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The concerning factor is the fact we are the worst team defensively in the championship and with our financial future looking bleak
Potentially we could start the championship next season with a very similar squad.
The honeymoon period has ended and the recent results are reflecting what this squad is truly like.
Nothing more than a very good league one team and without the required players next season we will soon find ourselves back there.
I think it will be too risky to spend much money. We simply don't get the crowds to push on. We do have some decent lads coming through. But nothing that will push us on. The young lads (on tne whole) arent eoefully letting us down. Thats the ones with experience. They way the older pros left Maglorie so exlpsed last week was pathetic. Next season will probably be very similar to this. We will be lucky to stay up. Right now we are no different than the side under Owen Coyle. Putting in the same performances. We haven't really improved. Infact now we conceed more. And have a much worse defence. Mainly down to the manager shipping 3 out in Jan and not bringing one in. We will stay up, and get around the same points we did last time we got relegated. Fine, we won't drop this season. We probably will next season though.Quote:
Originally Posted by robinrover
As for selling our best player. We simply wouldn't have got promotion without him. And we would most certainly be sat in the bottom 3 now if we hadn't had him this season. Nobody other than Graham and Mulgrew contribute anything going forward. Armstrong has had 4 good games where scored. The rest he's been poor. We have no players who can even get him into a game. So it's pointless having these flair players. It was pointless getting Rothwell in. As TM has refused to play him. Instead stick with something that just hasn't worked. I don't think he knows what to do being honest. We have one senior centre half in the club. Who is injured.
The concern is, we won't be building on what we have if we sell our only goal threat. Will TM not just go out and get more dross who he won't play again like last summer? Does he know how to spend money? His signings mainly haven't added to us. And we have been left weak in every area of the pitch. Selling the one good thing at our club isn't exactly exciting is it? I like your optimism Auks, I do. But Gladwin won't be the answer to any problem we have. Or Hart. Or Nuttall. And we are so painfully bad, that playing a young kid like Maglorie is risking destroying his confidence. Like TM has done with Brereton.
He is being paid to come up with solutions to problems.
But our position is no different from that of any of the clubs from, say, 12th to 18th. We have had a bad run recently, but others have had poor spells too, at various points. I bet if we went on fans' forums for QPR, Hull, Birmingham, Swansea and - above all - Stoke, we would find the same level of moaning - perhaps even at Derby!
I believe we have the core of a decent team, the promise of an unusually large number of talented youngsters, and the potential backing of Venky's to make three or four significant investments where required.
Like Despair, I don't particularly want promotion, anyway, but I accept that ambitious clubs desperately need to be in the PL for financial reasons.
Champs - I simply cannot credit the way you have turned on Mowbray. Can your opinion really have been turned upside down by seven weeks of poor results (that did include a three-nil win, anyway)?
"Weak in every area of the pitch" is a gross exaggeration. When I was away on holiday, I glanced at all the negative reactions, and then I watched a replay of the Bristol City game when I got back. They are seven places ahead of us, but I thought there was nothing at all between the teams, except that BC were a bit more ruthless in the tackle. (Funnily enough, they have had a poor spell in the last month too, although my cousin says they have played much better than their results suggest).
In several other games, our lack of confidence has cost us in the last ten minutes or so. I just don't accept that we are in terminal decline and miles behind the rest.
I am quite happy to sit back and see what happens in the summer. In the meantime, we can try out two or three other youngsters from a position of safety. I would expect us to pick up at least six points from our remaining fixtures, because three of the games are against mid-table teams, and we also have Bolton at home. An extra win somewhere in there would probably put us in about 14th place, which is exactly what I predicted at the start of the season. Hardly a disaster! The immediate problem is, I cannot see anything other than a defeat at Villa next weekend, which will no doubt be followed by another "Mowbray out!" firestorm.
I'm not saying I would want a return to the Prem. Unless we had some serious investment, and found a clever way round FFP. I'm not even sure if Venkys care one way or the other about their £116m debt? They are stupidly rich, and getting bigger year on year. So the rush to get them paid, maybe isn't in the immediate future as we think? If it is, we are in massive trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by AucklandRover
On the pitch, no matter how we dress it up, we are one of the poorest sides in this division. And exactly like you say, we play Villa away on Sat and we are all know exactly what will happen. So you can't really say that we are doing well? Or do have a solid core. We desperately need investment in this squad, and I believe, that's just for us to be mid-table. I don't think we will finish around 14th. And pre-season, personally I'd have accepted that, despite thinking we could be finished 10th or above. I think it will be lower than that. I hope they turn it round, and if that happens, great. I'm wrong. And we are heading forwards.
