Leeds United - v - Arsenal ***Matchday Thread***

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Originally Posted by Ozwhites

This thread has evolved into the usual. Be nice for differing opinions to be discussed for a change...instead of ridiculed back and forward. Exactly why my contributions are very limited these days. Just ain't worth the heartache I'm afraid folks. :s

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I'm always nice to you Oz. O:)

Oz - I'll admit to a slight bias towards Leeds regular stadiums fans opinions and most are happy.Other forums I'm involved with generally are happy with our progress too and I'm very happy albeit I've only seen highlights of games.
When you've spent nearly £1000 for season tickets plus extra on travel etc throughout a season then maybe our match-day 'fan hardcore' perspective does differ slightly to yours,particularly on the team performances - the all for one & one for all stance really does flow through my blood.

1.One positive attribute about MB and our playing style is that it attracts 'young fans',new fans and new global TV fans - great for the club and great for football.

2.At Arsenal in the Cup last season Arteta was yelling at the fans in the main-stand behind him to get behind his team even 'tho they were paying £59 to watch his shi*te perform badly against us.
No wonder clubs & global TV want Leeds in PL grounds as we are 'atmosphere' on and off the pitch and thats a short commodity nowadays that folks are still willing to pay for and to experience and of cause attracts large pay to view via global TV audiences.

3.The U.K. Football Supporters Association stats say the average age of match-going supporters is now 50 years old in PL.So continuing the Leeds & Arsenal theme the average season ticket holder is in their fifties and with the best will in the world a fifty year old is not going to make the same amount of noise and contribution to the stadia atmosphere as someone in their early twenties plus not many younger ones can afford a Leeds/Arsenal season ticket nowadays.
Well, at Leeds plenty of 50 year olds do stand up and sing and youngsters too - both splash out a shed full of cash doing so both home & away and it's great that PL 'away days' are now capped at £30 a ticket for us when we eventually get back into use 'em and of course folks like you can tune in to watch us too - so again great for the club.

4.In Leeds the kids are again wearing Leeds shirts,the city is again proud of its team and murals are everywhere keeping folks smiling in these Covid times and the media laud us up weekly.
Why Oz ?

5.So what is there not to like Oz after only 9 PL games played against decent opposition in our season back ?
Constructive criticism yes but moaning no and as for having a pop at MB 'your having a laugh' particularly with this season's circumstances,IMO.
Enjoy it while it lasts - The Revie,Wilko,OLeary years don't come along often and neither do they last long and in between we've had our moments too but after only "NINE PL games" with everybody at the club new to the scenario does not warrant 'some' of the comments posted on here,IMO.
Maybe that is why this Forum does not attract younger members and has lost so many of who I know well.

MOT

(Lights blue touch paper & stands back) - feel free to reply Oz. :heart:

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Originally Posted by MrsORichSenior

I'm always nice to you Oz. O:)

Oz - I'll admit to a slight bias towards Leeds regular stadiums fans opinions and most are happy.Other forums I'm involved with generally are happy with our progress too and I'm very happy albeit I've only seen highlights of games.
When you've spent nearly £1000 for season tickets plus extra on travel etc throughout a season then maybe our match-day 'fan hardcore' perspective does differ slightly to yours,particularly on the team performances - the all for one & one for all stance really does flow through my blood.

1.One positive attribute about MB and our playing style is that it attracts 'young fans',new fans and new global TV fans - great for the club and great for football.

2.At Arsenal in the Cup last season Arteta was yelling at the fans in the main-stand behind him to get behind his team even 'tho they were paying £59 to watch his shi*te perform badly against us.
No wonder clubs & global TV want Leeds in PL grounds as we are 'atmosphere' on and off the pitch and thats a short commodity nowadays that folks are still willing to pay for and to experience and of cause attracts large pay to view via global TV audiences.

3.The U.K. Football Supporters Association stats say the average age of match-going supporters is now 50 years old in PL.So continuing the Leeds & Arsenal theme the average season ticket holder is in their fifties and with the best will in the world a fifty year old is not going to make the same amount of noise and contribution to the stadia atmosphere as someone in their early twenties plus not many younger ones can afford a Leeds/Arsenal season ticket nowadays.
Well, at Leeds plenty of 50 year olds do stand up and sing and youngsters too - both splash out a shed full of cash doing so both home & away and it's great that PL 'away days' are now capped at £30 a ticket for us when we eventually get back into use 'em and of course folks like you can tune in to watch us too - so again great for the club.

