OT Why has the Labour party sold its soul?

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Originally Posted by Lolmorgan

Just popped on,just to let you know that the Football seasons started.

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But not at the NYS

Back to OP.....Why have the tories cut funds to essential social services across the board - they literally have blood on their hands as MANY people have died due to their direct policies.

Let's talk about how many people have died under the rule of these tory slime balls.

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Originally Posted by EasyAndEarly

Back to OP.....Why have the tories cut funds to essential social services across the board - they literally have blood on their hands as MANY people have died due to their direct policies.

Let's talk about how many people have died under the rule of these tory slime balls.

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You sound like John McDonnell.

Max Weber-influenced consequentialists are dangerous as ****.

When people talk of "antisemitic" bull as though it's actually real then dismissive of a plethora of actual fatalities caused by this government then that's as dangerous as ****.

As for "consequentialists"....

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Originally Posted by BigLadonOS

No. I am saying that May took the action that made what the leave campaign said as null and void by setting in motion article 50 and therefore making it impossible for them to do what it said they would do.

Trying to negotiate a deal before the law to leave was put in to action is no longer relevant because May has already pit it in to law.

Now go away and try to come up with something that actually backs up your case instead of the crap that you come out with post after post.

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May was democratically elected by us all (not that I voted for her) with a clear mandate to negotiate the deal with the EU that we (not me, but we) voted for in the referendum. She did that, and at the moment that deal hasn't passed through our elected reps. If Johnson negotiates an amended deal, that gets around the backstop and gets through parliament, I'll accept it. If not, then there is no mandate for anything else, Remain or No Deal. Back to the start. The vote leave promise was very specific, if that can't be delivered, mainly through the actions of your extremist reps that won't compromise, then so be it. You'll get nowt, and it will be very well deserved I must say!

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Originally Posted by ragingpup

May was democratically elected by us all (not that I voted for her) with a clear mandate to negotiate the deal with the EU that we (not me, but we) voted for in the referendum. She did that, and at the moment that deal hasn't passed through our elected reps. If Johnson negotiates an amended deal, that gets around the backstop and gets through parliament, I'll accept it. If not, then there is no mandate for anything else, Remain or No Deal. Back to the start. The vote leave promise was very specific, if that can't be delivered, mainly through the actions of your extremist reps that won't compromise, then so be it. You'll get nowt, and it will be very well deserved I must say!

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So what you are saying is that if we cannot get a deal we call the whole thing off?

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Originally Posted by BigLadonOS

So what you are saying is that if we cannot get a deal we call the whole thing off?

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Nope. I think the fairest thing is, as I've said many times, to put a vote to the public on May's deal v No deal. If that can't be agreed, we need to start again on leaving but on clearer grounds as in the only way we can leave is with no deal on wto terms v remain as referendum. Sorry, it may take time, but whatever we choose needs a clear public mandate on the full outcome, not a distorted outcome stolen from promises made by another organisation (vote leave)

Because Labour MP's used to come from Trade Unions, now they are career-chasing Oxbridge types?

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Originally Posted by ragingpup

Nope. I think the fairest thing is, as I've said many times, to put a vote to the public on May's deal v No deal. If that can't be agreed, we need to start again on leaving but on clearer grounds as in the only way we can leave is with no deal on wto terms v remain as referendum. Sorry, it may take time, but whatever we choose needs a clear public mandate on the full outcome, not a distorted outcome stolen from promises made by another organisation (vote leave)

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I suggest you watch this video and listen to every word that is said. This is a speech to the people of the United Kingdom and tells everyone what they will be voting for.

You say there is no mandate but I say there is. Oh, and do not go on about that this was before any canvasing started because this is exactly when it started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVjhs3gVtJE

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Originally Posted by BigLadonOS

I suggest you watch this video and listen to every word that is said. This is a speech to the people of the United Kingdom and tells everyone what they will be voting for.

You say there is no mandate but I say there is. Oh, and do not go on about that this was before any canvasing started because this is exactly when it started.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVjhs3gVtJE

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You've posted this before. It's from before Cameron started his own EU negotiations, when he was making his own threats to the EI in the hope of getting concessions. This was well before he triggered the referendum and well before the Leave EU led their campaign promising:

"Taking back control is a careful change, not a sudden stop - we will negotiate the terms of a new deal before we start any legal process to leave"

This was the promise made by the campaign leading the persuasion for people to leave the UK during the referendum. It was from their blinking manifesto. How much clearer does it need to be!:

http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net...pdf?1463496002