O/T Tommy Robinson Speaks About Manchester Terror Attack

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Originally Posted by rolymiller

I'll second that MMM great post from raging pup put in a calm way from someone who has obviously directly experienced multi culturism so he knows what he is talking about. Great fire, how can you say integration wont work? what is your evidence? You just pluck your views from the air methinks. Even if you sincerely believe that multiculturism doesnt work surely it makes sense to try to make it work.

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Multiculturalism hasn't failed, Islam has failed. There's a big difference.

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Originally Posted by Neville_Davitt

Tommy Robinson's criminal convictions are a matter of record Ellis. But keep believing that there's a big leftist and/or state conspiracy against him and the EDL if it makes you feel better.

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They are a matter of record, but if you read what I wrote, you will clearly see that things are not always what they seem. You failed to address any of my points, other than that. But there have been several things happened that are CLEARLY harassment and victimisation of Tommy. Maybe you are far too narrow minded to even admit that to yourself though.

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Originally Posted by ragingpup

I think its fair to see that the school has been on a fair old journey, but as the ofsted report clearly says, the previous headmaster and the lack of teaching skills was the problem. It's exactly the same report as the college I recently started work; underskilled teachers who needed support and some lazy ones who needed shipping out. We moved from a 3 to a 2 in 12 months. The current head of this school will do the same, as Ofsted indicate in their report. When she gets that, can we then, with equal idiocy, call the 'experiment' a success?

If Ofsted is the barometer of multi cultural school success, how about my two nearest local schools? My daughter goes to Oakdale School, South Woodford with this ofsted profile: "The proportion of pupils from minority ethnic groups is above the national average. The largest single group of pupils is of White British heritage, with other sizeable groups having Other White, Pakistani, African, Caribbean or Mixed heritages. The proportion of pupils speaking English as an additional language is also above the national average".
Ofsted Grade: Good

Or our other local one has "The proportion of pupils from minority ethnic groups is much higher than average and has increased rapidly in the last three years. Tthe percentage of children with English as an additional language is also above average and is increasing"
Ofsted grade: Outstanding. http://www.nightingale.redbridge.sch...ruary_2010.pdf

So how do these schools which do naturally what the Oldham school are attempting to do manage to deliver excellent education to students from mixed cultures??


So it seems that my ideas for moving away from faith schools and allowing parents to keep their cultures separate is worth at least engaging with. If you do not feel it would work, or isn't a good idea to move in this direction, then please at least give a coherent reason as it looks, from out here, that you simply don't want to go in this direction. If that's the case, why not?


And can I ask you, and Mr Fire, or anyone that has contributed to this thread as they share an interest in moving towards a world where people don't feel the need to carry out atrocities justified by religious bigotry, if you had a school such as either of the two ofsted have profiled above with much higher than average ethnic diversity but outstanding/good standards - would you send your children there??

If not, why?

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I will answer your question. I choose the schools for my children purely on their Ofsted report and reputation. I wouldn't care how ethnically diverse they were or weren't, all I have EVER cared about is that my children get the best education available to them as possible.

Goodness me this thread has moved on quite a bit since I last looked in on here. :O

Robinson, and Golding & Fransen who run Britain first might all have a shady past, and some of them did originally come from the B*np. But when I listen to them these days they do at least come across as people who care about what is happening, and they show much more interest than the politicians do put it that way.
Yes I know it might sound naive to think about them like that, but I honestly cant see anybody else offering any other soultion for those of us who have had enough.

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Originally Posted by Ellis_D

I agree with you 100% regarding forced mixing in schools. We DO need to do everything we can to integrate everyone. I do, sadly fear, that it might not work with a huge amount of Muslims, but we all know that there are A LOT of Muslims who HAVE managed to integrate into society. As a long term plan, this would be a positive step. Faith schools of all religions should be banned. The local councils already decide who goes to what school, so it would be down to them to make sure children from all walks of life are mixed. I also strongly believe that the government should be teaching evolution in school as fact and religion as man made rubbish. Obviously that would be met with polite resistance from the Christian community and from fierce, violent resistance from some members of the Islamic community. So we are probably a long way off from that yet..........

