O/T:- Election

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Originally Posted by Elite_Pie

A lot to like and respect about that. But it ignores the fact that Thatcher left some communities in similar situations to rot. I know some unions were getting above themselves back then due to some extreme left leadership, but she was so determined to topple them that she gave no consideration at all to the real victims. Those victims were working class families who just wanted a job. Most had family ties which stopped them "getting on their bike", so they were left without hope. She saw them as collateral damage rather than real people.



And I remember Thatcher using the police force as her private army. At the height of the miners strike I cycled past Cinderhill colliery on my way to work, so I witnessed some of the scenes first hand. The violence I saw didn't come from the left, it came from the police.

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I totally agree with all you say. My business was based in the coal fields of Notts and Derbyshire and the closure of the pits signalled boom time for a period, then absolute collapse (which happened years after the pits were closed). I had to relocate the venture to the West Midlands, Staffordshire and Hertfordshire. This meant that I had to leave home each morning at approximately 5.30am and return home at about 6.30pm. This was 5 days a week for 10 years.

We not only survived, but did quite well - but it was very hard work.

Our vans used to get stopped by the police all the time during the strike to check if we were carrying any 'flying pickets'.

The pits were being closed long before Thatcher, as the governments under Harold Wilson and then Jim Callaghan had already embarked on a massive pit closure program without the then large redundancy payouts to miners that Thatcher introduced (through Ian MacGregor). Of course with Thatcher not being Labour, she is portrayed as the person who destroyed the coal fields and the communities, but that isn't factually fully correct.

Coal from the 1960's onwards cost so much more to mine in the UK than it did elsewhere. Either the mines had to catch up or the consumer had to pay a lot more. However, we both know that it wasn't about the mines, it was a show of strength that the unions would never again bring down a government. That was where the collateral damage occurred.

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Originally Posted by SmiffyPie

VAT should be levied on non-essentials only. Food (I know it isn't now), water, electricity, gas etc should be VAT free.

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Why? Do you know how much VAT evasion happens because of the zero-rated items?

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Originally Posted by Elite_Pie

I honestly couldn't pick a best government. Right back to the Heath v Wilson era most of them merge into the 'meh' category so only the bad ones stand out. The worst two do happen to be Tory governments however, starting with Thatcher. She governed solely for her supporters, and they undoubtedly did very well under her. But if you didn't support her you didn't count, you were left to rot. I didn't ever think I'd see worse, but this bunch have proved me wrong. The level of lies, cronyism and corruption has gone off the scale. I blame Johnson for that more than Sunak, but Sunak was happy to be part of it. I can't wait to see them binned.

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Don't you class the Labour government of sunny Jim Callaghan in that bracket that caused Thatcher to get elected in the first place. I remember the end of the Wilson/ Callaghan era when the country was almost bankcrupt, the union's ruled the roost. Rubbish was piled high in the streets along with bodies in the morgues. I worked at a place where I wasn't allowed to move a pallet because it wasn't my job and often stood for hours until someone whose job it was came to move it. I was a trade union member all my working life and still am and they have served me well but that era was the worse I remember.

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Originally Posted by i961pie

I worked at a place where I wasn't allowed to move a pallet because it wasn't my job and often stood for hours until someone whose job it was came to move it.

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Reminds me of Carry On At Your Convenience: "Union rules says a tap fitter can't do a waste pipe fitter's job." XD

Who cares - the only good thing is that we can look forward to a Labour Goverment - so glad sunak and the rest of those greedy tories will be gone on July 4th and good riddance

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Originally Posted by Davy500

Who cares - the only good thing is that we can look forward to a Labour Goverment - so glad sunak and the rest of those greedy tories will be gone on July 4th and good riddance

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The only positive about this is that Labour probably can't do much worse than the Tories. I mean, you'd have to really try hard to do worse.

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Originally Posted by slack_pie

The only positive about this is that Labour probably can't do much worse than the Tories. I mean, you'd have to really try hard to do worse.

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I see Starmer has been coached out of looking as though he's about to cry at any moment.

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Originally Posted by i961pie

Don't you class the Labour government of sunny Jim Callaghan in that bracket that caused Thatcher to get elected in the first place. I remember the end of the Wilson/ Callaghan era when the country was almost bankcrupt, the union's ruled the roost. Rubbish was piled high in the streets along with bodies in the morgues. I worked at a place where I wasn't allowed to move a pallet because it wasn't my job and often stood for hours until someone whose job it was came to move it. I was a trade union member all my working life and still am and they have served me well but that era was the worse I remember.

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Good post, the reasons I voted for Mrs T in 79, last time I was in a union as well.
Since then I've voted Labour and Green, now the only alternative for working class voters (they're all looked upon as gamon scum by the Tories Labour lib dems and Green) are the popularist party's, though they're not to my tastes .

As a very poorly paid squaddie in the mid 70's I used to take part-time work when on leave in the UK. One job was driving HGV out of a distribution depot and delivering to Owen & Owen (remember them? Owen & Owen, C&A, BHS, Debenhams and others all gone to the wall). My first run was into Wolverhampton which I did no problem and got back to the depot about midday for another load. Put the wagon on the bay to be met by a bloke (union rep) who said quite forcefully "What are you doing back?", "Come for another load" says I, bloke turns purple and tells me nose to nose "Listen you, you go out at 8 and you come back at 4! understand?" (the union didn't like agency workers because they couldn't control them). Like a lot of others of my generation that incident put my back up straight away and I have never voted Labour (missed a few votes in silent (pointless) protest) until now. They will get my vote this time around to get these Tory buggers out.

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Originally Posted by SmiffyPie

As a very poorly paid squaddie in the mid 70's I used to take part-time work when on leave in the UK. One job was driving HGV out of a distribution depot and delivering to Owen & Owen (remember them? Owen & Owen, C&A, BHS, Debenhams and others all gone to the wall). My first run was into Wolverhampton which I did no problem and got back to the depot about midday for another load. Put the wagon on the bay to be met by a bloke (union rep) who said quite forcefully "What are you doing back?", "Come for another load" says I, bloke turns purple and tells me nose to nose "Listen you, you go out at 8 and you come back at 4! understand?" (the union didn't like agency workers because they couldn't control them). Like a lot of others of my generation that incident put my back up straight away and I have never voted Labour (missed a few votes in silent (pointless) protest) until now. They will get my vote this time around to get these Tory buggers out.

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But are you sure the unions haven't changes their spots? Junior Doctors now making it clear that they intend to influence the political landscape.