If we continue to put in displays like we have for several months now, then we will continue to drop down the table. And my concern is, will he actually get those required funds? Do we trust him with that budget? I'll state I'm happy for him to stay, and have the summer. Because of his job, overall since coming into the club. And being realistic about who else out there couldve done a better job? And who can get this current squad to perform better, and get more out of them. That was happening up to Feb. Since then it's just gone downhill rapidly. Again, my fear alone here. He may struggle to get that back again. And kick back on.
The concern for me is having seen Birmingham suffer the fate of FFP and with others likely to also suffer,it seems like our budget will be very minimal in order to fall in line
We will have to shop cheaply(free or loans)so expecting to find 4 good defenders on the cheap,is simply not going to happen and that's before finding a adequate replacement for Graham when he fades on the 65th-70th minute
This squad is not good enough and needs quality to bulk it out
Going into next season with what we have will not be good enough to survive.
I understand the concerns, Robin, but I still think we tend to forget everyone else. If we look at the other ten clubs on 47 points (our total), or below, four have picked up more points than us in the last five games; two have gained four points - the same as us; four have done worse. There are even two clubs in the top half who have acquired the same or fewer points than we have over that period.
In total, we see eight clubs who have done no better than us in that time.
I'm not playing down our poor defensive performances over the last seven weeks, but I think some fans ARE exaggerating them. I mentioned the Bristol City game, but the same points were valid for the Preston match. We conceded one goal and were the better team for large parts of the game, despite the fact that they are on an opposite type of run from us: 20 points out of a possible 24. It could even be argued that we were let down by not converting chances in that game, rather than by poor defending.
I also think it is wrong to say that Lenihan's absence has not been a factor.
We have Wharton, Magloire, Grayson, Platt, Carter and Charley Doyle in the U-23s - all promising centre-backs.
We are probably ok in midfield, although it would be brilliant to get an experienced playmaker (as long as he is not another Murphy or Whittingham). I'm not sure we can afford one, however.
Up front, a medium-term replacement for Graham, able to go straight into the team, is essential.
However, the obvious first priority is an experienced Hendry/Dann/Faz-style centre-half.
The left-back slot, I'm 50-50 on.
In other words, I don't think we're miles short of a stable, fair-to-middling Championship team. If we're looking beyond that, of course, it's a different ball-game altogether. A lot of things have to fall into place to get into the PL, and it's not just a question of money or the manager. I don't think it's even just about individual talent on paper, as Stoke and Derby have discovered this season. Sometimes, a team just comes together, for no clear and obvious single reason. Look at Leicester.
Pretty much agree Aucks.
I put this down to my BRFC ‘history’ of 55+ yrs.
The bulk of it involving lower league football, hence i hold or yearn no real ‘top flight’ aspirations.
Yes the JW era was incredible and goes without saying, but its left a sort of a curse.
We are different than all the other clubs involved in that respect .
And this very much magnified by our current hugely inept owners.
This reflects the overall expectancy levels of a modern generation that wants it all and wants it now.
That is not meant as a personal swipe towards Champs and Robin 😇 its a ‘overview’ of a whole swathe of populace. If i had been say in my ***** in the nineties who's to say i wouldnt think the same.
For me the Prem is a manufactured illusion illustrating only winners deserve respect and attention.
I was asked some time back over my user name in it not being changed, all i would say is open any paper any day of any week to scan the news! And theres your answer .
Rant over.
*PNE 4 - Rovers 1
*Wigan 3 - Rovers 1
*Leeds 3 - Rovers 2
*Sheff Utd 3 - Rovers 0
Reading 2 - Rovers 2
*Brentford 5 - Rovers 2
*Rovers 0 - Boro 1
*Rotherham 3 - Rovers 1
*Sheff Wed 4 - Rovers 2
I went to all these games above, apart from Reading away.
I do get what you guys are saying. And I also get how some people can just take a back seat. It doesn't affect them.
It affects me, mainly financially. And time. I spend time and money and go without, so I can attend these games, to support us. Some of those performances above have been tough to accept. Some really pathetic displays.
I can understand that some fans don't get as involved as others. Aucks, I do understand your outlook on football. I really do, even though its not how I am. Can you see it from my POV? I am involved, I am paying my money, I am travelling all over the place to support the lads. I am not sat at games moaning, At games I am vocal, I am supportive. I am actually doing everything I can as a fan. Surley you can understand I have got just a bit fed up with turning up, and getting a hiding wherever. Its depressing, and of late, just feels like a waste of money. As I cant help but think they could be doing a lot better. We have lost lots more games than the ones I mention above. But I can accept those, as part of football. Some of those performances (not necessarily the scorelines) simply aren't good enough. I am 42, I am not a ch8ild. I have suffered disappointment on so many occasions. In my life, the Prem win was over 25 years ago now. That's a long long time. I was still at college. I am not living back at that point. I don't expect that much. I would even accept us being a midtable Champ side. I don't even think we are that good when all the dust settles. Its been a disappointment. And being let down, is all part of being a football fan.