So as a long term strategy, of course, children are the future, we should start by banning faith schools, mixing races and religions in schools and therefore encouraging integration..... But will our government do it? They wouldn't dare. We can but hope.

Even so, that long term plan is sound. We still have the problem, though, of 4000 Muslims being suspected of being potential terrorists, being watched. We also have the problem that 50,000 Muslims downloaded the ISIS terror manual......

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At last some positive, sensible thinking Ellis, i totally agree with you about faith schools, also about being a secular society, but we should teach about religion, all religion, and let the children make their own minds up, we should be shouting from the rooftops how great our country is, because the truth is, there isn't many better.

As for the 4000 you keep mentioning, do you not think that these are being monitored, that our security is actually gaining good information from them and their cohorts, who they're talking to, who they're interacting with? I'd like to think they are.
As for those 50,000 who downloaded stuff, wrong, of course, but there's millions of British people downloading all sorts of crap that isn't ever acted out

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Originally Posted by millmoormagic

You often talk of people being brainwashed, and the irony is you're one of the most brainwashed, don't you worry, you're quite correct, you're not alone, there's many like you, all been fed anti this and anti that for years and years, i dare bet you cheered when the first bombs hit Bhagdad, cheered and clapped our armed forces for their bravery-lions led by donkeys...

Back to your vote, you see, you're basing your 80-90% on your group, your inner circle, all surfing the same websites, all talking the same bull, all believing their own crap, that's the truth.

Now, should we deport all foreigners on any suspect list....YES, OF COURSE WE SHOULD, NO BRAINER..

Should we imprison(intern) British ones who, let's face it, are innocent at this point...we've tried that, remember Northern Ireland, the IRA, internment galvanised them, gave their whole community more focus to fight us in whatever way they could....guess what process stopped the killing? mediation and negotiation...

If we do things your way Ellis, then you really can wave goodbye to peace.

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You have me all wrong, fella. Well, at least partially wrong anyway. You have your stereotypes about me that are absolutely false. I am sure you feel I have stereotypes about you that are absolutely false too.

Hand on heart, I have NEVER cheered in my life when a bomb has been dropped on anywhere. I am always conscious of the innocent people that will be killed. I always also put myself in the shoes of the parents of a child killed by a bomb and how I would feel. You might not believe it, but I'm a caring person and I hate the thought of children anywhere suffering. Unfortunately, in war, I understand that bombs have to be dropped, innocents have to die, but I am never comfortable with it.

As for my vote, could do a poll on here. Rotherham is a left wing area that ALWAYS votes for Labour. Yet I bet the poll would still come out overwhelmingly in favour of A. And that's because, it's not an idea that's about right or left wing, it's about simple common sense. You saw a guy earlier on in the thread who has voted Labour all his life and yet he agrees with me, he is sick of it. So are most people. If they had a simple option to prevent things where no-one dies, I'm sure they would take it.

I'm glad you at least agree on the deporting foreigners on the terror suspect list, it is just simple common sense.

Now, finally, I really don't want to patronise you, but I know that you are more intelligent and more switched on than to genuinely compare the two, the situation with the IRA and ISIS.

The IRA had clear goals - they wanted a united Ireland and no British influence. Unfortunately for them, the Northern Irish people, by and large, wished to remain part of the United Kingdom. But we could at least negotiate with the IRA, it was clear they would get nowhere, a stalemate, too many deaths on each side. And despite apparently being Catholics who believed in Heaven and and a better afterlife, there weren't too many of them who actually wanted to die. Not many suicide missions.

ISIS, and indeed, every other Islamic terror organisation are completely different. They all devoutly believe in a better afterlife, so they don't mind suicide missions. ISIS don't just want western troops to leave their land. If only it were that simple. They want death to every infidel. Even death to every Muslim who doesn't follow the same kind of Islam as them, or who won't conform to their beliefs. Because they are so certain they are right and have the will of Allah, there can be no negotiating with ISIS. There can be no peace talks. They want world domination; you bow down and submit, convert to Islam, or you fall at the sword of Islam. It's naive to even believe that negotiating with ISIS could ever bring peace talks. There is only one thing they understand: violence. So we either give up and let them win, or we meet them head on and fight.

