O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

I suspect that those such as Jehovah’s Witnesses might object on the grounds that vaccines are in conflict with their view of morality, or possibly vegans because of some alleged ingredient, the use of which is contrary to their particular moral compass.

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A side issue but interesting you didn’t mention Muslims. People appear scared to criticise Muslims on many fronts.

Back to the issue, fine on their part, let them stay grounded. And sorry to say I think there are vegans and there are ‘vegans’, the issue of being able to get off to Ibiza will IMO sort the men from the boys (and the women from the girls, being inclusive about it) on that score. I know quite a few ‘vegans’, you may too. Right, cynicism fix over, back to work...
thanks for straight answer to a straight question, not trying to catch you/anyone out, a bit too much of that going on

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

A side issue but interesting you didn’t mention Muslims. People appear scared to criticise Muslims on many fronts.

Back to the issue, fine on their part, let them stay grounded. And sorry to say I think there are vegans and there are ‘vegans’, the issue of being able to get off to Ibiza will IMO sort the men from the boys (and the women from the girls, being inclusive about it) on that score. I know quite a few ‘vegans’, you may too. Right, cynicism fix over, back to work...
thanks for straight answer to a straight question, not trying to catch you/anyone out, a bit too much of that going on

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Hang on...you doubted and asked me for examples of where accepting the vaccine conflicted with ‘morality’ and I provided them.
I’m not at all ‘scared’ of ‘criticising’ Muslims...I’m actually critical of many aspects of ALL organised religion but you usually take offence when I say that.
To be clear...I think the world would be better off without all those who believe in and follow the path of religious extremism and I make no exception for Muslims. It’s just that Muslims are so often the target of one or two on here (both visitors) that I thought I’d change the example and...to use your quote about vegans...there are Muslims and ‘Muslims’ and indeed Catholics and ‘Catholics’

And Buddhists and Buddhists

"To be clear...I think the world would be better off without all those who believe in and follow the path of religious extremism and I make no exception for Muslims."

It's been a while since I can say I wholeheartedly agree with rA. But here is that moment. Religion lies at the core of most of the wholesale slaughter of people in the name of "beliefs". That doesn't make everyone who is religious a bad guy, but the institutions themselves are fundamentally evil.

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

"To be clear...I think the world would be better off without all those who believe in and follow the path of religious extremism and I make no exception for Muslims."

It's been a while since I can say I wholeheartedly agree with rA. But here is that moment. Religion lies at the core of most of the wholesale slaughter of people in the name of "beliefs". That doesn't make everyone who is religious a bad guy, but the institutions themselves are fundamentally evil.

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Short lived agreement perhaps. I’m not sure (genuinely just don’t know) that you’re right that the ‘institutions themselves are fundamentally evil’. I suspect not...and many of the aims of those institutions are intrinsically good.
Maybe, as with so many things...from schools to politics to religion and probably beyond...it may just come down to the individuals and organisations who control those various things.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Hang on...you doubted and asked me for examples of where accepting the vaccine conflicted with ‘morality’ and I provided them.
I’m not at all ‘scared’ of ‘criticising’ Muslims...I’m actually critical of many aspects of ALL organised religion but you usually take offence when I say that.
To be clear...I think the world would be better off without all those who believe in and follow the path of religious extremism and I make no exception for Muslims. It’s just that Muslims are so often the target of one or two on here (both visitors) that I thought I’d change the example and...to use your quote about vegans...there are Muslims and ‘Muslims’ and indeed Catholics and ‘Catholics’

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You can name me, I won't be offended.
My issue with Muslims, is that they are easily offended.For that reason, they get away with many things and elements in this country dislike mentioning them, in case the dreaded "R" word comes out.
The child abuse is a national disgrace, that the Police/council/social services ignored for that very reason.
This country has laws that apply to all. Being connected to a religion does not excuse you of that.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Hang on...you doubted and asked me for examples of where accepting the vaccine conflicted with ‘morality’ and I provided them.
I’m not at all ‘scared’ of ‘criticising’ Muslims...I’m actually critical of many aspects of ALL organised religion but you usually take offence when I say that.
To be clear...I think the world would be better off without all those who believe in and follow the path of religious extremism and I make no exception for Muslims. It’s just that Muslims are so often the target of one or two on here (both visitors) that I thought I’d change the example and...to use your quote about vegans...there are Muslims and ‘Muslims’ and indeed Catholics and ‘Catholics’

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No need for ‘hang on’ I’m just looking for enlightenment. As I said, not trying to catch anyone out

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Short lived agreement perhaps. I’m not sure (genuinely just don’t know) that you’re right that the ‘institutions themselves are fundamentally evil’. I suspect not...and many of the aims of those institutions are intrinsically good.
Maybe, as with so many things...from schools to politics to religion and probably beyond...it may just come down to the individuals and organisations who control those various things.

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To offer my two pennorth and to use your words, GP is talking bollux. The good outweighs the bad in all religions I’ve encountered, although I ain’t blind to the fact that there’s some horrendous stuff been carried out in their name (or, more relevant in recent stories, under their cover)

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

No need for ‘hang on’ I’m just looking for enlightenment. As I said, not trying to catch anyone out

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But you did initially pick me up on the issue of morality conflicting with vaccination, asking if I’d used the right word...and followed that up by suggesting I might be ‘scared’ of citing the example of Muslims...hence the ‘hang on’.

I’m not and given the bad press they repeatedly seem to get I’m not sure how many others are either.

Personally, I'd ban all organised religion. I see them as institutionalised control mechanisms. Go back way before JC.The Egyptians had in excess of 2000 Gods. The Greeks and Romans both whittled that down to 12. Then came the Anno Domini period and there was but one for some religions. The indigenous peoples of Australia, New Zealand, North America, South America and parts of Africa all had multiple Gods/Spirits they worshipped and some still do worship the same ones. It was only at the close of WW2 that the Japanese Royal family were forced to tell the Japanese populace that the family wweren't, actually, Gods.

The "earthly representatives" of these organisated religions have always held a position of power only 2nd to the King/Qyeen/President/other head of state. They still do wield enormous power. They act in the best interests of their church/theology rather than that of their congregation.

People who are critical of Muslims shouldn't be acsued of racism BTW. Muslims follow an ideology/theology and are not a race.