O/T:- Covid Trump

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Originally Posted by drillerpie

I can't see why Wall Street would want to see the back of Trump - he's given them nothing but tax cuts and deregulation.

I think Trump calling foul play was a pre-planned strategy, knowing that postal votes would go against him.

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Looks like he's intent on following through and taking it to the supreme court, which could be a good thing in that it'll he keep his mind occupied for the foreseeable and lessen the potential for Trump doing something crazy in his final months in office.

I'm far from convinced though that the world is going to be a safer place with Biden as president and it's probably not good news for the UK in terms of a trade deal. However, it will be interesting to see how the woke/antifa/BLM nutters react when they realise Biden isn't going to give in to their every demand, which might expose them for the loonies they really are to those who believe they are a benign force.

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Originally Posted by upthemaggies

Looks like he's intent on following through and taking it to the supreme court, which could be a good thing in that it'll he keep his mind occupied for the foreseeable and lessen the potential for Trump doing something crazy in his final months in office.

I'm far from convinced though that the world is going to be a safer place with Biden as president and it's probably not good news for the UK in terms of a trade deal. However, it will be interesting to see how the woke/antifa/BLM nutters react when they realise Biden isn't going to give in to their every demand, which might expose them for the loonies they really are to those who believe they are a benign force.

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If you want to take a look at a real nutter, take a look at Giuliani speaking now.

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Originally Posted by upthemaggies

Now you might be onto something.

Back on topic, If any election in American history was going to be rigged, it would be this one. The entire media (bar Fox), wall street and the American war machine wanted a Biden victory. I can't blame Trump for calling foul play.

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On what basis? This was always his plan. Even his VP looked embarrassed this morning and certainly didn't back up his claim that he had already won.

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Originally Posted by magpie_mania

On what basis? This was always his plan.

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No disputing that. Vote fraud has been an issue that both sides have been taking seriously, see the clip of Biden (edited out of context) here....
https://twitter.com/i/status/1324082928490631169

Has there been zero fraud in this election? Probably not.
Enough to influence the final outcome? Depends how close the final result is.
Has only side benefited from vote fraud? Almost certainly not.
Is this a good look for democracy? No.
Should we scrap postal voting? It should be up for debate after this farce.

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Originally Posted by upthemaggies

Should we scrap postal voting? It should be up for debate after this farce.

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I don't think you can scrap it completely and I don't think that's what you mean. If someone has a genuine medical reason why they cannot attend a polling station, or if their job makes it impossible (rather than inconvenient) to do so, then with appropriate proof they should be able to vote by post.

The concern is the current trend towards people voting by post just because it's most convenient for them and takes the least effort. I understand why people want to do it and will take the opportunity if it's there, but it does open up the potential for more undemocratic things to occur, be it people being subject to undue influence when filling out their ballot paper, votes being lost or interfered with on their (longer) journey, or whatever.

There is still something to be said for walking into a carefully controlled public room, picking up a ballot paper, taking it to your own private booth, casting your vote with a small pencil and then posting it in a box. Of course you still need to trust that the boxes of votes are then transported and counted correctly, but so far as the physical act of voting is concerned, it's probably the best way we have of getting the ballot paper to a person and into a secure box by the quickest and shortest route, in a space where any attempt to interfere with your actions or thought processes can be stopped immediately. We even have controls on how many people can stand outside the polling station and what information they can request or impart.

There’s zero evidence of any fraud in the US election, either postal or in person.

It seems to me generally that voting should be made as easy as possible. Elections should be held on Sundays, with postal ballots available, and even electronic voting where it has been verified as secure. Postal ballots seem an especially good idea during a pandemic.

Politicians who benefit from low turnouts are usually the people who want to suppress voting and make it as hard as possible.

Trump's son said that they have always said that the only way that the Democrats would win was by cheating, and that they have been proved correct.

No evidence to support this, but say it enough times and people will believe it.

I fear that whatever happens, we won't have heard the last of Trump. If he should lose, when Biden is sworn in he will be constantly on Twitter with comment after comment. I'm quite surprised though that we haven't heard the phrase 'fake news' yet - I guess he's holding it back.

If Biden does win, I hope that it's as close to inauguration day as possible as I can't imagine what Trump will be like up to then.

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Originally Posted by magpie_mania

Trump's son said that they have always said that the only way that the Democrats would win was by cheating, and that they have been proved correct.

No evidence to support this, but say it enough times and people will believe it.

I fear that whatever happens, we won't have heard the last of Trump. If he should lose, when Biden is sworn in he will be constantly on Twitter with comment after comment. I'm quite surprised though that we haven't heard the phrase 'fake news' yet - I guess he's holding it back.

If Biden does win, I hope that it's as close to inauguration day as possible as I can't imagine what Trump will be like up to then.

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Twitter has already started censoring some of Trump's attacks on Biden as being unsubstantiated or unfounded, if he carries on now expect more censoring. I wouldn't be surprised if Biden now started fighting back, given the access to privy government documents he will have.

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Originally Posted by magpie_mania

Trump's son said that they have always said that the only way that the Democrats would win was by cheating, and that they have been proved correct.

No evidence to support this, but say it enough times and people will believe it.

I fear that whatever happens, we won't have heard the last of Trump. If he should lose, when Biden is sworn in he will be constantly on Twitter with comment after comment. I'm quite surprised though that we haven't heard the phrase 'fake news' yet - I guess he's holding it back.

If Biden does win, I hope that it's as close to inauguration day as possible as I can't imagine what Trump will be like up to then.

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Then we all need to keep saying that Trump is a lying git that hopes his money can subvert people's honest votes.

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Originally Posted by BigFatPie

It seems to me generally that voting should be made as easy as possible. Elections should be held on Sundays, with postal ballots available, and even electronic voting where it has been verified as secure. Postal ballots seem an especially good idea during a pandemic.

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I must say, I've got no problem holding elections on Sundays. I'm not religious and it would be convenient, so I could go for that idea.

Electronic voting I'm more dubious about, not the identity fraud side of things, but as with postal voting the person is still casting their vote in an environment that isn't controlled like a polling station is. There is still the possibility that undue influence or duress may be applied, like someone looking over the person's shoulder to ensure they vote a certain way. In a polling booth it's just you alone with a pencil, although actually I'd change that to a pen, because pencil markings can be erased!

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Originally Posted by BigFatPie

Politicians who benefit from low turnouts are usually the people who want to suppress voting and make it as hard as possible.

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Politicians who don't have or cannot mobilise enough voters are perhaps most likely to want a voting system that's more open to manipulation.

But in any case, voting in the UK is not "hard" at all. I agree that postal voting (or A N Other remote voting system) must be available to those who for good reason cannot physically access a polling station, because there is no other way to ensure they get a vote. But the rest of us are perfectly capable of walking, cycling or driving the usually very short distance from their door to attend their nearest station. In some cases it will be even nearer to you than the closest post box.

Voting shouldn't be viewed as a chore anyway. It should be something you want to go out and do, to make your voice heard. On average you probably only have to make the effort once every two years. If someone is physically able to attend their nearest polling station, but just can't be bothered, then the problem is with their personal priorities and sense of public responsibility, not with the polling system.