Now, to go over old ground again, would I want to seriously deport EVERY MUslim. NO. But I have said that would be the best way to ensure we are safe, not something that we could easily do, or would want to do. I am talking if we could wave a magic wand and every Muslim living here was moved to Muslim countries, the country would be safe from Islamic terrorism. Again, simple maths. No Muslims = no Islamic extremism.

But yes, there are many who have integrated into our society. Many who work hard, pay their taxes, abide by our laws. Many who do key jobs that we need doing, the NHS being the most obvious one.

Strictly speaking, I would expect Indian takeaways to be run by Indians, so Sikhs or Hindus. However, someone pointed out most are Pakistani Muslims in Rotherham. Well I don't live in a racially diverse area, so they might be Indians here. Either way, I don't care. It's by far my favourite food and I've got a madras on the way right now. So I don't want them fellas who are knocking up my tea to have to leave the country!

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Originally Posted by millmoormagic

At last some positive, sensible thinking Ellis, i totally agree with you about faith schools, also about being a secular society, but we should teach about religion, all religion, and let the children make their own minds up, we should be shouting from the rooftops how great our country is, because the truth is, there isn't many better.

As for the 4000 you keep mentioning, do you not think that these are being monitored, that our security is actually gaining good information from them and their cohorts, who they're talking to, who they're interacting with? I'd like to think they are.
As for those 50,000 who downloaded stuff, wrong, of course, but there's millions of British people downloading all sorts of crap that isn't ever acted out

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I worry that not enough are being monitored and that we don't have enough resources to properly monitor them all. The figure might not be as high as 50,000 who would actually carry out the terror attacks, but it would suggest it's a damn sight higher than 4,000. To even want to download such a manual is worrying enough.

Plus the billions of pounds we are wasting every year monitoring these people could be put to much better use if we just shipped a lot of them out. I suppose then the argument would be, the British ones would still cost us money being inside. To which I have two answers. 1. Yes it would, but being locked up in jail prevents them killing anyone, which should always be the main aim, and 2. I have always said that prisons should be much stricter and harsher anyway, we can start by putting EVERY prisoner to work with hard, physical labour. Make them hate it so much they don't want to ever go back.

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Originally Posted by Ellis_D

You have me all wrong, fella. Well, at least partially wrong anyway. You have your stereotypes about me that are absolutely false. I am sure you feel I have stereotypes about you that are absolutely false too.

Hand on heart, I have NEVER cheered in my life when a bomb has been dropped on anywhere. I am always conscious of the innocent people that will be killed. I always also put myself in the shoes of the parents of a child killed by a bomb and how I would feel. You might not believe it, but I'm a caring person and I hate the thought of children anywhere suffering. Unfortunately, in war, I understand that bombs have to be dropped, innocents have to die, but I am never comfortable with it.

As for my vote, could do a poll on here. Rotherham is a left wing area that ALWAYS votes for Labour. Yet I bet the poll would still come out overwhelmingly in favour of A. And that's because, it's not an idea that's about right or left wing, it's about simple common sense. You saw a guy earlier on in the thread who has voted Labour all his life and yet he agrees with me, he is sick of it. So are most people. If they had a simple option to prevent things where no-one dies, I'm sure they would take it.

I'm glad you at least agree on the deporting foreigners on the terror suspect list, it is just simple common sense.

Now, finally, I really don't want to patronise you, but I know that you are more intelligent and more switched on than to genuinely compare the two, the situation with the IRA and ISIS.

The IRA had clear goals - they wanted a united Ireland and no British influence. Unfortunately for them, the Northern Irish people, by and large, wished to remain part of the United Kingdom. But we could at least negotiate with the IRA, it was clear they would get nowhere, a stalemate, too many deaths on each side. And despite apparently being Catholics who believed in Heaven and and a better afterlife, there weren't too many of them who actually wanted to die. Not many suicide missions.

