Hands up who believes???

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Originally Posted by Brin

�� that?s my like button

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I like too. Pretty good summing up. I asked the question answered in a way which sums up people’s frustration, inc mine

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Originally Posted by UlleyMiller

I stopped actively listening to/reading anything from Evans around mid-autumn. I have no issue with him as a human being and have no interest in booing him or shouting abuse, but I also have no reason to take him seriously or believe him. I obviously pick up on the odd thing he says because algorithms throw articles my way, but all this has done is solidify my thoughts on him. He has a fractious relationship with the truth, reality, and professionalism.

To answer the question, no. I wouldn't believe anything that Evans says, but nor would I believe he's lying every time he speaks - I just take it all with a pinch of salt and accept that there are two weighty egos at the club, each with their own (occasionally overlapping) agenda, each capable of great things, but each also limited in their ability to accept the harsh realities which they face. The club is increasingly the worse for it, but as with my take on what noise comes out of the club, my apathy steadily grows.

We'll be a meaningful, driven, identifiable club again one day, but right now it doesn't feel that's just around the corner. I'll keep paying up and watching either way, but the spark isn't there.

Just my take.

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👍

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Originally Posted by UlleyMiller

I stopped actively listening to/reading anything from Evans around mid-autumn. I have no issue with him as a human being and have no interest in booing him or shouting abuse, but I also have no reason to take him seriously or believe him. I obviously pick up on the odd thing he says because algorithms throw articles my way, but all this has done is solidify my thoughts on him. He has a fractious relationship with the truth, reality, and professionalism.

To answer the question, no. I wouldn't believe anything that Evans says, but nor would I believe he's lying every time he speaks - I just take it all with a pinch of salt and accept that there are two weighty egos at the club, each with their own (occasionally overlapping) agenda, each capable of great things, but each also limited in their ability to accept the harsh realities which they face. The club is increasingly the worse for it, but as with my take on what noise comes out of the club, my apathy steadily grows.

We'll be a meaningful, driven, identifiable club again one day, but right now it doesn't feel that's just around the corner. I'll keep paying up and watching either way, but the spark isn't there.

Just my take.

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Excellent take and is about where my feelings on the matter are right now.

If I had to throw a sprinkle of mitigation in for the club and the management, I do think they have quite a tricky balancing act to maintain, purely because of the nature of football as a whole in 2025.

Rotherham United have a core of die hard fans who will turn out and support the club no matter what. It's in our blood, it's our passion. It goes deeper than 90 minutes of kicking a bag of air around. People like me and Jocksgloves (from what I have read in his comments) go because it is part of family tradition. I meet up with family members that I only ever see at the game and Christmas (and sadly more funerals as age catches up with us all). I just enjoy the whole match day experience, meeting family, having a pint and a moan at all things life and football, catching up. There's something deeply tribal about football but also a wider sense of togetherness in that at 3pm on a Saturday, hundreds of thousands of people just like us across the whole country will be turning out to support their team. Call me sentimental but there's something magical about that.

But in 2025, football on a Saturday has to compete with so many other things as an entertainment product. Clubs like our beloved Rotherham have to compete with other forms of entertainment as well as bigger football clubs. It's a much harder sell now than it used to be.

I took my daughters to watch Ice Hockey in Leeds a few weeks ago. The lad is a Miller but the girls' have never been bothered about football despite my best efforts. Thanks to social media and TikTok or whatever, they have developed a liking for watching guys in multi coloured riot gear smashing a puck around an ice rink with a stick. I went along and cannot deny it was a thoroughly entertaining night. An extremely lively and fun atmosphere (certainly no hockey in a library chants from the away fans), family friendly, can have a beer watching the game, no trouble at all (apart from the players having a punch up on the ice from time to time), the players all give 100% and everyone stands for the national anthem before the game starts. For pure entertainment it was cracking and we all enjoyed it. For a family of us it worked out a lot cheaper than an afternoon at NYS watching the Millers stink out the stadium and lose to the dark arts of Gareth Ainsworth's Shrewsbury.

I don't think I could get into the Ice Hockey week in, week out, mainly because I have no affinity to Leeds and it's not football. My loyalty to the Millers will keep me going back like I have done for years. But for people wanting to be entertained and value for money, it's a much harder prospect.

