£10m for Bogle

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Originally Posted by mistaram

Christie is a better defender now

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Christie was excellent in his first season with us, imo, mista. Bogle likewise and Wisdom too, before he returned to Liverpool in 2014.
There seems little doubt that certain ‘fans’, especially before that section of the stadium was given over to away fans, delighted in dishing it out to our players, and wide players - along with the ‘keeper - are always particularly susceptible to such campaigns/comments.

I saw it happen to Malone last season and although he’s anything but a favourite of mine it just doesn’t help.

Again imo, the only thing players deserve criticism for during a match is lack of effort. Mistakes, misplaced passes and dropped crosses etc will always generate the collective sound of disappointment...that is inevitable, but singling players out for abuse is totally counterproductive.
I believe that is what happened to Cyrus Christie and it does make you question the motivation of certain loud mouthed ‘supporters’ who feel free to shout anything from the safety of the stand.

I know Cantona was wrong but there’s a part of me which applauds him, and I’d quite like to see a couple of those most responsible for such personal attacks left alone in a room with Cyrus Christie...I doubt they’d have quite so much to say.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Christie was excellent in his first season with us, imo, mista. Bogle likewise and Wisdom too, before he returned to Liverpool in 2014.
There seems little doubt that certain ‘fans’, especially before that section of the stadium was given over to away fans, delighted in dishing it out to our players, and wide players - along with the ‘keeper - are always particularly susceptible to such campaigns/comments.

I saw it happen to Malone last season and although he’s anything but a favourite of mine it just doesn’t help.

Again imo, the only thing players deserve criticism for during a match is lack of effort. Mistakes, misplaced passes and dropped crosses etc will always generate the collective sound of disappointment...that is inevitable, but singling players out for abuse is totally counterproductive.
I believe that is what happened to Cyrus Christie and it does make you question the motivation of certain loud mouthed ‘supporters’ who feel free to shout anything from the safety of the stand.

I know Cantona was wrong but there’s a part of me which applauds him, and I’d quite like to see a couple of those most responsible for such personal attacks left alone in a room with Cyrus Christie...I doubt they’d have quite so much to say.

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Don't agree with that RA, if my relatively hard earned money goes towards the riches of a player who does something ****ing useless, I reserve the right to shout 'you're ****ing useless!' at him. In the same way that if I was watching my village side, I wouldn't...

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Don't agree with that RA, if my relatively hard earned money goes towards the riches of a player who does something ****ing useless, I reserve the right to shout 'you're ****ing useless!' at him. In the same way that if I was watching my village side, I wouldn't...

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Each to their own Andy. I’m with R59 on this one.
Quite surprised at you actually...shouting ‘you’re ****ing useless!’ at anyone in a performance related situated, seldom - if ever - helps imo.
We all know of individuals, from the local cricket/rugby club to the very top flight of football, who are ‘confidence players’ - at a very low level I was definitely one of them - and I’ve never known a dose of public humiliation to help.

A collective WTF at a blunder is one thing. Concerted groans match after match when the ball even approaches the targeted player are something totally different and shouldn't happen, IMO.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Each to their own Andy. I’m with R59 on this one.
Quite surprised at you actually...shouting ‘you’re ****ing useless!’ at anyone in a performance related situated, seldom - if ever - helps imo.
We all know of individuals, from the local cricket/rugby club to the very top flight of football, who are ‘confidence players’ - at a very low level I was definitely one of them - and I’ve never known a dose of public humiliation to help.

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I said I reserve the right, I’m not a swearer verbally as it happens, never have been. I think MA in the post below yours makes my point better than I did

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Each to their own Andy. I’m with R59 on this one.
Quite surprised at you actually...shouting ‘you’re ****ing useless!’ at anyone in a performance related situated, seldom - if ever - helps imo.
We all know of individuals, from the local cricket/rugby club to the very top flight of football, who are ‘confidence players’ - at a very low level I was definitely one of them - and I’ve never known a dose of public humiliation to help.

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So what your saying rA is if a player who is earning more in a week than some fans earn in 6 months or a year, the fans shouldnt express their displeasure because the poor little diddums confidence might be knocked?

Really? If they haven't got what it takes to play in front of a crowd, many of whom, especially opposition fans will be hostile, then IMO they should stick to earning £500 a week in non league as they clearly haven't go what it takes to play at a higher level!

If your prepared to take the relatively high wages you know your playing (normally) in front of a crowd of thousands of people, who are "instant experts" and will give verbals if you play badly.

Personally other than the odd groan or shout of exasperation I'm not one for giving verbals to an individual player, but thats been the case with football for many years - Cantona was given foul personal abuse rather than criticism incidentally.

Its trite to say the "boo boys" have dented their form, the plain fact is they are inconsistent players, the real reasons range from they are not good enough, they aren't single minded enough, they dont work hard enough, they are distracted by boozing, gambling etc, they aren't played in their best position, they don't like, get on with the manager, the tactics don't suit them etc.

Yes they may be a "confidence player" but if the crowd makes them play badly, then they clearly aren't cut out for a career in professional football.

