RMT not winning

the argument, imo. Still don't understand why they are arguing about wages when it seems to me they should be trying to find ways to boost passenger numbers.

I think public transport could be a big help in reducing the number of cars on the road but for some reason it appears that the convenience of the rail workers and the financial arrangements put in place by Westminster seem to be set in stone.

Working from home is a massive economic folly and will destroy jobs in the long term. We have had an unprecedented spell of money tree economics delivered by irresponsible Central bankers. You can see the chill winds blowing through crypto currencies and big falls in tech share prices.

I think the trades union movement is misguided in thinking that a change of government will bring a change in outcomes for their members.

There is a clear example in Scotland where you could not have a government that was more left leaning. It isn't likely that the total levels of government taxation will go up massively, imo, and there does not seem to be any difference between the economic pressures on Scots compared with the English, despite completely different politics.


Apologies for a non football topic but I find myself struggling to see past Rross Doom time, and can't think of anything else to say about it.

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Originally Posted by BCram

the argument, imo. Still don't understand why they are arguing about wages when it seems to me they should be trying to find ways to boost passenger numbers.

I think public transport could be a big help in reducing the number of cars on the road but for some reason it appears that the convenience of the rail workers and the financial arrangements put in place by Westminster seem to be set in stone.

Working from home is a massive economic folly and will destroy jobs in the long term. We have had an unprecedented spell of money tree economics delivered by irresponsible Central bankers. You can see the chill winds blowing through crypto currencies and big falls in tech share prices.

I think the trades union movement is misguided in thinking that a change of government will bring a change in outcomes for their members.

There is a clear example in Scotland where you could not have a government that was more left leaning. It isn't likely that the total levels of government taxation will go up massively, imo, and there does not seem to be any difference between the economic pressures on Scots compared with the English, despite completely different politics.


Apologies for a non football topic but I find myself struggling to see past Rross Doom time, and can't think of anything else to say about it.

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There is an interesting article in last Sunday’s Sunday Times newspaper about the cost of the taxpayers subsidy on each rail journey throughout the U.K.
The information quoted is from the regulator, The Office of Rail and Road (ORR) and the figures quoted are for the year to April 2022.
The average ticket cost during that period was £5.84 and the rail operators received government funding of £6.82 per ticket to make up the cost of running the service.
The taxpayer has been paying a subsidy of more than £15 towards every journey on Scotrail.
On the Caledonian Sleeper service which runs from London to Aberdeen, Fort William and Inverness the subsidy from the Government is £164 per person.
The rail union bosses never mention these large subsidies from the Government when they are clamouring for big wage increases for their members but offering nothing in return.

Put an end to this continual drip, drip, drip of rail strikes, shut the railways down completely and starve the *******s into a deal or get someone else to man the trains.

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Originally Posted by The AuldYin

Put an end to this continual drip, drip, drip of rail strikes, shut the railways down completely and starve the *******s into a deal or get someone else to man the trains.

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Stop sitting on the fence! Can't remember how lock outs worked long ago, but I think it ended when the unions created the Labour Party.

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Originally Posted by BCram

Stop sitting on the fence! Can't remember how lock outs worked long ago, but I think it ended when the unions created the Labour Party.

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Then let them form another one. Wait till banks are boarding up train drivers windows and we'll see how much of a people's hero Mick Lynch really is.

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Originally Posted by The AuldYin

Then let them form another one. Wait till banks are boarding up train drivers windows and we'll see how much of a people's hero Mick Lynch really is.

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Recipe for an accident that, a train with boarded up windows.

But

Lockdown.....print funny money......cheered on by unions, press and most of public sector......work from home.................................
inflation.....interest rate rises....££££ devalued.....AHH bugger worse off.......who wuda knew ☹️

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The AuldYin

Put an end to this continual drip, drip, drip of rail strikes, shut the railways down completely and starve the *******s into a deal or get someone else to man the trains.

