OT - Salisbury Poisoning

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Absolutely right. They’re all f’in useless and scared to death of being called undemocratic while most of the Brexitears themselves are equally frightened of admitting they were so horribly wrong and have really dropped us in it.
Much as I think the ‘people’ haven’t got a clue the only way out now would seem to be a ‘People’s Vote’. It’ll spell the end of May but at least we’ll be able to abandon plans for stockpiling medicines and food and using Channel bound motorways as car parks.
Next week I’m off back to the Spanish house I was staying in when the Referendum result was announced, costs a lot more now of course, but I reckon things might come almost full circle in terms of announcements while we’re away. ;D

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I think that you are being a bit of a hypocrite there. You have constantly argued against the referendum and now you advocate it as the only back. Also you are always rubbishing other people, ie ttr, for quoting non proven figures and now your stating that 'most' brexiteers are frightened they were wrong. Where did you get these facts? I take it your sprouting operation fear tactics again. Remind me about the previous operation fear, instant stock market crash, mass unemployment, 4p on income tax, increase in VAT, just how many of these things ACTUALLY HAPPENED?


Anyway we have drifted off topic. You backed Corbyn for waiting for more evidence before accusing Russia, we now have more evidence so don't you think that Corbyn and other Russia apologists should now denounce their attack on Britain?


It is an attack on the people of Britain, specifically Salisbury where a totally unconnected person has lost their life. What would you and Corbyn had said if it had been a small child who had picked up that perfume bottle and had taken it into school and sprayed it on their friends?

It would take Corbyn one minute to denounce Russia over this before getting back to current affairs but I imagine that his silence will be deafening.

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Originally Posted by Ram59

I think that you are being a bit of a hypocrite there. You have constantly argued against the referendum and now you advocate it as the only back. Also you are always rubbishing other people, ie ttr, for quoting non proven figures and now your stating that 'most' brexiteers are frightened they were wrong. Where did you get these facts? I take it your sprouting operation fear tactics again. Remind me about the previous operation fear, instant stock market crash, mass unemployment, 4p on income tax, increase in VAT, just how many of these things ACTUALLY HAPPENED?


Anyway we have drifted off topic. You backed Corbyn for waiting for more evidence before accusing Russia, we now have more evidence so don't you think that Corbyn and other Russia apologists should now denounce their attack on Britain?


It is an attack on the people of Britain, specifically Salisbury where a totally unconnected person has lost their life. What would you and Corbyn had said if it had been a small child who had picked up that perfume bottle and had taken it into school and sprayed it on their friends?

It would take Corbyn one minute to denounce Russia over this before getting back to current affairs but I imagine that his silence will be deafening.

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Wow...bit full on Ram. Not sure where to start, but I’ll try.

I don’t think Corbyn was a ‘Russia apologist’. Back in March he wanted evidence before the Government started making accusations. That doesn’t seem unreasonable to me and it has taken six months for today’s evidence to be revealed.
I haven’t got a lot of time for Corbyn, none at all for Putin and I don’t in any way support the actions that were taken, but politics is a dirty business and the only people I have real sympathy for are the entirely innocent British citizens who got caught up in it all.

As for the Brexit bit, I don’t think I’m being a hypocrite. I always thought the notion of having a referendum on such a complex issue was ridiculous and foolhardy and my suggestion that many Brexitears now see the error of their ways was a suggestion not me trying to put forward a ‘fact’.

I feel that many ‘Remainers’ from all areas of the political spectrum are reluctant to call for a second referendum because people such as yourself will immediately launch the bandwagon of them being anti democratic. I also feel that many Brexiteers have serious misgivings about admitting they were wrong because it would be political suicide to do so.

Having said all that...a second referendum would not, imo, be undemocratic because 37% doesn’t constitute anything like a democratic majority and if no politician is going to have the ‘balls’ to say ‘this wasn’t meant to happen...it only serves to damage our country...it was always ‘mission impossible’ but has been horribly mishandled’...then let’s have a second, compulsory referendum - preferably for those aged six**** and over. At least then you will have a truly democratic decision and there can be little doubt that the ‘people’ are now better informed than they were in 2016.

So, it would be far from perfect but it would be a resolution. As for all the doom and gloom prophecies about Brexit...well the £ fell immediately, following the Referendum, and has never come close to recovery and...in case you hadn’t noticed...it hasn’t actually happened yet.

