O/T Theresa

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sidders

Hang on... if you can't organise a medic for a tickly cough, security to keep out a joker, adhesive that sticks letters to a board, what makes you so sure the Tories can do Brexit?

---

Today's events were partly misfortune and partly poor planning by the conference organisers, but essentially it doesn't change anything. Theresa May's credibility as party leader and Prime Minister was lost as soon as the General Election result was announced, and nothing that has happened or will happen in the future can change that. The Conservatives need to elect a new Leader as soon as possible, and that person needs to be a solid and consistent right-winger who can enter a direct ideological war with Jeremy Corbyn.

I think most on here on here are correct in their assessments of the weaknesses and liabilities of the various politicians on both sides, but that gives Labour the much bigger job. As the Tories go (slightly) right and Labour further left the divide gets bigger and it becomes more difficult to get voters to swap sides. Currently both sides are playing to their own ********* but without a significant shift to Labour they will remain in opposition for ever. Labour's (allegedly) brighter stars aren't helping, with Clive Lewis bashing those unions involved in the nuclear industry as being the 'voice of big business' for daring to (wait for it) ... look after the interests of their members. Does this man know what a union is? Gaff of the week goes to John McDonnell, for me Labour's biggest liability-in-waiting, - he is 'making plans for a run on the £'. Why not make plans for there NOT to be a run on the £, eh John? - like get a policy or 2 in place which won't screw over the economy. Just a thought.

JC has done a few clever things tho. Firstly, kept quiet while May dies on her a**e, but he can't do that forever. Also, a few clever policies emerging which might appeal to all ie Land Value Tax (but hardly radical and a Miliband policy). The rest is soundbites and platitudes - as ever. Time for JC to step up, not hide away, methinks. Nobody does unity better than the Tories when the chips are down and if (when) May is replaced the boat will have sailed. Interesting times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HaylePie

JC has done a few clever things tho. Firstly, kept quiet while May dies on her a**e, but he can't do that forever.

---

True, but the way she's performing a few more months might be enough!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elite_Pie

Theresa May and Boris Johnson are the two biggest assets the Labour Party have.

---

Yep, I reckon all the hard of thinking right wing arseholes are really secret Corbynites. That’s the only explanation for continuing to try to defend the shambles that is the current government and prime minister.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HaylePie

I think most on here on here are correct in their assessments of the weaknesses and liabilities of the various politicians on both sides, but that gives Labour the much bigger job. As the Tories go (slightly) right and Labour further left the divide gets bigger and it becomes more difficult to get voters to swap sides. Currently both sides are playing to their own ********* but without a significant shift to Labour they will remain in opposition for ever. Labour's (allegedly) brighter stars aren't helping, with Clive Lewis bashing those unions involved in the nuclear industry as being the 'voice of big business' for daring to (wait for it) ... look after the interests of their members. Does this man know what a union is? Gaff of the week goes to John McDonnell, for me Labour's biggest liability-in-waiting, - he is 'making plans for a run on the £'. Why not make plans for there NOT to be a run on the £, eh John? - like get a policy or 2 in place which won't screw over the economy. Just a thought.

JC has done a few clever things tho. Firstly, kept quiet while May dies on her a**e, but he can't do that forever. Also, a few clever policies emerging which might appeal to all ie Land Value Tax (but hardly radical and a Miliband policy). The rest is soundbites and platitudes - as ever. Time for JC to step up, not hide away, methinks. Nobody does unity better than the Tories when the chips are down and if (when) May is replaced the boat will have sailed. Interesting times.

---

I think a lot of Corbyn's "momentum" comes from the relative novelty in this day and age of having a political leader with a genuine ideology that has remained broadly (not wholly, but broadly) consistent through his career. People know where he's coming from, and those that agree with him are enthused by this sense of purpose.

The Conservatives need someone who fits the same bill from their perspective, because they really haven't had one (as leader) since Margaret Thatcher. If they can identify someone who can do this, then as I've said above, there can be a true ideological battle which will serve the purposes of democracy very well, engage the public and give them a real choice. Corbyn's surprisingly good performance at the last General Election undoubtedly owed much to the mediocrity of his opponent.

Pretty much since Thatcher left office, the public have been presented by both sides with a procession of soulless career politicians whose only unwavering commitment is to themselves. The worst examples were of course Blair and Cameron, who passionately believed in, and parroted, whatever the most recent opinion poll told them the public was thinking. These types of politicians did horrendous damage to our democracy, not least because a generation of young aspiring politicians have grown up thinking this is the formula for success.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elite_Pie

You might be right, but you don't seem to have much of a grasp on gambling. Of course you bet when you think your chances are good, but as long as you win more than you lose the losing bets aren't a problem. As I said previously, the £20 I might lose on this one will be outweighed by the greater good I think May's continued leadership will give.



