It's ooooor oil

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Originally Posted by Returnofrros

Just got a new central heating system installed and loft insulation from warmer homes scotland......100% grant.

Anyway it was either gas boiler and radiators, ground source heat pump, air source heat pump or solar panels.

I face south so although I'd just prefer a gas boiler and radiators I thought they would want one of the other 3 in exchange for the grant.

Solar panels ruled out as not large enough area of suitable roof, air source ruled out as you only get air source if you have not got heating or currently have electric heating, ground source ruled out as within 25 yards of a water course.....I never asked.

Delighted with new system but it makes me wonder if you can't go green for this that or the next reason how this will all pan out.

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I deal with this stuff for my employer and we are swimming in funds to go green,but in most cases still the gas fired boiler is still the preferred option at the moment,you dodged a bullet with air source …very temperamental at least the system we had was,I would doubt GSHP would be viable on one domestic dwelling ,if you have a row of maybe 10 houses to gather the heat collectively.

Solar would only heat hot water I would assume and PV to supply power but that seems to have fallen off the green radar at the moment,we’re now getting info on hydrogen boilers going forward,biggest pain is supplying power to EV chargers as the SG keep throwing money at us to install them in all our sites….a lot of people making green noises but seems to be a space between infrastructure and quality systems just in my experience…..

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Originally Posted by Returnofrros

Greens arnt really greens more the anti woman pro men in frocks lower the age of consent party.

Boy that just left gave a fantastic insight into their bullying and corruption of our children.

****ing warped

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Was that the MSP Wightman.
When the tolls were removed from the road bridges throughout Scotland around 2008 including the Tay Road Bridge Patrick Harvie the leader of the Greens was ‘bumping his gums’ stating that this decision would cause more pollution. I sent him an email suggesting that he travelled to Dundee where we could meet up at the foot of Gellatly Street where you could smell the fumes from the vehicles queuing up at tolls prior to crossing the Tay Road Bridge. I never received a reply from Patrick Harvie because ‘words are cheap’ and he never travels North of a line between Glasgow and Edinburgh.

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Originally Posted by Mudskipper

I deal with this stuff for my employer and we are swimming in funds to go green,but in most cases still the gas fired boiler is still the preferred option at the moment,you dodged a bullet with air source …very temperamental at least the system we had was,I would doubt GSHP would be viable on one domestic dwelling ,if you have a row of maybe 10 houses to gather the heat collectively.

Solar would only heat hot water I would assume and PV to supply power but that seems to have fallen off the green radar at the moment,we’re now getting info on hydrogen boilers going forward,biggest pain is supplying power to EV chargers as the SG keep throwing money at us to install them in all our sites….a lot of people making green noises but seems to be a space between infrastructure and quality systems just in my experience…..

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Mudskipper, thanks for your comments. I have been looking at some Net Zero Carbon websites and I can't get away from the feeling that this whole initiative is some kind of confidence trick. There was a table where the payback of the investment via annual savings that was just crazy. Some improvements just didn't justify the expenditure. The bit that struck me was why would you look at savings in terms of cash instead of how much carbon you might be saving.

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Originally Posted by Returnofrros

Just got a new central heating system installed and loft insulation from warmer homes scotland......100% grant.

Anyway it was either gas boiler and radiators, ground source heat pump, air source heat pump or solar panels.

I face south so although I'd just prefer a gas boiler and radiators I thought they would want one of the other 3 in exchange for the grant.

Solar panels ruled out as not large enough area of suitable roof, air source ruled out as you only get air source if you have not got heating or currently have electric heating, ground source ruled out as within 25 yards of a water course.....I never asked.

Delighted with new system but it makes me wonder if you can't go green for this that or the next reason how this will all pan out.

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This is a subject that I know a bit about because from 2004 until 30th November 2006 I was a member of the Islay Energy Trust steering group. On 1st December 2006 Islay Energy Trust came into being with the steering group being disbanded the night before.
Ideally solar panels should be installed on an area of roof that is south west facing and there has to be enough space for a minimum of 2.8KW of solar panels. However there is a house in the former Elgin Terrace area of Dundee which has solar panels on the roof which are facing East. Goodness knows which firm installed these solar panels but they must have been desperate for a sale.
A ground source heat pump is very expensive to install and you need a large garden to do so. Ideally ground source heat pumps should be installed when a new housing development is being built.
About 15 years ago a housing association built a small housing development in Bowmore, Isle of Islay and ground source heat pumps were installed when the houses were being constructed with taxpayers money paying for the cost of the development.
However there was one small problem. The contractors installing the ground source heat pumps made a mistake which resulted in the houses being freezing cold in the winter months and boiling hot during the summer months.
The contractors had installed the ground source heat pumps the wrong way round.
I only found out about this mistake as I knew the local electrician on Islay who was awarded the contract to fix the ground source heat pumps to ensure that they worked at the correct time. The housing association attempted to cover up this fiasco as one of the Argyll and Bute Councillors on the board of this housing association lives on Islay and represented the Kintyre and the Islands constituency.
Air source heat pumps. Several weeks ago I read an article in the Sunday Times newspaper about how long the savings from installing ‘green’ equipment to help save the planet such as solar panels, insulating your attic and hot water tank would take to recoup the cost of your outlay.
According to the article an air source heat pump is £68 per year more expensive to run than a gas boiler.
I know several people on Islay who about ten years ago installed an air source heat pump. I do not know how successful they have been but the fact that I have not heard anyone boasting that they have saved a fortune using it compared to an oil fired boiler (there is no mains gas on the island) makes me think that air source pumps are not all they are cracked up to be.
It had an interesting time as a member of the Islay Energy Trust steering group seeing how much money was squandered on ‘green’ initiatives which never happened.

