OT. The futures Bright, the Futures Brexit!!!

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

did I say I was a lifelong Tory?

My voting habits have been

Tory 92 (my dad voted by proxy for me as I was on honeymoon!)
Labour 97 (corrupt tories)
Labour 01 (Doing OK)
Labour 05 (Hmm, benefit of the doubt)
Tory 10 (Labour bankrupted us)
Lib Dem 15 (thought they'd done well controlling the conservatories)
At the mo I will vote Lib Dem 20 or whenever (see 15, IMO they will form the opposition in 20)

Work that out!

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Blimey...after all that, you and I must have been the only two people, possibly in Derbyshire and almost certainly on this forum, who voted Lib Dem at the last election.

No you didn't say you were a lifelong Tory, it was an assumption based on what you said sometime ago about what and who you would be supporting in the current circumstances for which I apologise, although tbf I did at least add, 'of the one nation' type.

Not entirely off topic Roger...one of the problems with Brexit, imo, is that everything has been horribly oversimplified so that our immediate and long term economic future now hangs on the vote of many who thought they were making a protest vote against immigration and fancied a bit of flag waving. Likewise the obsession some have with benefit claimants is another over simplification. It is 'Sun' reader speak, 'we can see these scruffy, lazy people who contribute little so let's blame it all on them. We know many of the bosses and the self employed are getting away with much more and damaging our society by far more but it's too hard to go after them and they did work hard once so let's go after the underclass scroungers.

Until that populist mentality changes and we look beyond the seemingly obvious things will never change.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Blimey...after all that, you and I must have been the only two people, possibly in Derbyshire and almost certainly on this forum, who voted Lib Dem at the last election.

No you didn't say you were a lifelong Tory, it was an assumption based on what you said sometime ago about what and who you would be supporting in the current circumstances for which I apologise, although tbf I did at least add, 'of the one nation' type.

Not entirely off topic Roger...one of the problems with Brexit, imo, is that everything has been horribly oversimplified so that our immediate and long term economic future now hangs on the vote of many who thought they were making a protest vote against immigration and fancied a bit of flag waving. Likewise the obsession some have with benefit claimants is another over simplification. It is 'Sun' reader speak, 'we can see these scruffy, lazy people who contribute little so let's blame it all on them. We know many of the bosses and the self employed are getting away with much more and damaging our society by far more but it's too hard to go after them and they did work hard once so let's go after the underclass scroungers.

Until that populist mentality changes and we look beyond the seemingly obvious things will never change.

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I suspect we may never change then, either because people genuinely obsess about benefit cheats or because the media whip it up into a storm to (indirectly) sell advertising space.

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Originally Posted by roger_ramjet

I suspect we may never change then, either because people genuinely obsess about benefit cheats or because the media whip it up into a storm to (indirectly) sell advertising space.

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Which kind of reinforces the point made originally by Triz...that many people are all too happy to be told what to think by the media even though they don't necessarily recognise it as happening. Never was this more true than on the twin subjects of immigration and benefit claimants...two pet subjects of the Brexiteers.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Blimey...after all that, you and I must have been the only two people, possibly in Derbyshire and almost certainly on this forum, who voted Lib Dem at the last election.

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Almost the whole country to be fair....

Hope my disclosure shines a different light on some of my future rambles

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Almost the whole country to be fair....

Hope my disclosure shines a different light on some of my future rambles

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Slightly confusing that you're now looking for a 'right of centre' government...but I've usually seen you as a 'compassionate conservative' - if that's not too much of a paradox - albeit one wearing a cunning disguise at times.

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Originally Posted by roger_ramjet

So in summary most of the pro Brexit camp are anti scrounger whereas Mangara from the pro EU camp is more tolerant of benefit scroungers preferring their small crimes to the bigger ones of the well healed. Tweedleswale is conspicuously silent on the scrounger debate.

