Election Year or Fear!

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

You don’t see even the slightest parallel between anti Semitism in 1930’s Germany and Islamophobia in the UK approaching a century later then?

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Yes i do, its you who doesn't.
Anti semitic attitudes in 1930's Germany, was targetting JEWS the people, for being Jewish. The hatred of the religion was based around econimic stereotyping. It was conducted into actual genicide as well other forms of abuse. So by your analogy, there is one side mirroring Germany for supression of opinion and speech, infiltrating education and politics. As well as conducting actual acts of terror in support of its actions. And you expect me to embrace that?

Islamophobia is the critiicising of a a religion, not the whorshipper.
In fact it is the followers of Islam, who are the ones dishing out abuse.

This is the West, no religion is beyong criticism;
Are you saying you are not Islamophobic then? Do you condone the Islamic treatment, of gays/Trans/ women/ apostates/ critics and the suppression of free speech.

That's a yes or no answer.


Now in the west, you are free to practice what ever religion you like. It does not give you the right to impose it on anyone else, or to make threats and violence on those who do not share you views.

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

Now in the west, you are free to practice what ever religion you like. It does not give you the right to impose it on anyone else, or to make threats and violence on those who do not share you views.

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Try telling that to the bible thumping right wing Christian Evangelists in America who've already got abortion banned in a fair few states.

These are the same zealots who say they are pro life yet support making guns available to everybody, even those who, in European eyes, shouldn't have one. Those with mental issues, those who have been convicted of gun crimes etc. Each and every shooting, mass shooting or not, gives the lie to their pro life ramblings.

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Try telling that to the bible thumping right wing Christian Evangelists in America who've already got abortion banned in a fair few states.

These are the same zealots who say they are pro life yet support making guns available to everybody, even those who, in European eyes, shouldn't have one. Those with mental issues, those who have been convicted of gun crimes etc. Each and every shooting, mass shooting or not, gives the lie to their pro life ramblings.

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Maddy, you seem to be evading the onvious as well.
Islam is a way of living. In full Islamic countries, it rules politics/law/liberties.
That is why it comes into conflict with the west. The west values freedom and freedom of speech and liberties.
But that brings them into direct conflict with the teachings of the Qu'ran.
Now figures quote anywhere between 10 to 25 % of Muslims are hard core radical. Who would gladly do harm to the examples I gave.
Now in the UK, that may be only 1% . But that would make 40 000 Muslims in the UK serious problems. It is no coincidence MI5 has a watch list of many radicals and mosques. You don't see that with Hundu's or Sikhs, or Johvo's

So is Islamophobia a fear of that religion? It is, and one earned by experiance of what it is capable of.

Seperate the religion though from the people. Being Islamophobic is not racist, though countrues like Iran try to make it so,to cover up their actions and nastiness.

The term “Islamophobia” probably existed before these bureaucrats of the empire used it. Still, this language remained rare until the late 1980s, when the word was transformed little by little into a political tool, under the pressure of British Muslims reacting to the fatwa that the Ayatollah Khomeini had pronounced against novelist Salman Rushdie, following his publication of The Satanic Verses. With its fluid meaning, the word “Islamophobia” amalgamates two very different concepts: the persecution of believers, which is a crime; and the critique of religion, which is a right. A newcomer in the semantic field of antiracism, this term has the ambition of making Islam untouchable by placing it on the same level as anti-Semitism.

Not missing a thing Tricky. Nowhere did I disagree with you. What I did was to point out that USA Conservative Bible Thumpers want everybody to live their life by the contents of the Old Testament. A book with very many similarities to the Quran and to the Torah. Although written centuries apart one could be excused for thinking they might have been written by the same person...

In short, they are all as bad as each other.

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Not missing a thing Tricky. Nowhere did I disagree with you. What I did was to point out that USA Conservative Bible Thumpers want everybody to live their life by the contents of the Old Testament. A book with very many similarities to the Quran and to the Torah. Although written centuries apart one could be excused for thinking they might have been written by the same person...

