OT. Schools...normality and Coronavirus.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

I really don’t understand this attitude from an otherwise intelligent poster.

What has the fact that 56,000 die each year from a respiratory disease, or that 1800 die annually in traffic accidents got to do with anything?

The fact is we are in the midst of a pandemic which has killed 35,000 people in this country over the last nine weeks!

You can put forward an argument for fighting Coronavirus via a totally different route if you wish, but at least be honest about it, because what you really seem to be saying is that you accept a ‘survival of the fittest situation’ which sees a viral ‘culling’ of the old, the sick, those with underlying health conditions, the diabetic, overweight middle aged males, people of BAME origin etc.

If it were remotely possible to attribute political characteristics to a virus, it is rapidly assuming the appearance of something Hitler and the Nazis would have wholeheartedly approved of, but it seems most un-Swale like to be so hell bent on putting profit and economic recovery - however important that undoubtedly is - before people’s lives.

P.S. Tricky, not having a go, just interested. I thought you were ‘working’ as a volunteer for the NHS. Surely the health connotations you describe should prevent that.

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very true. But I have no choice but to fetch all my medications. I voulunteed to pick up local ones at the same time. It is the same risk. I fetch drop on door steps walk away.

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

The economic recovery is not about profit per se, though that helps. Its about preventing huge numbers of non covid deaths due to under-resourced NHS and other public services, due to huge hits against the public purse in falling tax revenue of various shades.

Economy doesn't work, taxes fall, expenditure must fall as the magic money tree has no leaves left after covid support has taken them.

Those extra subsequent deaths won't be counted as Covid deaths, but they will be down to the inability to restart post covid initial waves.

Sure we can all hunker down for a other 3, 6 months sat at home watching netflix, whatever but one day the bullet will need to be bitten. In 6 months we would walk into a devastated environment with all public services being massacred, hyperinflation as money is printed to keep the basics going etc etc.

Economically we can no more let covid overwhelm us than we could let it overwhelm the NHS 9 weeks ago. We have to avoid cuts to the NHS in the future when tax take may be down 25%

Or to put it in teacherspeak, if future deaths don't get through to you, a 25% cut in education budget, the inevitable job losses, increase in class sizes, slash and burn of SNC budgets etc, reduced quality education for all

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Very well put GP.
That is the point most of us are trying to make.

If you house is trying to catch fire with an electrical fault. You can keep throwing cups of water at it to stay safe.
Sooner or later, you are going to have deal with that problem head on, or when someone turns your water off. You're in the crapper.

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

The economic recovery is not about profit per se, though that helps. Its about preventing huge numbers of non covid deaths due to under-resourced NHS and other public services, due to huge hits against the public purse in falling tax revenue of various shades.

Economy doesn't work, taxes fall, expenditure must fall as the magic money tree has no leaves left after covid support has taken them.

Those extra subsequent deaths won't be counted as Covid deaths, but they will be down to the inability to restart post covid initial waves.

Sure we can all hunker down for a other 3, 6 months sat at home watching netflix, whatever but one day the bullet will need to be bitten. In 6 months we would walk into a devastated environment with all public services being massacred, hyperinflation as money is printed to keep the basics going etc etc.

Economically we can no more let covid overwhelm us than we could let it overwhelm the NHS 9 weeks ago. We have to avoid cuts to the NHS in the future when tax take may be down 25%

Or to put it in teacherspeak, if future deaths don't get through to you, a 25% cut in education budget, the inevitable job losses, increase in class sizes, slash and burn of SNC budgets etc, reduced quality education for all

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Why do you always have to do that, GP? You make a fair point and then make some silly ‘teacherspeak’ reference. Do you somehow think teachers are in some way ‘immune’ to all that’s going on. Would it be fair of me to say in ‘accountantspeak’ and then suggest you know the cost of everything but the value of nothing?