4.In Leeds the kids are again wearing Leeds shirts,the city is again proud of its team and murals are everywhere keeping folks smiling in these Covid times and the media laud us up weekly.
Why Oz ?

5.So what is there not to like Oz after only 9 PL games played against decent opposition in our season back ?
Constructive criticism yes but moaning no and as for having a pop at MB 'your having a laugh' particularly with this season's circumstances,IMO.
Enjoy it while it lasts - The Revie,Wilko,OLeary years don't come along often and neither do they last long and in between we've had our moments too but after only "NINE PL games" with everybody at the club new to the scenario does not warrant 'some' of the comments posted on here,IMO.
Maybe that is why this Forum does not attract younger members and has lost so many of who I know well.

MOT

(Lights blue touch paper & stands back) - feel free to reply Oz. :heart:

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I think you may be responding to the wrong Oz as well?? XD Ozleeds was putting the down spin on our performances....not I. :o

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Originally Posted by Ozwhites

I think you may be responding to the wrong Oz as well?? XD Ozleeds was putting the down spin on our performances....not I. :o

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Lier lol

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Originally Posted by Ozwhites

Think you might have the wrong Oz there....:?

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Through me under the bus will you lol

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Originally Posted by klix

There are plenty of coaches or managers out there who are doing a bloody good job
Ralph at Soton
NES at Wolves
Moyes at West Ham
Mourinho at Spurs may get a trophy
Lampard is doing well at Chelsea
Just a couple to mention
MB is doing his job that's all nothing else
Gets paid well had backing to get us up
Wolves leicester palace zero points is not world class performance from any manager
The press and Sky just get carried away in my view with MB hanging on a few words from pep and poch
Granted we play good football some say basketball football
But only my view you can pick flaws in his approach and buying policy
Everyone has a view
Mine is we should not go down
If we cannot finish above fulham WBA sheff utd Burnley newcastle We will be deserved relegation fodder

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the clubs you mention have the benefit of squads with a number of years already in the PL building each season on PL budgets...Wolves, the newer of those mentioned have spent vast fortunes on their squad too. And possess the only manager I would even consider swapping with, but I much prefer MB already a Leeds icon.
Several of the current squad were incapable of putting in consistent Championship performances and now being competitive in the top flight with a style if football that has won many admirers. The squad is still very much a work in progress. They should all be judged at the end of this and more so at the end of next season.

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Originally Posted by WTF11

He said 3 - 4 points, not top. As with the likes of HO and his "you expect us to tear up the Prem" comment, and Mrs O with her comment about Histon, you exaggerate in order to give those who would disagree with the "sun shines out of MBs arse" mindset a kicking.

No, none of us expected us to be top, or tear up anything (You were somewhat aggrieved when I said we might not survive in a pre-season post, remember?). Scoring at the rate of 2 goals in four matches, (against less than stellar opposition), and very few in total (14 since seasons start), is inadequate, and no matter how beautiful our outfield play is, that must change or quite soon that faith amongst the players that Mrs O refers to will start to crumble.

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If the scandalous VAR decisions had gone our way, we may already have those extra 3-4 points.. that after 9 games you are judging the club on.

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Originally Posted by whitestomper45

the clubs you mention have the benefit of squads with a number of years already in the PL building each season on PL budgets...Wolves, the newer of those mentioned have spent vast fortunes on their squad too. And possess the only manager I would even consider swapping with, but I much prefer MB already a Leeds icon.
Several of the current squad were incapable of putting in consistent Championship performances and now being competitive in the top flight with a style if football that has won many admirers. The squad is still very much a work in progress. They should all be judged at the end of this and more so at the end of next season.

