Stockport post match reflections

Ulley,you're wasting your breath,some have a thing with Hamshaw, and will take against anything and anybody associated with him.
Martha seems to be the latest target for abuse, and while he's frustrating, in the right set up he will be asset.
I see him as bit of a "luxury " player at the minute, so you need the likes of Gore and Spence playing alongside him to fo the dirty work.

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Originally Posted by Townerslovechild

Ulley,you're wasting your breath,some have a thing with Hamshaw, and will take against anything and anybody associated with him.
Martha seems to be the latest target for abuse, and while he's frustrating, in the right set up he will be asset.
I see him as bit of a "luxury " player at the minute, so you need the likes of Gore and Spence playing alongside him to fo the dirty work.

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You absolutely do need those lads. There's no sense in thinking Martha is a wing back, a defensive midfielder, or a box-to-box player. His talent is obvious, the role he needs to play is clearly up top, and like any forward they're going to frustrate a lot of the time. It's a shame that fans want to show people the door rather than point to how they could be better deployed. We'll always have a hard time at this club because our fans fundamentally do two things consistently: 1) Divide on managerial appointments, and 2) Have next-to no patience with any 'flair' players who don't break their backs to defend aswell.

You're right, bit of breath wasting.

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Originally Posted by UlleyMiller

You absolutely do need those lads. There's no sense in thinking Martha is a wing back, a defensive midfielder, or a box-to-box player. His talent is obvious, the role he needs to play is clearly up top, and like any forward they're going to frustrate a lot of the time. It's a shame that fans want to show people the door rather than point to how they could be better deployed. We'll always have a hard time at this club because our fans fundamentally do two things consistently: 1) Divide on managerial appointments, and 2) Have next-to no patience with any 'flair' players who don't break their backs to defend aswell.

You're right, bit of breath wasting.

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If Hamshaw would switch to a back 4 I'd quite like to see Martha played as a right winger (he does have good pace) with Rafferty at full back behind him.
Martha's biggest problem is his lack of physical strength which is one reason he can't defend so playing him as a wing back is frankly ridiculous.
I don't think we'll ever see the best of him until he's given a regular, specific role.

Martha can't play wide simple as. Kaleta same. Hamshaw realises that saying he's looking for who that can goes past defenders presumably on the outside would think.

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Originally Posted by mellowmiller

If Hamshaw would switch to a back 4 I'd quite like to see Martha played as a right winger (he does have good pace) with Rafferty at full back behind him.
Martha's biggest problem is his lack of physical strength which is one reason he can't defend so playing him as a wing back is frankly ridiculous.
I don't think we'll ever see the best of him until he's given a regular, specific role.

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I'd agree with that because not only is Rafferty better suited to a flat 4 (IMHO) but he's so strong in that role that Martha would end up almost how Chieo finished as a dedicated RW/floating forward role. I've seen Martha have a couple of flashpoints with opposing players and it looked like there's a bit more to him than people think... but it may need his temper to have gone to get there, so maybe that's just someone to fire him up a bit. He does need a regular role, and for fans to accept that some players aren't well suited to switching positions every game.

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Originally Posted by UlleyMiller

I'd agree with that because not only is Rafferty better suited to a flat 4 (IMHO) but he's so strong in that role that Martha would end up almost how Chieo finished as a dedicated RW/floating forward role. I've seen Martha have a couple of flashpoints with opposing players and it looked like there's a bit more to him than people think... but it may need his temper to have gone to get there, so maybe that's just someone to fire him up a bit. He does need a regular role, and for fans to accept that some players aren't well suited to switching positions every game.

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I don't Wilkes was a far better player than Martha once moved more central up front. On the right cutting inside didn't work with him though.

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Originally Posted by RU66

I don't Wilkes was a far better player than Martha once moved more central up front. On the right cutting inside didn't work with him though.

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Wilkes was a far better player when he was moved to a position Martha hasn't been put in...? (Plus obligatory 'cutting in is bad' statement).

McGuckin would've done better...

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Originally Posted by UlleyMiller

You absolutely do need those lads. There's no sense in thinking Martha is a wing back, a defensive midfielder, or a box-to-box player. His talent is obvious, the role he needs to play is clearly up top, and like any forward they're going to frustrate a lot of the time. It's a shame that fans want to show people the door rather than point to how they could be better deployed. We'll always have a hard time at this club because our fans fundamentally do two things consistently: 1) Divide on managerial appointments, and 2) Have next-to no patience with any 'flair' players who don't break their backs to defend aswell.

You're right, bit of breath wasting.

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Ulley, both TLC and yourself make fair points on Martha. You're not wasting your breath you're just voicing your personal opinion like I have. I'm in agreement with TLC that he's a flair player and like you I do believe there's a player there somewhere but I've yet to see it.

He's got to be talented otherwise like another poster said, he wouldn't have made it through the Ajax ranks. at the moment he's simply not delivering. Neither, can we afford to experiment with him in the side until he finds his natural position. We are fighting for our League 1 retention so can ill afford to dally with him.

Had we been comfortable say around 8th - 10th then yes by all means we could have tried him here there and everywhere but, that is a luxury we do not have. He was brought in specifically to perform in a wing back role. I've yet to see him do that. He's not interested in tracking back or going in for a tackle. I am not singling just him out but where do we play him?

You say he needs to play up top. He's neither physically built or has the strength to playing totally up top. Playing off the likes of Nombe might have worked? but now Gray has been brought in, where exactly does he fit in on top? If Hamshaw manages to get Ryan One from S2 then he's pushed even further down the front pecking order. I can only see it working for him and the team if Hamshaw reverts to a solid back four and he's given a role has a winger down the right, he has the speed, the agility to pass players, if he doesn't showboat trying to take too many players on, and has a shot on him. Other than that, he's going to be on the bench, was he brought in to do that?

Martha never has, nor will be a good footballer..
Ajax have hundreds of players going through the ranks. They got rid for a reason. Just because he was there doesn't mean he's any good. And nobody can name a game he's shone in...I would argue jack Holmes has looked a better player than Martha and he's non league at best

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Originally Posted by caytonmiller

Martha never has, nor will be a good footballer..
Ajax have hundreds of players going through the ranks. They got rid for a reason. Just because he was there doesn't mean he's any good. And nobody can name a game he's shone in...I would argue jack Holmes has looked a better player than Martha and he's non league at best

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Dont particularly rate him but he played well against Bradford at home.