Redemption for Millwall.....

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Take your point...but maybe we need to question the definition of ‘Patriot’. A real ‘patriot’ would surely want to see their country achieve the best for all its citizens and recognise that questioning/demonstrating against a nation’s flaws is not unpatriotic.

I accept your second paragraph but isn’t asking such questions the best way to wake up ‘mild mannered middle England’.

Have you watched ‘The Crown’? Didn’t expect to enjoy it but it’s surprisingly good. I know it’s a drama and not a documentary, but presumably much is rooted in fact otherwise there’d be law suits flying left, right and centre. Interesting how appalled, as head of State and the Commonwealth, the Queen was at Thatcher’s reluctance to enforce anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa.
Thankfully the Queen won the day and I doubt anyone questioned her patriotism.

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#1. I think we all agree that ending racism on a global basis is a near impossible task. If there is one more difficult task than this in the world today, though, it would be to get Americans to redefine patriotism. In many ways the two issues go hand in hand.

#2. Asking the questions might be worth while, repeatedly ramming it down people's throats isn't. Remember as a 14 year old when your Mum kept telling you to tidy your room: so naturally you wouldn't. (or maybe you did!)? My perception is that people see the gesture, think "what can I do" the immensity of the question leaving them unable to answer it.

Racism exists in every corner of the world, one way or another, its not just white on black but, by and large, majority v minority wherever you are, czech v slovak, tutsi v hutu, all of former Yugoslavia, the list is endless: and to be callous, a few guys wrongfully killed in the US dwarfs into insignificance when compared to the millions killed in Rwanda and other ethnic cleansing epicentres. But hey, that's not as populist as one bloke in Minnesota, or LA or Kentucky or wherever that you can tag with a name, and the overpaid stars of football cannot drink the milk of self satisfied smugness without looking at the really big issues.

#3 No

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

#1. I think we all agree that ending racism on a global basis is a near impossible task. If there is one more difficult task than this in the world today, though, it would be to get Americans to redefine patriotism. In many ways the two issues go hand in hand.

#2. Asking the questions might be worth while, repeatedly ramming it down people's throats isn't. Remember as a 14 year old when your Mum kept telling you to tidy your room: so naturally you wouldn't. (or maybe you did!)? My perception is that people see the gesture, think "what can I do" the immensity of the question leaving them unable to answer it.

Racism exists in every corner of the world, one way or another, its not just white on black but, by and large, majority v minority wherever you are, czech v slovak, tutsi v hutu, all of former Yugoslavia, the list is endless: and to be callous, a few guys wrongfully killed in the US dwarfs into insignificance when compared to the millions killed in Rwanda and other ethnic cleansing epicentres. But hey, that's not as populist as one bloke in Minnesota, or LA or Kentucky or wherever that you can tag with a name, and the overpaid stars of football cannot drink the milk of self satisfied smugness without looking at the really big issues.

#3 No

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Nobody said it would be easy...no reason to just roll over and let racism win though, is it?

I do sometimes think people can’t do right for doing wrong. If the BLM supporters stick at it they’re being tiresome and contributing to ‘good cause fatigue’...if they give up it was just another ‘token gesture’ that lasted a few months and achieved nothing.

but, by and large, you miss my point. We are all getting antsy about a handful of killings and the world has gone BLM mad over it. Yet in Rwanda in the mid 90's possibly a million people, largely civilians, were killed and several hundred thousand rapes took place in an ethnic cleansing exercise - I don't remember one sports person, or indeed any "celebrity" speaking out about this, no mass protests at football matches even. Outside the regular news channels and a few charity appeals, nothing. I know two wrongs don't make a right, but where is the sense of proportionality? I'm sure I do not need to point out that both sides were black in this genocide: so I guess black lives just didn't matter to black people back then, or what?

I would just like to add that our fans have received support from across the football community and in the press from figures such as Simon Jordan, Richard Little john etc. Millwall fans are not racist, in the last 10 years our fans have chosen the best player of the year a black footballer 5 times. But we object kneeling to the BLM, a political movement on the far left. Keep politics OFF the pitch.

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Originally Posted by claw84

All I can say is that Millwall are leading the way, tonight Lions players will stand together with arms linked in a show of solidarity, no more kneeling on the ground, we endorse racial equality but not in a subservient way.

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If that’s the case, that’s a good approach for the right reason. Endorse equality of all kinds yes, submit to thought control no.

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

but, by and large, you miss my point. We are all getting antsy about a handful of killings and the world has gone BLM mad over it. Yet in Rwanda in the mid 90's possibly a million people, largely civilians, were killed and several hundred thousand rapes took place in an ethnic cleansing exercise - I don't remember one sports person, or indeed any "celebrity" speaking out about this, no mass protests at football matches even. Outside the regular news channels and a few charity appeals, nothing. I know two wrongs don't make a right, but where is the sense of proportionality? I'm sure I do not need to point out that both sides were black in this genocide: so I guess black lives just didn't matter to black people back then, or what?

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I’m not entirely sure what your point is, GP. Of course the situation in Rwanda was horrendous as were the Yugoslav Wars, the situation in Libya or Yemen or indeed any Civil War...but sports stars aren’t really likely to be able to act in a way which impacts those situations.
They are, by their actions, likely to be able to draw attention to the institutionalised racism that exists in the U.S.A, the UK and other areas of the world and, because sport is an area where - on the pitch at least - ethnic barriers have pretty much disappeared, it seems particularly appropriate for them to do so imo.

We will agree to differ

Positive reaction from the Lions' fans as well.

... and then you get that 4th official in Paris....... we still have a long way to go.

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Positive reaction from the Lions' fans as well.

... and then you get that 4th official in Paris....... we still have a long way to go.

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But it appears he's been strapped to the ducking stool for using the very word (black) that we just lost an FA official for NOT using...

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

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But it appears he's been strapped to the ducking stool for using the very word (black) that we just lost an FA official for NOT using...

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Do tell AF. I've not seen owt on that.