organisation self-polices and teaches members to avoid interaction with outside authorities or to take another member of the religion to court.

To do so, they say, could lead to expulsion from the religion. (MA note on this...... thia means you could be raped, have DNA of the rapist but because no 3rd party saw it, the JW "commission" would say "it never happened" and still discourage you from going to the authorities. I will ba having me some fun next time they arrice at my front door...........).

................ back to me again. JWs are also encouraged not to go to University. Not to chase a career. These two things would get in the way of JW meetings and stop you going door to door. They are also not to smoke or take drugs. Drinking is OK but they may not get drunk. Adultery is the only cause for divorce acceptable to the JW. All other 100% legal divorces are not accepted by the JW. That means you cannot, as a JW, remarry. You may also not cohabit with a member of the opposite *** at any time, especially following a non-divorce.............. and having a wafty crank is also forbidden.

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Blimey...I’m b******* then - well not literally - think I’ve broken all those rules. Wondered why we hadn’t had any visits since we moved.

I honestly always thought they were daft...but harmless. Not sure what Andy means about them being ‘League 1 compared to some’...thought we only had to worry about fundamentalist Catholics and Muslims.

If all peados are dead, the world would be a better place....

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Isn't listing out the sins of Religious bodies a bit pointless unless we are going to really go for it and list them all? I think I'm closer to it than most and I could just run and run with it. I have no time for the JW's mainly because of their non-transfusion rule, but believe me they are League 1 compared to some. Problem is, list the 'wrong' religious bodies, someone sees it and the board gets closed down. Tricky isn't it?

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Not necessarily Andy. In this particular case the OP was about a Catholic who was a kiddy fiddler. There was mention of closure..... I gave an example of a 2nd "caring, religious group" where kiddy fiddling appears as rife as in the Catholic Church. Had I gone on to mention all of the "offences" in all of the various control mechanisms aka religions I would still be typing this time next week.

We all know about the child circumcisions, both male and female, in Africa and elsewhere in the name of some "god" or other. The excesses of the Catholics, Muslims and more. It appears, and it was a correct guess on my part, that not many know about the rules JWs have to adhere to. Some of which are against the Law of the land.

.... plus, I have been accused of being way too verbose and long winded in the past (not on here) and I try to keep thngs succinct ;)