OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

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Originally Posted by swaledale

Ramspride you come across with reasonable and sensible points but they are fundamentally flawed, I have frineds and business colleagues who also voted leave and I am astounded at the reasons they give and yes I do think that decision was stupid, it was shooting oneself in the foot in a big way, even intelligent people make stupid decisions so I'm not saying your stupid, but the decision to vote leave certainly was.

On the subject of immigrants overcrowding our services etc. The answer is they more than pay for them, its up to the government to plan for that - we need these people our birth rate is low and the population is getting older, who is going to pay for the pensioners if there aren't people working? Who is going to keep our services and industries going if there isn't the labour? Who is going to do those jobs which many Uk people feel are "beneath" them without immigration? Immigration has made this country the economic success it is and unfortunately leaving the EU is not going to stop the need for that.


Exactly which laws have impacted negatively on the UK? Which laws are so outlandish that we wouldn't have adopted them anyway?

Which countries have we been pouring money into? Do you have the same view about International Aid? Does it not make moral and economic sense for richer countries to provide assistance, both financial and practical to poorer countries so that the economic imbalance which encourages both immigration and conflicts is at least evened up a bit?


Leaving the EU is not going to resolve the issues you mention, in fact its likely to make them worse, yes successive governments have mishandled many issues, yes the Eu isn't perfect, though it does have many positives, its used as a convenient scapegoat and when we leave and nothing changes for the better who will w e blame then?

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Agree completely. I'd love some examples of these terrible laws that have been imposed upon us...ones that aren't about that tiresome old favourite...bananas. It would also make a pleasant change if the more vociferous 'leave' supporters on here would recognise that, although we are opposed to Brexit, many 'Remainers' - including Swale and I - don't believe that the EU is a perfect, fault free organisation. Personally I agree it has many faults but I'd prefer our country to be part of a united Europe that changes things from within than an isolated nation run by seemingly increasingly eccentric and balmy politicians.

Shock horror - Tweedledum agrees with Tweedledee. Bill with Ben....fallubadub.

Silly laws? There are so many unpopular ones that frequent the pages of the Daily Express and Daily Mail that I have lost count, but lots of these comprise whingeing about sensible change. I rather liked the one banning vendors of water from claiming that it aids rehydration because "experts" thought that it didnt. Perhaps those experts worked for iPro? Also the law preventing you eating a horse that you owned, but you could eat someone else's horse with impugnity. Or the planned law to enforce the removal of the back legs of tortoises to prevent them roaming into other peoples gardens and destroying produce. The list goes on.

Most of the examples one hears of are in the consumer environment and actually try to standardise things for better or worse. I have no problem with a lot of them but they are introduced in a very high handed way. It soes make one wonder if such trivial actions are replicated in more serious areas of the law though. I suppose its the "unintended consequences" that piss me off though - the pointless destruction of non conformist food products when half the world is starving??? Tey telling a starving person in sub Saharan Africa rhat they cannot eat that banana as it curves too much or that horse because he owned it. And what did the animal rights people make of the tortoise law?

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

..I'd prefer our country to be part of a united Europe that changes things from within than an isolated nation run...

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What makes you think that Europe is united, or that we are isolated?

Roger...quoting the Mail and the Express immediately disqualifies you from making sensible comment, as does that first ridiculous sentence. Other than that you seem to be in agreement...do wish you'd make your mind up.

Adi...unfortunately I think Europe is becoming increasingly disunited and, as a consequence, dangerous. What I said was 'I'd prefer our country to be part of a united Europe...'. It also seems clear that if, as a small island nation on the physical - and increasingly political - edge of Europe, we continue to distance ourself from our neighbours we run the risk of becoming increasingly isolated.

Globalisation has happened mate, you can talk, trade, or solicit naughties with someone on the other side of the planet with a couple of clicks of a button - how is that isolated?

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Roger......do wish you'd make your mind up.

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That's the beauty of an open mind - I can see virtues in both aspects of the debate. This could explain why I still didnt know which way to vote until my pencil contacted the paper, yes, on your side of the issue.

By the way I am not quoting from the Express n Mail, but rather also observing that they are the source of most of the "banana laws" and indeed therefore lack credibility. I did like the tortoise law proposal though.

'Talking trade and soliciting naughties' isn't what it's about though is it? Maintaining working relationships with our continental neighbours in terms of defence, border control, anti-terrorism liaison and the actual business of trade delivery all remain, I believe, of ***** importance and the climate of mistrust which has developed since Brexit, between us and our European allies, will help none of those imo.

Rog...I don't think you can accuse me of having a closed mind as far as Brexit is concerned. I have shown respect for all but the most prejudiced of arguments and fully accept that all is not as it should be in the EU garden. I do sometimes struggle to remember that you actually voted 'Remain'...at your son's behest if I recall correctly...and you do seem to delight at times in 'hunting with the hounds and running with the hares'. All in favour of an 'open mind' but sometimes it seems to be just an excuse for sitting on the proverbial fence and remaining undecided.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

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Rog...I don't think you can accuse me of having a closed mind as far as Brexit is concerned.

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I wasn't accusing you of a closed mind, although I am not sure I would say the same about Tweedledee! The inference was entirely in your own mind ;D

Yes I freely admit to both fence sitting and the other thing best left unmentioned, being an avowed anti hunt person....

Oh yes, and I know its off topic, but are you going to QPR on Wednesday? Afraid to say I will be embedded behind enemy lines with a member of the opposition if you fancy a beer - see running with the hares or whatever again.

Hey...how come I get to be the 'dum' bit of the Tweedles? Does it make you the Mad Hatter ;D.
At least we agree on the anti-hunting thing, wonder how many posts that thread might generate?
I'd love to meet up for a beer but having just moved house and having a couple of other things to deal with at the moment my chances of making Loftus Road on a Wednesday night in December are on a par with Steve McClaren growing a fringe. Another time maybe, hope it's an enjoyable evening...I'll be relying on Radio Derby.