ISIS, and indeed, every other Islamic terror organisation are completely different. They all devoutly believe in a better afterlife, so they don't mind suicide missions. ISIS don't just want western troops to leave their land. If only it were that simple. They want death to every infidel. Even death to every Muslim who doesn't follow the same kind of Islam as them, or who won't conform to their beliefs. Because they are so certain they are right and have the will of Allah, there can be no negotiating with ISIS. There can be no peace talks. They want world domination; you bow down and submit, convert to Islam, or you fall at the sword of Islam. It's naive to even believe that negotiating with ISIS could ever bring peace talks. There is only one thing they understand: violence. So we either give up and let them win, or we meet them head on and fight.

Now, to go over old ground again, would I want to seriously deport EVERY MUslim. NO. But I have said that would be the best way to ensure we are safe, not something that we could easily do, or would want to do. I am talking if we could wave a magic wand and every Muslim living here was moved to Muslim countries, the country would be safe from Islamic terrorism. Again, simple maths. No Muslims = no Islamic extremism.

But yes, there are many who have integrated into our society. Many who work hard, pay their taxes, abide by our laws. Many who do key jobs that we nee doing, the NHS being the most obvious one.

Strictly speaking, I would expect Indian takeaways to be run by Indians, so Sikhs or Hindus. However, someone pointed out most are Pakistani Muslims in Rotherham. Well I don't live in a racially diverse area, so they might be Indians here. Either way, I don't care. It's by far my favourite food and I've got a madras on the way right now. So I don't want them fellas who are knocking up my tea to have to leave the country!

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This is the thing, you continue to talk of islamic domination etc etc, and don't get me wrong, we're both athiests, and i share your dislike of any religion, i also have some sympathy with your views about islamic fundamentalism, i facking hate em, but there is no magic wand, what i do now, is that ostracising that community further will only make things worse. To clarify what i think, if you could garauntee the guilt of any of these 4000 i'd gladly pull the trigger myself, but that's the point, you cannot, and in a civilised society we have to be better than murdering people, because they don't agree with us.

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Originally Posted by Ellis_D

I worry that not enough are being monitored and that we don't have enough resources to properly monitor them all. The figure might not be as high as 50,000 who would actually carry out the terror attacks, but it would suggest it's a damn sight higher than 4,000. To even want to download such a manual is worrying enough.

Plus the billions of pounds we are wasting every year monitoring these people could be put to much better use if we just shipped a lot of them out. I suppose then the argument would be, the British ones would still cost us money being inside. To which I have two answers. 1. Yes it would, but being locked up in jail prevents them killing anyone, which should always be the main aim, and 2. I have always said that prisons should be much stricter and harsher anyway, we can start by putting EVERY prisoner to work with hard, physical labour. Make them hate it so much they don't want to ever go back.

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We certainly don't have enough resources, and this government is reducing those more as we speak, the only reason troops are on the streets right now is because of those cuts....shameful from a party purporting to be the party of stability. The 50,000 you cannot monitor, realistically, can we.
Another thing your boy tommy spoke of, which agree with by the way, was his mentioning of these radicals 'running' particular wings in prisons etc, another reason to chuck the gov't out, the've massively cut the budget for prisons, prison officers now have much less power to do their job, because there's less of them, they cannot control adequately many wings because of that.
You see, there's a pattern emerging, a pattern where the gov't is absolutely shatting on it's own people.
As for the hard labour stuff, yep, i'm in.

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Originally Posted by Ellis_D

Strictly speaking, I would expect Indian takeaways to be run by Indians, so Sikhs or Hindus. However, someone pointed out most are Pakistani Muslims in Rotherham. Well I don't live in a racially diverse area, so they might be Indians here. Either way, I don't care. It's by far my favourite food and I've got a madras on the way right now. So I don't want them fellas who are knocking up my tea to have to leave the country!

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Most Indian takeaways in this country are run by Bangladeshis and always have been, Pakistanis run second most and actual Indians in distant third place.

You should learn to do your own curries Ellis, I can't knock up ones as good as they make at home but can beat most restaurants and takeaways, plus I know what's going in them.