Really? Thanks for clearing that one up!



Just as well. I could never have sold your products with any confidence.

---

1. I thought a 'Pony' was £25 not £20. I believe the bet was for a 'Pony' - to cite my words.

2. To simplify then: There will be no leadership contest and the longer she's there, the stronger she'll get.

3. Actually "my" product is now the undisputed WORLD leader, manufactured and sold worldwide with the group having a multi million
pound turnover. But I agree with you, as I said, you have no knowledge of sales or the positive attitude to make things happen.
Actually the equation is very simple ........... Sales + Production = Profit ......... No Sales + No Production = Bankruptcy. Never ever
knock a salesman EP because inadvertently he's the one paying your wages. A typical local example of a risk taker and
entrepreneur would be our own club owner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elite_Pie

You don't seem to understand, I'm genuinely hoping I lose this bet, the longer Theresa May stays 'leading' the Tories the better as far as I'm concerned. Today's speech summed her term up perfectly - utterly shambolic! When you consider her most likely replacement is the walking disaster Boris Johnson, this can only be good for Labour.

Corbyn just needs to keep his gob shut and leave the Tories to oversee our 'glorious Brexit'!!!!!

---

So you accept that you regularly are on the losing side....because your counter-argument is shambolic IMO......But your fallback position is that somehow you will eventually be proved right, if given enough time?

The same argument that a broken clock will eventually be proved correct twice every 24 hours?

Have you placed your normal bet for Notts to be relegated?......obviously you don't want Notts to fail?......but if they do....you get a free Season Ticket.

You are a strange individual at times....you say one thing, but hedge your bets in case you're wrong......which normally you are BTW.....that fence that you're sitting on, must really be biting into your posterior by now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BigFatPie

Yep, I reckon all the hard of thinking right wing arseholes are really secret Corbynites. That’s the only explanation for continuing to try to defend the shambles that is the current government and prime minister.

---

There's a lot of scoffing and triumphalism from the left-wing types on TV and social media tonight, which is actually a good thing for the Conservatives, because that type of politics doesn't sit well with the public in the long run. It won't save Theresa May (and nor should it), but it suggests the mood amongst Labourites is not dissimilar to the one of arrogance and over-confidence seen at the famous Sheffield rally in 1992, which ultimately wrecked their chances at that election.

I don't think Corbyn's a bad guy if I'm honest, and I have fair respect for him as a person even though I don't share his political views, but there's something about a number of his followers that's really vitriolic and unpleasant. They need to be given enough rope to hang themselves.

Summary - Some superb arguments on here from both sides....not a lot of "slagging people off" for a change.

Labour's position is "we are going to borrow a ****-load of money from someone....and build a Marxist/Socialist state where everything is free and nobody bothers to create anything".....the Tory position is "We've got a dodgy leader....but not as dodgy as yours"

Labour remove anyone from their front benches that dares to rock the boat......Tories allow a wannabee comedian to hand over a fake P45

TM has a bad cough....and the Left delight in the fact that no syrup was forthcoming

Wow....****ing Wow.....roll on FGR so we can all agree that 4-2 was a fair result

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tarquinbeech

So you accept that you regularly are on the losing side....because your counter-argument is shambolic IMO......But your fallback position is that somehow you will eventually be proved right, if given enough time?

---

I would say most of my bets are losing ones, but that doesn't stop the winning ones making an overall profit. Value is the key.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tarquinbeech

Have you placed your normal bet for Notts to be relegated?

---

Yes. Thankfully, that should be a loser.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tarquinbeech

You are a strange individual at times....you say one thing, but hedge your bets in case you're wrong......which normally you are BTW.....that fence that you're sitting on, must really be biting into your posterior by now.

---

I have two types of bets - serious ones which I think offer value for money, and 'consolation' bets which are designed to dull the pain a bit if the worst happens. Here's a recent example:

EVENT SELECTION PRICE E/W TERMS RESULT STATUS
Nottingham Forest v Sheffield United ENG League Championship Match Betting - 90 Mins Nottingham Forest 13/8 Win only Won Settled
Mansfield Town v Notts County ENG League Two Match Betting - 90 Mins Mansfield Town 5/4 Win only Won Settled
Bet ID: ***96160100 20:20 Bet Type: Double Stake: £ 5.00

That was a fiver double on the 'worst case scenario' of Notts losing and Forest winning at the weekend. Sadly it was a winner, even though I would much rather have lost the fiver than suffer the pain I did at Field Mill. It's really just a little mind game I play with myself and I really don't care what you or anyone else thinks about it. I know why I do it and that's all that matters. Regarding sitting on the fence, you are talking out of your arse. My opinions are very clear and specific, it's not my problem if you are incapable of understanding them.