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Originally Posted by Ram59

I think that you are being a bit of a hypocrite there. You have constantly argued against the referendum and
now you advocate it as the only back. Also you are always rubbishing other people, ie ttr, for quoting non proven figures and now your stating that 'most' brexiteers are frightened they were wrong. Where did you get these facts? I take it your sprouting operation fear tactics again. Remind me about the previous operation fear, instant stock market crash, mass unemployment, 4p on income tax, increase in VAT, just how many of these things ACTUALLY HAPPENED?


Anyway we have drifted off topic. You backed Corbyn for waiting for more evidence before accusing Russia, we now have more evidence so don't you think that Corbyn and other Russia apologists should now denounce their attack on Britain?


It is an attack on the people of Britain, specifically Salisbury where a totally unconnected person has lost their life. What would you and Corbyn had said if it had been a small child who had picked up that perfume bottle and had taken it into school and sprayed it on their friends?

It would take Corbyn one minute to denounce Russia over this before getting back to current affairs but I imagine that his silence will be deafening.

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" It would take Corbyn one minute to denounce Russia over this ". He did in thcommons today or maybe you are to biased in your thoughts to know that Only an idiot would say someone has done something without waiting for the evidence and Corbyn is no idiot Will leave that to Boris

And the fact still remains, that the Govt is more keen to score points by going after the Russians rather than protecting the public.
I'm not saying the prosecuting and investigating is wrong, they must and should.
But what about the public? No alerts issued until this disclosure. For 6 months they kept quiet on possible contamination in the London hotel and even in the other incident, only declared after the 2 fell ill.

I appear to have missed something. Where is this "evidence" of Russia's involvement? The mention of it here is the first I have seen or heard........

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

I appear to have missed something. Where is this "evidence" of Russia's involvement? The mention of it here is the first I have seen or heard........

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Of course we are taking the word of HM's Govt here as true.
But as much as they try to pin the blame on the Russians, and let's say give them the benefit of doubt, there leaves a lot of room for a Russian denial to given the same weight.
Why wasn't the evidence shared, you have persons entering with supposed fake Russian passports, why not ask Russia to verify?
Why wasn't the public alerted if the intention is to save lives?

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Originally Posted by Romanis

Of course we are taking the word of HM's Govt here as true.
But as much as they try to pin the blame on the Russians, and let's say give them the benefit of doubt, there leaves a lot of room for a Russian denial to given the same weight.
Why wasn't the evidence shared, you have persons entering with supposed fake Russian passports, why not ask Russia to verify?
Why wasn't the public alerted if the intention is to save lives?

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Former British Ambassador Craig Murray thinks that Photoshop or a similar product has been (mis)used. If you look at the 2 photos (the photos that supposedly prove they came into the country just before the attack.....) in the url below this, you will see 2 men in exactly the same place at exactly the same second but the camera seems to have missed the simultaneous character of the 2 photos. You can see a good 10 yards or more behind the man in the photo but the co-conspirator is nowhere to be seen.............

I think this proof is as trustworthy as the Blair/Bush WMD claims.

http://nyebevannews.co.uk/former-bri...killer-photos/

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Former British Ambassador Craig Murray thinks that Photoshop or a similar product has been (mis)used. If you look at the 2 photos (the photos that supposedly prove they came into the country just before the attack.....) in the url below this, you will see 2 men in exactly the same place at exactly the same second but the camera seems to have missed the simultaneous character of the 2 photos. You can see a good 10 yards or more behind the man in the photo but the co-conspirator is nowhere to be seen.............

I think this proof is as trustworthy as the Blair/Bush WMD claims.

http://nyebevannews.co.uk/former-bri...killer-photos/

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Interesting and disturbing, MA. I have no idea whether all this new evidence is genuine or as fake as one of Farage’s Brexit refugee posters. What I do recognise however is a smoke screen when I see one.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Interesting and disturbing, MA. I have no idea whether all this new evidence is genuine or as fake as one of Farage’s Brexit refugee posters. What I do recognise however is a smoke screen when I see one.

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I don't think Craig Murray would knowingly be involved in "fake news" but, as you intimate, he might have been fed Photoshop versions of the photos. There must be ways of checking if the photos have been tampered with but that is outside my skill set.

If they were photoshopped why didn’t they photoshop the time stamp? Seems a bit of a daft and obvious error.