Im thinking EU nationals scrounging off our State Benefits must therefore be a huge bete noir to many (except Mangara who will be there at the Eurotunnel welcoming them off the train 😊😊😊)

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I can't be arsed to join in, I've heard it all before and both those who think the majority of people on benefits (though 50% or more of the welfare state goes on supporting the elderly, together with a huge chunk of the NHS budget - so maybe compulsory euthanasia for the sick and those who pissed their wages away instead of saving for a pension?) are to quote "scroungers" are not IMO worth debating with - sure you can always find an example of someone conning the system - whether its benefits, tax dodgers, immigrants, assyslum seekers, labour, tory, lib dem or UKIP they are all humans and therefore a proportion of them are going to be engaged in crooked or fraudalent activity - labelling them all as such according to ones prejudices is simply lazy and frankly makes the person look stupid!

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Originally Posted by swaledale

I can't be arsed to join in, I've heard it all before and both those who think the majority of people on benefits (though 50% or more of the welfare state goes on supporting the elderly, together with a huge chunk of the NHS budget - so maybe compulsory euthanasia for the sick and those who pissed their wages away instead of saving for a pension?) are to quote "scroungers" are not IMO worth debating with - sure you can always find an example of someone conning the system - whether its benefits, tax dodgers, immigrants, assyslum seekers, labour, tory, lib dem or UKIP they are all humans and therefore a proportion of them are going to be engaged in crooked or fraudalent activity - labelling them all as such according to ones prejudices is simply lazy and frankly makes the person look stupid!

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Now there's an idea - lets go the Soylent Green route and euthanasiaise them all to some nice twee music by Edvard Grieg. If there is some way to recycle the scroungers and unforesightful non pension savers into an energy source rather than food, even better. Maybe a bit of Pachelbel's Canon in D to help the medicine go down.

Then again once we have disposed of all these various types of cheats we wouldn't actually have many people left and so the energy crisis would no longer be of importance.

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

did I say I was a lifelong Tory?

My voting habits have been

Tory 92 (my dad voted by proxy for me as I was on honeymoon!)
Labour 97 (corrupt tories)
Labour 01 (Doing OK)
Labour 05 (Hmm, benefit of the doubt)
Tory 10 (Labour bankrupted us)
Lib Dem 15 (thought they'd done well controlling the conservatories)
At the mo I will vote Lib Dem 20 or whenever (see 15, IMO they will form the opposition in 20)

Work that out!

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2010 labour bankrupted us??? So they were running the states and europe as well presumably? So it wasn't dodgy deals and under capitlised banks that brought the finacila crash in 2008 then? And it wasn't Gordn brown's swift and decisive action which actually stopped this country going bankrupt?With an interpretation of facts like that I despair - especially as they were basically doing what the Tories wanted in light touch regulation who supported it by the way!

The to vote Lib Dem in 2015 (when the majority of the population saw them for the shifty lying deceitful *******s who reneged on their election promises just to gain power and a chance at changing the voting system and suffered political melt down as a result.

Voting lib Dem in 20, mm well I guess as you got the two previous elections wrong you may as ell go for a hat trick!

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Originally Posted by swaledale

2010 labour bankrupted us??? So they were running the states and europe as well presumably? So it wasn't dodgy deals and under capitlised banks that brought the finacila crash in 2008 then? And it wasn't Gordn brown's swift and decisive action which actually stopped this country going bankrupt?With an interpretation of facts like that I despair - especially as they were basically doing what the Tories wanted in light touch regulation who supported it by the way!

The to vote Lib Dem in 2015 (when the majority of the population saw them for the shifty lying deceitful *******s who reneged on their election promises just to gain power and a chance at changing the voting system and suffered political melt down as a result.

Voting lib Dem in 20, mm well I guess as you got the two previous elections wrong you may as ell go for a hat trick!

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Check the first seven words of post 1396. You just couldn't resist could you! Welcome back, its been quiet round here. By the way, I'd describe your persistent rants at those who dare not to share your quite narrow worldview as quite 'Trumpist', but I guess that will just prompt another rant so I won't

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Slightly confusing that you're now looking for a 'right of centre' government...but I've usually seen you as a 'compassionate conservative' - if that's not too much of a paradox - albeit one wearing a cunning disguise at times.

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I guess it might be confusing and my defence is that at least I a) think about it and b) respect other peoples' voting habits (unlike Swale's forum equiv of road rage, see above). I live amongst a wide friends and family circle of political bigots who have their voting habits firmly entrenched no matter what, and I thank God I'm not that way inclined.