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Warnock took cardiff up from 17th to the prem with a bunch of camels

Wilder has done the same

NES took wolves up very quickly
They had zero money at the time
All I'm saying is the Bielsa over the top comments are a bit to much

How Bielsa is a icon is beyond belief, that's only in my eyes

If he stays a couple of years and wins something with us yes a icon status for some I could live with

He had done his job, remember he got out thought by Lampard against Derby. 2 0 up on aggregate and then a total cock up

Kevin Keegan is a god at newcastle because of his style at the time why I dont know he won zero

We all have a view that's life I just dont get the over the top comments surrounding MB
Yes he has won admirers that is a fact, but also some do ask, in his years and years of management what has he won.

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Originally Posted by MrsORichSenior

I'm always nice to you Oz. O:)

Oz - I'll admit to a slight bias towards Leeds regular stadiums fans opinions and most are happy.Other forums I'm involved with generally are happy with our progress too and I'm very happy albeit I've only seen highlights of games.
When you've spent nearly £1000 for season tickets plus extra on travel etc throughout a season then maybe our match-day 'fan hardcore' perspective does differ slightly to yours,particularly on the team performances - the all for one & one for all stance really does flow through my blood.

1.One positive attribute about MB and our playing style is that it attracts 'young fans',new fans and new global TV fans - great for the club and great for football.

2.At Arsenal in the Cup last season Arteta was yelling at the fans in the main-stand behind him to get behind his team even 'tho they were paying £59 to watch his shi*te perform badly against us.
No wonder clubs & global TV want Leeds in PL grounds as we are 'atmosphere' on and off the pitch and thats a short commodity nowadays that folks are still willing to pay for and to experience and of cause attracts large pay to view via global TV audiences.

3.The U.K. Football Supporters Association stats say the average age of match-going supporters is now 50 years old in PL.So continuing the Leeds & Arsenal theme the average season ticket holder is in their fifties and with the best will in the world a fifty year old is not going to make the same amount of noise and contribution to the stadia atmosphere as someone in their early twenties plus not many younger ones can afford a Leeds/Arsenal season ticket nowadays.
Well, at Leeds plenty of 50 year olds do stand up and sing and youngsters too - both splash out a shed full of cash doing so both home & away and it's great that PL 'away days' are now capped at £30 a ticket for us when we eventually get back into use 'em and of course folks like you can tune in to watch us too - so again great for the club.

4.In Leeds the kids are again wearing Leeds shirts,the city is again proud of its team and murals are everywhere keeping folks smiling in these Covid times and the media laud us up weekly.
Why Oz ?

5.So what is there not to like Oz after only 9 PL games played against decent opposition in our season back ?
Constructive criticism yes but moaning no and as for having a pop at MB 'your having a laugh' particularly with this season's circumstances,IMO.
Enjoy it while it lasts - The Revie,Wilko,OLeary years don't come along often and neither do they last long and in between we've had our moments too but after only "NINE PL games" with everybody at the club new to the scenario does not warrant 'some' of the comments posted on here,IMO.
Maybe that is why this Forum does not attract younger members and has lost so many of who I know well.

MOT

(Lights blue touch paper & stands back) - feel free to reply Oz. :heart:

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Not sure why everything has to be black and white Mrs O? The observation regarding how this thread has "morphed" related to the name calling that emanated from certain posters, when those who have criticisms of the club had the temerity to actually post them on this forum. Just because there are (legitimate) criticisms doesn't mean that all is bad. I and others have praised (frequently) the style of play, and the fact that we are (frankly) overachieving given that the squad is primarily that which got us promotion (and that squad was vastly improved in terms of performance since Bielsas arrival). However the problems identified some two seasons ago remain;

1. Bielsa is as stubborn as a mule
2. We have only one "style", which is significant in that every other club in the PL adapts (even the gash ones below us in the table) given the opposition, and we have been found out and found wanting defensively, with no "Plan B" when required.
3. Bielsa is overly loyal (yes, i mean that) to some players who need to be motivated by occasionally not being played as No. 1 in their favoured position. To those who would suggest that disturbs the formation, really? We are talking about players paid a kings ransom and who are selected because of their ability, they need to get over it (as Dallas, Klich, Ayling, Alioski, Berardi, and others have been required to).

There are others, but I suspect most can identify with those above.

Neither is Bielsa alone in having those traits, but he's OUR coach, I don't give a flying **** what others are like, or what they do, as long as Bielsa is able to counter them.