It has ever been the case that football fans provide verbal approval or disapproval of a player and teams performance, if one or the other is consistently crap then the fans will let them know it (or at least a certain section will).

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Originally Posted by swaledale

So what your saying rA is if a player who is earning more in a week than some fans earn in 6 months or a year, the fans shouldnt express their displeasure because the poor little diddums confidence might be knocked?

Really? If they haven't got what it takes to play in front of a crowd, many of whom, especially opposition fans will be hostile, then IMO they should stick to earning £500 a week in non league as they clearly haven't go what it takes to play at a higher level!

If your prepared to take the relatively high wages you know your playing (normally) in front of a crowd of thousands of people, who are "instant experts" and will give verbals if you play badly.

Personally other than the odd groan or shout of exasperation I'm not one for giving verbals to an individual player, but thats been the case with football for many years - Cantona was given foul personal abuse rather than criticism incidentally.

Its trite to say the "boo boys" have dented their form, the plain fact is they are inconsistent players, the real reasons range from they are not good enough, they aren't single minded enough, they dont work hard enough, they are distracted by boozing, gambling etc, they aren't played in their best position, they don't like, get on with the manager, the tactics don't suit them etc.

Yes they may be a "confidence player" but if the crowd makes them play badly, then they clearly aren't cut out for a career in professional football.

It has ever been the case that football fans provide verbal approval or disapproval of a player and teams performance, if one or the other is consistently crap then the fans will let them know it (or at least a certain section will).

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Take your point to an extent Swale, but ultimately what they’re earning has little to do with it, imo.

What opposition fans shout isn’t really the same either, but there’s a clue in the word ‘supporters’. They’re meant to support...so while I agree that footballers are paid far too much, placing sympathy in short supply, I repeat...however frustrating the performance...is telling someone what a ‘****ing useless ****’ they are actually going to benefit the situation?

Imo...no...and for that reason, however disappointed I may frequently have been, I think the only players I’ve personally singled out for match day abuse/criticism have been Paul Kitson, Claude Davis and Gary Teale...all because, imo, they were idle and uncommitted ‘take the money and hide’ merchants. Didn’t help at all of course.

P.S. Andy, MA isn’t making your point ‘better’ than you...he’s surely making a completely different point.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Take your point to an extent Swale, but ultimately what they’re earning has little to do with it, imo.

What opposition fans shout isn’t really the same either, but there’s a clue in the word ‘supporters’. They’re meant to support...so while I agree that footballers are paid far too much, placing sympathy in short supply, I repeat...however frustrating the performance...is telling someone what a ‘****ing useless ****’ they are actually going to benefit the situation?

Imo...no...and for that reason, however disappointed I may frequently have been, I think the only players I’ve personally singled out for match day abuse/criticism have been Paul Kitson, Claude Davis and Gary Teale...all because, imo, they were idle and uncommitted ‘take the money and hide’ merchants. Didn’t help at all of course.

P.S. Andy, MA isn’t making your point ‘better’ than you...he’s surely making a completely different point.

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Ah so it depends upon your individual assessment of a player then? Either your against fans expressing their disapproval of a player or your not. You can't justify certain players because in your opinion they didn't try! Because evryone could use that justification their views of which players weren't trying or were "lazy" being different of course!

For whats its worth I don't believe any player at championship level is "lazy" or doesn't try, any decent manager would'nt play them for a start!

The only reason I mention the wages they earn is that they get those for performing in front of an audience, it goes with the job!

As for targeting a player, well surely a manager has the gumption to take a badly performing player out of the firing line? But does it help to traget a player? Not sure it does, but then if they are consistently crap who can blame the paying punters for expressing their opinion?

Quoth rA "I repeat...however frustrating the performance...is telling someone what a ‘****ing useless ****’ they are actually going to benefit the situation?"

Remember this next time you post on a political thread about how useless out PM is, or stand charged with double standards

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Christie was excellent in his first season with us, imo, mista. Bogle likewise and Wisdom too, before he returned to Liverpool in 2014.
There seems little doubt that certain ‘fans’, especially before that section of the stadium was given over to away fans, delighted in dishing it out to our players, and wide players - along with the ‘keeper - are always particularly susceptible to such campaigns/comments.

I saw it happen to Malone last season and although he’s anything but a favourite of mine it just doesn’t help.

Again imo, the only thing players deserve criticism for during a match is lack of effort. Mistakes, misplaced passes and dropped crosses etc will always generate the collective sound of disappointment...that is inevitable, but singling players out for abuse is totally counterproductive.
I believe that is what happened to Cyrus Christie and it does make you question the motivation of certain loud mouthed ‘supporters’ who feel free to shout anything from the safety of the stand.

I know Cantona was wrong but there’s a part of me which applauds him, and I’d quite like to see a couple of those most responsible for such personal attacks left alone in a room with Cyrus Christie...I doubt they’d have quite so much to say.

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RA what happened with Christie as he posted on social media "that I'm the best right back in the Championship " so every mistake he made fans pounced . Afraid if you let what fans say affect your game ,you are in the wrong profession Football is a ruthless profession no place for feint hearted He went to Boro and it didn't work out there .But at Fulham he looks a very good full back now Watched him in the playoffs and the final very impressed