Where have I said we should all ‘hunker down for another 3 to 6 months sat at home watching Netflix’?
I want a return to work/normality as soon as it is SAFELY possible just as much as you. I haven’t put any sort of time frame on things but it won’t be possible for schools to return normally before September and I firmly believe that a reliable ‘test, track and trace’ system needs to be in place before any full return.

I can provide four scenarios to illustrate the point. The public school kids who are my near neighbours have now been told that they will not be returning to school until September but will have online lessons for the remainder of this term. My five year old Y1 grandchild is meant to be returning for a 50% timetable from June 2nd. My daughter is meant to be returning to work as a Y6 teacher working in Staffordshire on the same day and my grandchildren in the USA have been told, like the Scots, that there will be no return until next term.

Like the government you, Tricky and Swale seem to believe that there is a ‘magic date’ when the virus will have been overcome or the risk will have diminished to such an extent that everyone can return to school and work as normal.

There is, imo, no such thing. It will vary from country to country and region to region as I have described above, and it is best to let the experts within those countries and regions make the judgement call. I understand the economic argument but what could be worse than a second wave that starts the whole thing off again because we try and kick start things too quickly?

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

very true. But I have no choice but to fetch all my medications. I voulunteed to pick up local ones at the same time. It is the same risk. I fetch drop on door steps walk away.

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I admire your courage. Someone very close to me is in a similar position to you but probably a year behind you. They have been told to stay away from hospitals at all costs, even where, under normal circumstances, maintenance treatment would have been required.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

I admire your courage. Someone very close to me is in a similar position to you but probably a year behind you. They have been told to stay away from hospitals at all costs, even where, under normal circumstances, maintenance treatment would have been required.

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Yes I understand.
That is another issue reguarding hospitals that needs resolving. I still cannot for the life of me, understand why all the Covid they can, haven't been sent to the Nightingale hossies. As many COVID free hospitals as possible should have been prepared.

I have to run the gauntlet in a Sheffield hospital in July. I have no choice.
But the same replies to many long term ill. We cannot keep holding people away from treatment.
The Covid deaths, which to be fair are by far and wide older people. Will pale into nothing by comparison.
That isn't being harsh, just factual.

[QUOTE=ramAnag;39499140]Why do you always have to do that, GP? /QUOTE]

Oh, how I miss Roger Ramjet.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Why do you always have to do that, GP? You make a fair point and then make some silly ‘teacherspeak’ reference. Do you somehow think teachers are in some way ‘immune’ to all that’s going on. Would it be fair of me to say in ‘accountantspeak’ and then suggest you know the cost of everything but the value of nothing?

Where have I said we should all ‘hunker down for another 3 to 6 months sat at home watching Netflix’?
I want a return to work/normality as soon as it is SAFELY possible just as much as you. I haven’t put any sort of time frame on things but it won’t be possible for schools to return normally before September and I firmly believe that a reliable ‘test, track and trace’ system needs to be in place before any full return.

I can provide four scenarios to illustrate the point. The public school kids who are my near neighbours have now been told that they will not be returning to school until September but will have online lessons for the remainder of this term. My five year old Y1 grandchild is meant to be returning for a 50% timetable from June 2nd. My daughter is meant to be returning to work as a Y6 teacher working in Staffordshire on the same day and my grandchildren in the USA have been told, like the Scots, that there will be no return until next term.

Like the government you, Tricky and Swale seem to believe that there is a ‘magic date’ when the virus will have been overcome or the risk will have diminished to such an extent that everyone can return to school and work as normal.

There is, imo, no such thing. It will vary from country to country and region to region as I have described above, and it is best to let the experts within those countries and regions make the judgement call. I understand the economic argument but what could be worse than a second wave that starts the whole thing off again because we try and kick start things too quickly?

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Where have I ever said you said about hunkering down for 3 or 6 months? Just because you are paranoid....