So, to your observation on us being just 9 games in.......not the point. The issues go back to before he joined the club, and have persisted since his arrival. That particular leopard isn't going to change his spots, and we shouldn't expect him to, but simply because we don't expect a change doesn't mean we can't express a desire for one, or does it?

HO isn't alone in saying he is "happy", and suggests those who have criticisms remain quiet. Perhaps the reason the forum is losing members and/or not attracting newcomers is that inability to tolerate alternative views and have discussion as opposed to exaggeration, hyperbole & name-calling (and yes, I have been guilty of all, and am trying to adhere to a more measured tone now)?

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Originally Posted by whitestomper45

If the scandalous VAR decisions had gone our way, we may already have those extra 3-4 points.. that after 9 games you are judging the club on.

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If this, if that, if the other, Leeds are no different from any other club in the PL in that respect, virtually every team has had a VAR shafting. Not the point, and not the point of the post, which was primarily concerned with our inability to score (and to do so without incurring the wrath of the great god VAR), and I would add to that our defensive weakness (only Fulham and Baggies have shipped more goals than us so far).

As for judging the club, at what point do you think it's legitimate to do so? 15 games, Christmas, after the mid-season transfer window? I suspect Bielsa is judging us after each and every game, from the first game to the last (and if he isn't, then he's not the god of football he is made out to be). Like I say, no-one expected us to be top, or tear up anywhere, but 9 games in and we have dropped from 5th to 14th in a month, and netted just twice in that time and conceded 8. What trend in that latter period is to be celebrated, no matter how wonderful the style of play?

I don't think I'm alone in suggesting we are a "one trick pony", and have been found out. Arsenal were as unlucky as we were (possibly moreso) not to go away with all three points on Sunday. Their finishing was appalling which is what cost them 2 points and gave us one.

We made Leicester look good and got run ragged by 34yr old Jamie Vardy, despite our acknowledged fitness levels. Against Palace we had no answer to Eze and Ayew. We will face other sides who will set themselves up do what both Leicester and Palace did, and we need a better answer than "more of the same" or more of the same will happen. Do I expect there to be any changes? Probably not (see my reply to Mrs O), but eventually they may be forced on us, no-one at the club is indispensible.

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Originally Posted by WTF11

If this, if that, if the other, Leeds are no different from any other club in the PL in that respect, virtually every team has had a VAR shafting. Not the point, and not the point of the post, which was primarily concerned with our inability to score (and to do so without incurring the wrath of the great god VAR), and I would add to that our defensive weakness (only Fulham and Baggies have shipped more goals than us so far).

As for judging the club, at what point do you think it's legitimate to do so? 15 games, Christmas, after the mid-season transfer window? I suspect Bielsa is judging us after each and every game, from the first game to the last (and if he isn't, then he's not the god of football he is made out to be). Like I say, no-one expected us to be top, or tear up anywhere, but 9 games in and we have dropped from 5th to 14th in a month, and netted just twice in that time and conceded 8. What trend in that latter period is to be celebrated, no matter how wonderful the style of play?

I don't think I'm alone in suggesting we are a "one trick pony", and have been found out. Arsenal were as unlucky as we were (possibly moreso) not to go away with all three points on Sunday. Their finishing was appalling which is what cost them 2 points and gave us one.

We made Leicester look good and got run ragged by 34yr old Jamie Vardy, despite our acknowledged fitness levels. Against Palace we had no answer to Eze and Ayew. We will face other sides who will set themselves up do what both Leicester and Palace did, and we need a better answer than "more of the same" or more of the same will happen. Do I expect there to be any changes? Probably not (see my reply to Mrs O), but eventually they may be forced on us, no-one at the club is indispensible.

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Whatever you’re views I will be judging the team at the end of season... ie on his brief... to keep us up. (With the added benefit of entertaining) A club that is getting stronger both on and off the field. You cannot seriously be judging any team in this disjointed season to date. scum 10th Arsenal 11 and Citeh 12. Liverpool suddenly no longer miles clear... you think there is no connection with number of games individual players are making? The international breaks have added far more disruption and is badly impeding clubs supplying players to national teams.