I have just got a bit bored of seeing us lose, easily. Without any kind of fight. I just think I could be doing something better with my time, and while you may not feel the way I do after we lose yet another games, and turn in yet another poor display, I can tell you I am getting fed up with it. Its a bit depressing. Therefore, I probably wont carry on. I know quite a few Rovers fans who feel the same. Look at our crowds?
I am not demanding anyone gets sacked, I am not slating anyone one person individually. I am just saying I like many other Rovers fans, am just a bit bored with it all. We aren't heading anywhere. Even if we had a bit of pride, I could accept that. Week after week, after turning up at places like Rotherham and getting stuffed, and not learning from our mistakes, you lose that pride, we spent 12 months building back up.
And as for blaming all this on defence? I'm not. I said we are poor all over the pitch.
I said last summer, leaving Raya as the only keeper with no back-up is silly. And we would suffer. We have suffered, he's struggled at times. And we have no back-up who TM trusts. We are weak in the keeper position. One of the most key.
Defence - we are weak. Mulgrew, Rodwell aren't centre halves. Meaning we have no senior CH in the club. Who is injured. Left back we are poor. RB we are ok, but some weeks we are babdly exposed. Look at our GD, we are wek in this area. Probably the weakest in the league.
Midfield - we have scored 3 goals from Midfield all season. Nowhere near good enough. And they do not cover the defence. Not effective, not good enough.
Up front - again we started well. Dack took this division by storm. Since Jan he has barley done a thing. Graham has been good, not scored nearly enough goals, and due to his age, he is blowing after 70 mins. Armstrong other than one month, has been poor. Brereton, he may come good? This season, he has been a complete disaster. Nuttall has been ok? But .....not sold on him.
Up front you could argue is our strongest position. But since end of Jan, have been poor. Taking the one positive, the one game vrs Wigan in complete isolation.
Yep, I would maintain we are pretty weak in all areas of the pitch. The league table doesn't lie. And no doubt we will carry on losing games, starting away at Villa on sat. And that is a concern, for next season. As we may well be scrapping around in the basement bargins for players to improve this poor squad. It needs investment, quite a lot. And may not get it?
Playing young players in this current side is risky imo. Maglorie was left so badly exposed by senior pro's away at Sheff Wed that I don't think its fair to play them. It will just destroy the confidence of a kid. TM has pretty much destroyed Brereton as he didn't know where to play him? Then insisted on playing him, when his confidence was rock bottom. I am not even sure Travis is learning anything right now? He isn't getting better, he is getting worse. I just worry he is going to ruin these young lads, as putting them in this team, with older pro's who are just not doing it, is risky.
I really don't know what the answer is? But my hunch is to leave him to it, give him time to address the mounting issues? And try to support him financially. But the more we spend, the more we risk. And I just hope, based on nothing, that things come back together.
The thought of next season doesn't fill me full of pride, or anticipation. So I have already made the decision to not renew my season ticket. And will go as and when. And that is based soley on what I have seen in front of me, on the pitch.
Also, the position we find ourselves in as a club now, is not the same as we found ourselves in 1991 when Walker first started to pump money in. The similarities are, we are a lower mid-table club. With no real fans base that will grow. So we are stagnant on that aspect. We aren't growing. We aren't attracting new fans. We are actually losing fans, like me. And trust me when I say, of all the people I see regularly at games, home and away, I am not the only one feeling like this. We aren't the floating fans. We are the ones that stayed loyal, even down in the 3rd level of English football. Something must've gone drastically wrong to be losing our support. Something that just cant be ignored.
We have just announced £16.8m losses in just one financial year. Adding to the £100m we are already in debt. On the pitch, right now, even our manager states we aren't good enough. Even he admits we are defending woefully, even he admits he is pulling his hair out? We pay him a load of money to feel like that. I don't believe he himself, would turn up and pay to watch this crap he turns out every week. Which is probably why TM is naming individual players who have let him down so badly.
We are not this little club, with no real debt, sat playing in a old falling down stadium. We have a new stadium, which has costs to run. Just to keep open. We have an expensive academy. Do you guys know that Venky's have spent £3m in the past 12 months, maintaining that academy alone? Never mind wages, transfers, etc etc
To service the debt, its pretty clear where we need to be? Even if its just for one season, where the owners get their money back. Or at least a high % of it?
That isn't comparable to anything our club have ever done historically. And people like me, are aware. And also aware we are a hell of alot closer to relegation that we are going up. I'd say we have our work cut out just staying up next season. Which means more debt, more mounting debt. No investment, and I'm afraid its back to places like MK Dons. And home crowds of less than 5/6k. Thats pretty similar to our past. Almost all our history. Only we have never had so much debt, that is crippling us as a club. Its a sad state of affairs.