OT - Boris Johnson and the Freedom of Speech

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Originally Posted by GUNTERYY36

Where do I say I support the EDL? I don't. You should be careful with such accusations.

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I really don’t think I need to be ‘careful’ Gunteryy.
As MA correctly points out, the word ‘apparently’ indicates a probability, not any claim to fact and in any case...on 13th August you clearly stated that you felt Tommy Robinson to be deserving of a knighthood.
Along with conveying every appearance of being a racist thug, Tommy Robinson is the co-founder of the EDL. One imagines that you believe it is his political beliefs and actions that would entitle him to the title of ‘Sir’ - rather than his low level criminal activities - and thus it is not unreasonable to suppose that the EDL holds some attractions for you.
Feel free to carry on arguing if you wish but please don’t try and become threatening.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

I really don’t think I need to be ‘careful’ Gunteryy.
As MA correctly points out, the word ‘apparently’ indicates a probability, not any claim to fact and in any case...on 13th August you clearly stated that you felt Tommy Robinson to be deserving of a knighthood.
Along with conveying every appearance of being a racist thug, Tommy Robinson is the co-founder of the EDL. One imagines that you believe it is his political beliefs and actions that would entitle him to the title of ‘Sir’ - rather than his low level criminal activities - and thus it is not unreasonable to suppose that the EDL holds some attractions for you.
Feel free to carry on arguing if you wish but please don’t try and become threatening.

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You most certainly do need to be careful. Any mention or of supporting the EDL and any other so-called far right organisation needs to be used carefully and sparingly. Just as you wouldn't cite verses from the Quran and use them to question modern day practices by 'moderate or 'peaceful'muslims'.

You constantly use the knighthood remark as a stick to beat me with yet know full well it wasn't meant literally. The comment by Donald Trump in the US election campaign concerning Mexico sending their rapists over the border was similar though admittedly one which he later regretted given the backlash from H Clinton. So let's 'put that to bed'.

TR's tries to highlight the events of Rochdale and Rotherham but is thrown in prison for his comments as they would presumably upset adherents of the religion that must not be named. As someone speculated earlier on this thread, why does the government shut him up? What have they got to hide? Why do they need to burst into his home and ransack the place? Giving a nonsensical 'far right' label is just a means of convincing people like you that he's a menace to society. Yes, the EDL were a disorganised mob who shouldn't be taken seriously but TR's current accusations most assuredly should.

You need to stop flying into a rage and consulting your dictionary of abusive names every time TR is mentioned. You would be better advised giving an objective assessment of what he says.

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Originally Posted by GUNTERYY36

You most certainly do need to be careful. Any mention or of supporting the EDL and any other so-called far right organisation needs to be used carefully and sparingly. Just as you wouldn't cite verses from the Quran and use them to question modern day practices by 'moderate or 'peaceful'muslims'.

You constantly use the knighthood remark as a stick to beat me with yet know full well it wasn't meant literally. The comment by Donald Trump in the US election campaign concerning Mexico sending their rapists over the border was similar though admittedly one which he later regretted given the backlash from H Clinton. So let's 'put that to bed'.

TR's tries to highlight the events of Rochdale and Rotherham but is thrown in prison for his comments as they would presumably upset adherents of the religion that must not be named. As someone speculated earlier on this thread, why does the government shut him up? What have they got to hide? Why do they need to burst into his home and ransack the place? Giving a nonsensical 'far right' label is just a means of convincing people like you that he's a menace to society. Yes, the EDL were a disorganised mob who shouldn't be taken seriously but TR's current accusations most assuredly should.

You need to stop flying into a rage and consulting your dictionary of abusive names every time TR is mentioned. You would be better advised giving an objective assessment of what he says.

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1) I’m not given to ‘flying into rages’.
2) How am I meant to know ‘full well’ that you didn’t mean the ‘knighthood remark’ literally? All I know of you is what you write.
3) No idea where Trump fits into this.
4) TR went to prison for contempt of court. Plenty of others, from all sides of the political spectrum ‘tried to highlight’ the issues and ‘events’ of Rochdale, Rotherham and elsewhere. The difference is...they didn’t break the law in their desire to further their own agenda.

Suggest that, rather than me being ‘careful’ you shouldn’t write what you later tell us all you didn’t mean. It’s really quite reasonable to conclude that, if someone speaks so highly of another individual then they are likely to be perceived as respecting that person and their beliefs/actions.

Gunter, here are a few facts.......

The trial TR reported on was subject to reporting restrictions because the trial is linked to and has commonalities with other ongoing trials. Some of the victims are the same. Some of the suspects/defendants are the same. In order to give them a fair trial, names and verdicts are not to be linked. Anything that might have the slightest influence on the other trials being fair and just may not be reported. It appears TR did just that. That is against the Law.

I think that, in his retrial, he will be found guilty and his sentence will be time served.

He knows exactly what Contempt is as he has been found guilty of it before. He will know what he can and can't report. Go outside of those parameters and you put yourself in danger of arrest.

