Lady of Heaven

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Originally Posted by WBA123

Lets be fair, we all want freedom of speech. But it has to be curtailed when it becomes hateful. I don't want extremist Muslims spouting on and claiming its free speech anymore than Tommy Robinson or Britain First producing a hate filled vengeful film and claiming the same. I'd expect both to be banned.

I know Muslims see it as sinful to depict this religious character - But its just judging where that line is.

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Agree with much of that! Freedom of speech and the right to offend is a good starting premise but it isn't a one way street and if one person is allowed to put their point of view over then anyone else equally has the right to disagree.

IMHO, I believe that certain things should be exempt from this however, such as the so called "protected characteristics" like age, ***uality, skin colour or disability. These are all inherent characteristics individuals cannot change about themselves and should therefore be protected from attack. Anything else-including religion or politics- is fair game for criticism / satire etc. regardless of whether some feel "offended". It's the ensuing discussions from these disagreements that are important as these may lead to better understanding and agreement whereas simple censorship achieves nothing. Having said this, I still think that to needlessly offend for the sake of it is pretty childish.

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Originally Posted by DaveP67 is back!

The think is the film doesn’t portray Islam negatively, in fact it’s positive, just doesn’t fit the latter day jihaddist view!

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From what I've read this does seem to be the case and I have zero sympathy for most of the objections made but just saying that any film portraying the prophet seems to me to be needlessly offensive to many moderate Muslims. Without seeing the film it's very difficult to comment much more though.

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Originally Posted by kettering_baggie

I think that it’s quire outrageous that peoples freedom to go and watch a film is curtailed because of a section of society that live their lives according to a fairy tale. If those people want to live in a society that prohibits free speech then they should not be living in this country where such ideas are alien; maybe they should emigrate to Afghanistan?

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Totally agree! Disgusting how that Head in the school in Batley did not back her teacher who had to go in hiding fearing for his life! He made a mistake and the Head should have said that loud and clear and backed them!

This is meant to be the U.K. and not Afghanistan! Our national flag should fly from every public building as does the US flag in their country and Christmas should be shouted out from the roof tops!

I lived in Spain for many years and followed Spanish culture and unlike many Brits - ensured i became absolutely fluent in the language. Shocking how many live in this country and don’t speak English!

The theater owners know that they risk being killed if they show the film. Nobody can protect them from a potential suicide attack. The police know that. The Muslims know that and stood their ground. A blasphemy law imposed and accepted in the time-honored fashion.

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Originally Posted by Robus

The theater owners know that they risk being killed if they show the film. Nobody can protect them from a potential suicide attack. The police know that. The Muslims know that and stood their ground. A blasphemy law imposed and accepted in the time-honored fashion.

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I wonder what may have happened if they'd had access to automatic weaponry and enough rounds of ammunition to outfire tactical fire teams arriving to defend the cinema, it's staff and owners.

It's interesting that the film was written by a Muslim, who evidently was pushing forward his views at the expense of the majority of Muslims. However, I am a firm believer that in our country we should be able to make films and write books etc on any subject. That is what differentiates us from so many other countries. We can then choose to ignore or refute such work. Censorship is a slippery slope, which history generally shows leads to biased and negative outcomes. At least that is my opinion and although I often disagree with what people write on here, at least we are all able to express our views without fear of consequence.

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Originally Posted by Albionic68

I wonder what may have happened if they'd had access to automatic weaponry and enough rounds of ammunition to outfire tactical fire teams arriving to defend the cinema, it's staff and owners.

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Great point. I also wonder who would fight more aggressively, Muslims who believe you shouldn’t depict their gods or Americans who have their toy guns removed?

Americans ridicule Muslims for their outdated principles because they are written in an ancient book, that they have no intention of questioning or changing….see where I’m going with this.

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Originally Posted by billsbest

It's interesting that the film was written by a Muslim, who evidently was pushing forward his views at the expense of the majority of Muslims. However, I am a firm believer that in our country we should be able to make films and write books etc on any subject. That is what differentiates us from so many other countries. We can then choose to ignore or refute such work. Censorship is a slippery slope, which history generally shows leads to biased and negative outcomes. At least that is my opinion and although I often disagree with what people write on here, at least we are all able to express our views without fear of consequence.

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Precisely! The film portrays a point of view, the message isn’t inciteful nor does it break any uk laws, it should not be removed from cinemas on the back of a mob. One extreme mirrors the other, Hitler banned art that didn’t fit his narrative, no difference here I’m afraid, thin end of a big wedge..

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Originally Posted by Albionic68

I wonder what may have happened if they'd had access to automatic weaponry and enough rounds of ammunition to outfire tactical fire teams arriving to defend the cinema, it's staff and owners.

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Like this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novemb..._Paris_attacks

Or this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mumbai_attacks

It doesn't matter what laws you make. That crowd of bearded men speak louder than any statute because THEY know, and YOU know--and THEY know that YOU know--who really has the willingness and ability make the other bend the knee.

You are going through a moment of cultural confusion, an identity crisis. You thought it was a good thing to be European, and English, but now you seem to be apologizing for your very existence. Your penance for imaginary historical crimes is to open your borders to unlimited migration and flagellate yourselves for "racism."

Those men in beards are not confused. Here is what they know: Britain is within the Abode of War (Dar al-Harb) by virtue of that fact that kuffar (non-Muslims) are in charge. Within the Abode of War, kuffar may be attacked and killed. Their lives, property, and women are lawful to the Muslims. The religious duty of every Muslim is to bring Britain within the Abode of Islam (Dar al-Islam) by imposing Islamic law and authority. Kuffar will have three choices, ultimately: Conversion, death, or submission by payment of the jizya tax or enslavement.

The Home Office issued 2 million visas since COVID began. While you were locked down, the invasion of your country was in full swing. There will be another million this year, or more. There are only 45 million English people in this world.

Tell me: Where is this going?

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Originally Posted by Robus

Like this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novemb..._Paris_attacks

Or this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mumbai_attacks

Europeans are living in a dream world. It doesn't matter what laws you make. That crowd of bearded men speak louder than any statute because THEY know, and YOU know--and THEY know that YOU know--who really has the willingness and ability make the other bend the knee.

You are going through a moment of cultural confusion, an identity crisis. You thought it was a good thing to be European, and English, but now you seem to be apologizing for your very existence. Your penance for imaginary historical crimes is to open your borders to unlimited migration and flagellate yourselves for "racism."

Those men in beards are not confused. Here is what they know: Britain is within the Abode of War (Dar al-Harb) by virtue of that fact that kuffar (non-Muslims) are in charge. Within the Abode of War, kuffar may be attacked and killed. Their lives, property, and women are lawful to the Muslims. The religious duty of every Muslim is to bring Britain within the Abode of Islam (Dar al-Islam) by imposing Islamic law and authority. Kuffar will have three choices, ultimately: Conversion, death, or submission by payment of the jizya tax or enslavement.

The Home Office issued 2 million visas since COVID began. While you were locked down, the invasion of your country was in full swing. There will be another million this year, or more. There are only 45 million English people in this world.

Tell me: Where is this going?

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Sorry Robus but I haven't got time to read all that or follow your Wiki links, cheers all the same and I'll try and have a look later.

However, just wanted to say I have a beard too and I'm not confused either. I don't follow any religion and already pay too much tax. I don't have an identity crisis and I most definitely don't flaggelate.

Thank you very much for your ongoing concern though, it's reassuring and strangely comforting in a very violent and hateful world of people with guns, with or without beards, and all religions of peace.

Have a nice day y'all 😊 .