The final paragraph was designed to illustrate what the school budgets of 2021 might look like if we don't do something, not silly, fatuous or personal - making a point in how it could impact an area you know well.

Do I think teachers are immune.... No, but it seems to me that you do, in that many other key customer facing staff work in the shadow of covid risk, but you don't think teachers should.

You can use accountantspeak in that way if you want, your suggestion of "the cost of everything..." isn't far off correct. I take no umbrage.

I get that you have family possibly exposed to this risk, and it's not just the "old teacher objecting in principal syndrome" - not a quote - and dont deny there is a risk, but that risk has been assessed by those more able to assess it than either of us are: unless you believe that a generation are being thrown to the lions on the back of the toss of a coin or the whim of a minister.

But if not now, when? Why is 1/9 a magic number for you? . When will your fear of a backlash by covid go away? Why does "test track and trace" prevent anyone catching it? It wouldn't stop a asymptomatic carrier passing it on until it had run rampant for however long. TTR (appropriate initials) may help figure out how you died but its not much use to the dead person.

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

very true. But I have no choice but to fetch all my medications. I voulunteed to pick up local ones at the same time. It is the same risk. I fetch drop on door steps walk away.

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Have a look at Pharmacy 2 U, medication delivered to your doorstep. It takes about a week and a half, so if its regular meds, then worthwhile signing up if they cover your area.

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Originally Posted by AdiSalisbury

Have a look at Pharmacy 2 U, medication delivered to your doorstep. It takes about a week and a half, so if its regular meds, then worthwhile signing up if they cover your area.

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Appreciate that Adi. But mine changes a lot. One blood test needs immediate change.

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

Where have I ever said you said about hunkering down for 3 or 6 months? Just because you are paranoid....

The final paragraph was designed to illustrate what the school budgets of 2021 might look like if we don't do something, not silly, fatuous or personal - making a point in how it could impact an area you know well.

Do I think teachers are immune.... No, but it seems to me that you do, in that many other key customer facing staff work in the shadow of covid risk, but you don't think teachers should.

You can use accountantspeak in that way if you want, your suggestion of "the cost of everything..." isn't far off correct. I take no umbrage.

I get that you have family possibly exposed to this risk, and it's not just the "old teacher objecting in principal syndrome" - not a quote - and dont deny there is a risk, but that risk has been assessed by those more able to assess it than either of us are: unless you believe that a generation are being thrown to the lions on the back of the toss of a coin or the whim of a minister.

But if not now, when? Why is 1/9 a magic number for you? . When will your fear of a backlash by covid go away? Why does "test track and trace" prevent anyone catching it? It wouldn't stop a asymptomatic carrier passing it on until it had run rampant for however long. TTR (appropriate initials) may help figure out how you died but its not much use to the dead person.

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It’s really got nothing to do with my family situation. I’m just illustrating via them because I am obviously fully familiar with their situation.
I could equally have mentioned another teacher friend I was talking too last night. Secondary school English teacher who is due, and will, return to work the week after next. She is concerned that her classroom is significantly smaller than the majority and yet she is expected to ‘house’ the same number of pupils. I don’t blame her...she’ll do it, just as she has worked hard, mostly from home since lockdown, trying to provide kids with the education they need. Will I be even more emphatic in keeping my distance from her once she returns to work? To bloody right I will.

When will my fear of a Covid backlash go away? I don’t know. I still haven’t given up hope of travelling to Spain in September, but not by plane. I’ve got tickets to four theatre productions before then, I won’t be using them, and once my grandchildren have gone back to school I, sadly, won’t be rushing within two metres of them either.

It will probably dramatically reduce once I see some evidence from other countries and regions that the virus is under ‘control’. Contrary to your suggestion, Test, Track and Trace (not sure where you got ‘TTR’ from) will be crucial, and MA’s ‘small steps’, to which I’d add ‘regional’, equally so.

Knowing the ‘cost of everything and the value of nothing’ is not something to be proud of, imo.