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Originally Posted by BCram

Mudskipper, thanks for your comments. I have been looking at some Net Zero Carbon websites and I can't get away from the feeling that this whole initiative is some kind of confidence trick. There was a table where the payback of the investment via annual savings that was just crazy. Some improvements just didn't justify the expenditure. The bit that struck me was why would you look at savings in terms of cash instead of how much carbon you might be saving.

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Saving carbon is not going to pay the bills but saving money will.
You are correct that this Net Zero Carbon is just a con.
I can remember when environmentalists were panicking about the hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica but that seems to have been quietly forgotten about as has acid rain which was killing trees in the U.K. including Scotland.

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Originally Posted by islaydarkblue

This is a subject that I know a bit about because from 2004 until 30th November 2006 I was a member of the Islay Energy Trust steering group. On 1st December 2006 Islay Energy Trust came into being with the steering group being disbanded the night before.
Ideally solar panels should be installed on an area of roof that is south west facing and there has to be enough space for a minimum of 2.8KW of solar panels. However there is a house in the former Elgin Terrace area of Dundee which has solar panels on the roof which are facing East. Goodness knows which firm installed these solar panels but they must have been desperate for a sale.
A ground source heat pump is very expensive to install and you need a large garden to do so. Ideally ground source heat pumps should be installed when a new housing development is being built.
About 15 years ago a housing association built a small housing development in Bowmore, Isle of Islay and ground source heat pumps were installed when the houses were being constructed with taxpayers money paying for the cost of the development.
However there was one small problem. The contractors installing the ground source heat pumps made a mistake which resulted in the houses being freezing cold in the winter months and boiling hot during the summer months.
The contractors had installed the ground source heat pumps the wrong way round.
I only found out about this mistake as I knew the local electrician on Islay who was awarded the contract to fix the ground source heat pumps to ensure that they worked at the correct time. The housing association attempted to cover up this fiasco as one of the Argyll and Bute Councillors on the board of this housing association lives on Islay and represented the Kintyre and the Islands constituency.
Air source heat pumps. Several weeks ago I read an article in the Sunday Times newspaper about how long the savings from installing ‘green’ equipment to help save the planet such as solar panels, insulating your attic and hot water tank would take to recoup the cost of your outlay.
According to the article an air source heat pump is £68 per year more expensive to run than a gas boiler.
I know several people on Islay who about ten years ago installed an air source heat pump. I do not know how successful they have been but the fact that I have not heard anyone boasting that they have saved a fortune using it compared to an oil fired boiler (there is no mains gas on the island) makes me think that air source pumps are not all they are cracked up to be.
It had an interesting time as a member of the Islay Energy Trust steering group seeing how much money was squandered on ‘green’ initiatives which never happened.

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Islay ,the timescales you are referring to are probably correct however they really only need UV to operate nowadays so which elevation they are mounted isn’t such a big issue ,new build now have 30% renewables which is usually solar and I have seen them on NE facing roofs.

On one of our large sites the savings from GSHP were genuinely unbelievable compared to what we had ,payback was estimated at 11 years and it broke even within 4 but that is a huge site not domestic ,air source in theory is great basically reverse refrigeration but as I said the installation was horrendous maybe better now…..

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Originally Posted by islaydarkblue

Saving carbon is not going to pay the bills but saving money will.
You are correct that this Net Zero Carbon is just a con.
I can remember when environmentalists were panicking about the hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica but that seems to have been quietly forgotten about as has acid rain which was killing trees in the U.K. including Scotland.

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Do energy bills charge the same amount for the amount of carbon that they create to provide the power. For example does a kilowatt hour of gas heating make as much carbon as a kilowatt hour of electricity? If there is a difference, and it seems logical to me that there will be why not look at replacing the sources of energy that generate the highest carbon output. That's why nuclear power would be best.
, I think!

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Originally Posted by BCram

Do energy bills charge the same amount for the amount of carbon that they create to provide the power. For example does a kilowatt hour of gas heating make as much carbon as a kilowatt hour of electricity? If there is a difference, and it seems logical to me that there will be why not look at replacing the sources of energy that generate the highest carbon output. That's why nuclear power would be best.
, I think!

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They are variable ,seem to lumped together now that most energy is from renewables,or at least they claim to be ,agree regards nuclear energy the actual concept is very simple and safe until we crack cold fusion….!!!

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Originally Posted by islaydarkblue

Saving carbon is not going to pay the bills but saving money will.
You are correct that this Net Zero Carbon is just a con.
I can remember when environmentalists were panicking about the hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica but that seems to have been quietly forgotten about as has acid rain which was killing trees in the U.K. including Scotland.

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If we don’t start saving carbon there will be very little to buy with the money.

We need to do better simple as that.

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Originally Posted by hmac

If we don’t start saving carbon there will be very little to buy with the money.

We need to do better simple as that.

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Exactly. Why publicise money saving if there might be a much bigger carbon saving scheme for the same money?