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Have you ever stopped to think what would be the situation if shareholders weren’t being paid large amounts of cash from the profits ordinary workers make for these companies, wether it’s railway companies, Royal Mail, water companies or electricity/gas companies, tax payer is paying to keep there profits up, take away subsidies and see how many want to run trains, renationalise these industries and run for non profit and the country will be far better off

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdfc

Have you ever stopped to think what would be the situation if shareholders weren’t being paid large amounts of cash from the profits ordinary workers make for these companies, wether it’s railway companies, Royal Mail, water companies or electricity/gas companies, tax payer is paying to keep there profits up, take away subsidies and see how many want to run trains, renationalise these industries and run for non profit and the country will be far better off

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That is exactly the crux of the point I hoped would be made. Somehow subsidies have been turned into a very poor way to run any enterprise that should be available to everyone at a reasonable price for the less well off in society.
Maybe the unions have allowed themselves to be goaded into strike action. Don't forget that every pay rise has been agreed by the union leaders and recommended to their members. They created the economic blizzard that brought down the Callaghan Government and public opinion about unions, imo, has not changed much from that time. They look after their members and seem to care little about the effects their actions have on their companies or their companies customers.
I think we should discuss the ethics of subsidies.
I looked up the report that Islay quotes from. I think the total figures for income are
Govt subsidy £13.3bn
Ticket sales £5.8bn
Other sales £700m
Other income £1.5bn
Total income £21.3bn
Costs £22.8bn
You can see that you would need to increase passenger numbers by 230%, if you didn't increase prices, to replace the Govt subsidy with ticket sales. I think the Work from home approach has taken away a significant number of rail commuters a figure of a drop in numbers of 20% has been mentioned. The unions appear to me to think that boosting the number of passengers is just making their job harder. Perhaps they should think differently?

I have not been able to find the equivalent levels of subsidy in Germany or France for the same date but in 2014 the German subsidy was €17 bn, for 79.3bn passenger kilometers. France was €13.2bn, for 83.9bn passenger miles in 2013. Britain was €9.2bn, for 65.1bn passenger miles in 2016.
It looks like the subsidy in the UK has gone up to £13.3bn or €14.6 .
We don't appear to be paying out a subsidy that is well out of alignment with France and Germany. In fact it may be that our level of subsidy is not as great as it is in other countries but the perception is that our subsidies encourage inefficiency and poor performance.
Maybe this is something for us to consider?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdfc

Have you ever stopped to think what would be the situation if shareholders weren’t being paid large amounts of cash from the profits ordinary workers make for these companies, wether it’s railway companies, Royal Mail, water companies or electricity/gas companies, tax payer is paying to keep there profits up, take away subsidies and see how many want to run trains, renationalise these industries and run for non profit and the country will be far better off

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These are the same dividends which pay for people’s private pensions and workplace pensions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BCram

That is exactly the crux of the point I hoped would be made. Somehow subsidies have been turned into a very poor way to run any enterprise that should be available to everyone at a reasonable price for the less well off in society.
Maybe the unions have allowed themselves to be goaded into strike action. Don't forget that every pay rise has been agreed by the union leaders and recommended to their members. They created the economic blizzard that brought down the Callaghan Government and public opinion about unions, imo, has not changed much from that time. They look after their members and seem to care little about the effects their actions have on their companies or their companies customers.
I think we should discuss the ethics of subsidies.
I looked up the report that Islay quotes from. I think the total figures for income are
Govt subsidy £13.3bn
Ticket sales £5.8bn
Other sales £700m
Other income £1.5bn
Total income £21.3bn
Costs £22.8bn
You can see that you would need to increase passenger numbers by 230%, if you didn't increase prices, to replace the Govt subsidy with ticket sales. I think the Work from home approach has taken away a significant number of rail commuters a figure of a drop in numbers of 20% has been mentioned. The unions appear to me to think that boosting the number of passengers is just making their job harder. Perhaps they should think differently?

I have not been able to find the equivalent levels of subsidy in Germany or France for the same date but in 2014 the German subsidy was €17 bn, for 79.3bn passenger kilometers. France was €13.2bn, for 83.9bn passenger miles in 2013. Britain was €9.2bn, for 65.1bn passenger miles in 2016.
It looks like the subsidy in the UK has gone up to £13.3bn or €14.6 .
We don't appear to be paying out a subsidy that is well out of alignment with France and Germany. In fact it may be that our level of subsidy is not as great as it is in other countries but the perception is that our subsidies encourage inefficiency and poor performance.
Maybe this is something for us to consider?

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The level of Government subsidy for each journey made on Scotrail was over two times higher than subsidies for the rest of the rail companies apart from Transport for Wales and TransPennineExpress who also received a Government subsidy of more than £15 towards every journey.