I have yet to hear him condemn the 3 white guys recently jailed for raping babies. If he really is what he makes himself out to be, he would be all over that case like a rash too....... maybe you can enlighten us as to why he isn't all over it.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

1) I’m not given to ‘flying into rages’.
2) How am I meant to know ‘full
well’ that you didn’t mean the ‘knighthood remark’ literally? All I know of you is what you write.
3) No idea where Trump fits into this.
4) TR went to prison for contempt of court. Plenty of others, from all sides of the political spectrum ‘tried to highlight’ the issues and ‘events’ of Rochdale, Rotherham and elsewhere. The difference is...they didn’t break the law in their desire to further their own agenda.

Suggest that, rather than me being ‘careful’ you shouldn’t write what you later tell us all you didn’t mean. It’s really quite reasonable to conclude that, if someone speaks so highly of another individual then they are likely to be perceived as respecting that person and their beliefs/actions.

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Don't i just wish I had your patience

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Originally Posted by mistaram

Don't i just wish I had your patience

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You must have a fair bit, mista...watching Derby as often as you do. ;D

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

You must have a fair bit, mista...watching Derby as often as you do. ;D

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Yes that can really test you But how you keep your cool with some of the idiots in here always amazes me Must be all though years teaching i suppose I just can't keep cool if somebody tries to humiliate me i will retaliate Mind you there are exceptions the wife for one I don't mess with her i could never win there

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Originally Posted by mistaram

Yes that can really test you But how you keep your cool with some of the idiots in here always amazes me Must be all though years teaching i suppose I just can't keep cool if somebody tries to humiliate me i will retaliate Mind you there are exceptions the wife for one I don't mess with her i could never win there

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You don't have to keep your cool. If you don't agree with someone's point of view you can always challenge it or send them to the back of the class or something. Go for it.

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Gunter, here are a few facts.......

The trial TR reported on was subject to reporting restrictions because the trial is linked to and has commonalities with other ongoing trials. Some of the victims are the same. Some of the suspects/defendants are the same. In order to give them a fair trial, names and verdicts are not to be linked. Anything that might have the slightest influence on the other trials being fair and just may not be reported. It appears TR did just that. That is against the Law.

I think that, in his retrial, he will be found guilty and his sentence will be time served.

He knows exactly what Contempt is as he has been found guilty of it before. He will know what he can and can't report. Go outside of those parameters and you put yourself in danger of arrest.

I have yet to hear him condemn the 3 white guys recently jailed for raping babies. If he really is what he makes himself out to be, he would be all over that case like a rash too....... maybe you can enlighten us as to why he isn't all over it.

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RamAnag, I agree that when TR violated reporting restrictions on an ongoing trial he was breaking the law. He should have been punished accordingly. But speaking strictly as a layman, I think 13 months seems an excessively long sentence. As did a similarly long sentence for the man who threw a pork chop outside a mosque. Still, I digress. As I alluded to earlier, it's a great shame the media don't report on individual cases of muslim 'grooming' to the same extent as they do technicalities in the trial of everyone's favourite pantomime villain. I haven't heard of the case you mentioned concerning the three white guys. But if it's true I agree, he should come out and condemn it.

By the way, some threads lead to exchanges that become a little (unnecessarily) personal. But I have not consciously tried to 'humiliate' you. But if that has happened I apologise unreservedly.

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Originally Posted by GUNTERYY36

RamAnag, I agree that when TR violated reporting restrictions on an ongoing trial he was breaking the law. He should have been punished accordingly. But speaking strictly as a layman, I think 13 months seems an excessively long sentence. As did a similarly long sentence for the man who threw a pork chop outside a mosque. Still, I digress. As I alluded to earlier, it's a great shame the media don't report on individual cases of muslim 'grooming' to the same extent as they do technicalities in the trial of everyone's favourite pantomime villain. I haven't heard of the case you mentioned concerning the three white guys. But if it's true I agree, he should come out and condemn it.

By the way, some threads lead to exchanges that become a little (unnecessarily) personal. But I have not consciously tried to 'humiliate' you. But if that has happened I apologise unreservedly.

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I think you’re confusing mista and myself Gunteryy. I didn’t mention a case of ‘three white guys’, mista did and I can assure you I have never felt ‘humiliated’ by you or anyone else on here. That was another of mista’s suggestions
Mista was, understandably in the circumstances, offering me support because arguing with you is a little like banging one’s head against a brick wall. You make a ridiculous statement, in this case about how ‘70% of Muslims’ behave and then, when challenged, change the subject completely, fail to substantiate it or claim ‘never to have meant it literally’.
Tbh I have some seriously more pressing matters that are of genuine concern to me at the moment and arguing with people who use such ‘tactics’ as you do is a waste of my time.
I’m not quite sure what your aim is. You don’t come from or have any interest in Derby County...you say very little - a few anti Derby jibes apart - about football and you seem hell bent on having a political argument with me in your effort to justify the actions of a few right wing, racist bigots such as Robinson and his EDL.
People on here may well be heartily sick of politics featuring on this forum but I think the likes of MoP, Ram59 and occasionally Andy would agree that, although we regularly disagree, I am nothing if not respectful of their position and consistent in my arguments. Unfortunately the same cannot be said about you and my time may be put to much better use elsewhere.