In short, they are all as bad as each other.

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I concur.

Religion, here has no place running politics/law/civil rights.
Its a personal thing and yours to enjoy. We left that behind in the middle ages.
If followers of Islam prefer that way(Sharia), then please move to a country that embraces it.
Do not expect your adopted home to change to suit.
The way the tempo has risen lately here, trouble looms large and fast.
It has taken direct threats and harrassment of the politicians here to realise this. But politicians have a habit of ignoring a problem until it bites them on the ass

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

Religion, here has no place running politics/law/civil rights.

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A thought just struck me... all 3 (4 if you take account of both the Old and the New Testaments) books were written by people who believed. Bible written by believers in God (Old testament), Jesus being the Son of God (New Testament), Torah written by Jews, Quran written by Mohammed, a Muslim. As we all know, just because you believe something that doesn't make it true.

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

A thought just struck me... all 3 (4 if you take account of both the Old and the New Testaments) books were written by people who believed. Bible written by believers in God (Old testament), Jesus being the Son of God (New Testament), Torah written by Jews, Quran written by Mohammed, a Muslim. As we all know, just because you believe something that doesn't make it true.

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All religions are based on faith. Therefore no proof required.
But the difference is, how far believers let that faith dictate and run their lives.
If you accept faith into your heart and live by it, its a personal decision. The 10 commandments for example, were a religious set of guidelines to live better by.
But trying to use it to run a country and its laws/ politcal leanings/ morality by choices/ freedom of choice and speech. Then you see the conflict. An Imman for example, will tell you, that the laws of God in Islam, over rule any laws of man

If Islam was the dominant religion in Europe, how would you feel being gay/trans/female/athiest/ apostate/other religion?
Last time I looked, no other religion had open laws and punishments for those people?

Basically TTR, I think everybody should be allowed to follow their chosen ideology within the bounds of Law. If your beliefs go against the Law then you have to ignore that part of the ideology and you should never, ever force others to follow that theology.

Spot on MA. Subverting the law to align with your religious beliefs is sadly what all religions have tried to do for centuries. The Islamic call for Sharia law isn't much different from other interferences (eg Henry 8) but it must be resisted absolutely

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

Yes i do, its you who doesn't.
Anti semitic attitudes in 1930's Germany, was targetting JEWS the people, for being Jewish. The hatred of the religion was based around econimic stereotyping. It was conducted into actual genicide as well other forms of abuse. So by your analogy, there is one side mirroring Germany for supression of opinion and speech, infiltrating education and politics. As well as conducting actual acts of terror in support of its actions. And you expect me to embrace that?

Islamophobia is the critiicising of a a religion, not the whorshipper.
In fact it is the followers of Islam, who are the ones dishing out abuse.

This is the West, no religion is beyong criticism;
Are you saying you are not Islamophobic then? Do you condone the Islamic treatment, of gays/Trans/ women/ apostates/ critics and the suppression of free speech.

That's a yes or no answer.


Now in the west, you are free to practice what ever religion you like. It does not give you the right to impose it on anyone else, or to make threats and violence on those who do not share you views.

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All ‘phobias’ are, as I understand…by definition, ‘irrational fears’, hence Islamophobia is an irrational fear of those who follow Islam…i.e. Muslims.

Am I Islamophobic? No…because I don’t have a fear - irrational or otherwise - of Muslims. Neither do I agree with the Muslim faith…or the Catholic Faith…or the Jewish faith.

I do, unfortunately, see parallels between Germany of the 1930’s and parts of Europe, including the UK, today but I also very much agree with the comments made by MA and GP earlier. Personally I want nothing to do with any religious faith, but I respect the rights of others to follow their beliefs providing they don’t wish to impose them on others. That is something which some militant Muslims may well be guilty of but they are not alone there.