If the club came out and were honest and said this was a rebuild and consolidation season, then that would appease a couple of thousand of us, but it's hardly going to appeal to the more casual fan. Younger kids looking to be entertained are more likely to be drawn to things like the Ice Hockey than going to watch the Millers show enough ambition to finish 18th in the League. People don't want to pay to watch a slow build, it's not exciting. But the club has to somehow try and sell what it's offering, the problem is they're relying on Steve Evans to be our marketing tool, coupled with an annual address from Tony to talk about lessons learned.

So the loyal fans just wish the club would be honest, the casual fans are staying away because the football is dire, the ex-pats are glad they're on the other side of the world and nobody is happy.

How do we break this cycle?

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Originally Posted by DerekMiller

Excellent take and is about where my feelings on the matter are right now.

If I had to throw a sprinkle of mitigation in for the club and the management, I do think they have quite a tricky balancing act to maintain, purely because of the nature of football as a whole in 2025.

Rotherham United have a core of die hard fans who will turn out and support the club no matter what. It's in our blood, it's our passion. It goes deeper than 90 minutes of kicking a bag of air around. People like me and Jocksgloves (from what I have read in his comments) go because it is part of family tradition. I meet up with family members that I only ever see at the game and Christmas (and sadly more funerals as age catches up with us all). I just enjoy the whole match day experience, meeting family, having a pint and a moan at all things life and football, catching up. There's something deeply tribal about football but also a wider sense of togetherness in that at 3pm on a Saturday, hundreds of thousands of people just like us across the whole country will be turning out to support their team. Call me sentimental but there's something magical about that.

But in 2025, football on a Saturday has to compete with so many other things as an entertainment product. Clubs like our beloved Rotherham have to compete with other forms of entertainment as well as bigger football clubs. It's a much harder sell now than it used to be.

I took my daughters to watch Ice Hockey in Leeds a few weeks ago. The lad is a Miller but the girls' have never been bothered about football despite my best efforts. Thanks to social media and TikTok or whatever, they have developed a liking for watching guys in multi coloured riot gear smashing a puck around an ice rink with a stick. I went along and cannot deny it was a thoroughly entertaining night. An extremely lively and fun atmosphere (certainly no hockey in a library chants from the away fans), family friendly, can have a beer watching the game, no trouble at all (apart from the players having a punch up on the ice from time to time), the players all give 100% and everyone stands for the national anthem before the game starts. For pure entertainment it was cracking and we all enjoyed it. For a family of us it worked out a lot cheaper than an afternoon at NYS watching the Millers stink out the stadium and lose to the dark arts of Gareth Ainsworth's Shrewsbury.

I don't think I could get into the Ice Hockey week in, week out, mainly because I have no affinity to Leeds and it's not football. My loyalty to the Millers will keep me going back like I have done for years. But for people wanting to be entertained and value for money, it's a much harder prospect.

If the club came out and were honest and said this was a rebuild and consolidation season, then that would appease a couple of thousand of us, but it's hardly going to appeal to the more casual fan. Younger kids looking to be entertained are more likely to be drawn to things like the Ice Hockey than going to watch the Millers show enough ambition to finish 18th in the League. People don't want to pay to watch a slow build, it's not exciting. But the club has to somehow try and sell what it's offering, the problem is they're relying on Steve Evans to be our marketing tool, coupled with an annual address from Tony to talk about lessons learned.

So the loyal fans just wish the club would be honest, the casual fans are staying away because the football is dire, the ex-pats are glad they're on the other side of the world and nobody is happy.

How do we break this cycle?

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Great post.

In short, I don't have the answers (nor would I claim to) and could only say what is missing for me personally. I think we got too 'civilised' when we moved to NYS, and the underdog spirit that embodied the club for me as a youngster/young adult/less-young adult over the years is absent. This is all the more noticeable now the initial buzz of NYS, and more recent yo-yo seasons are gone. There's an old logic in football that to compete above your level, you have to make it difficult for opposing teams and almost create a bit of a nightmare away fixture for them. Whilst I'd like (back of house) to see investment in the best training facilities we can stretch to, I think in the ground we should do absolutely anything and everything we can to get an atmosphere which excites the team and is a bit of a cauldron for away teams.

Limit away tickets (I believe 10% is the requirement), tighten up on away fans bringing drums in, get some safe standing in, discount tickets for 16-25 year olds in specific areas to bunch them up (in the players' ears as they come out, near to away fans to drown them out etc), get that speaker system sorted out, get some areas to put flags up, and absolutely anything to get the atmosphere aligned to a (generally) poor northern town.

I would also start to back the youngsters a bit more. Fully appreciate they often look pretty green, and it would have to be something we gradually phase in as a general ethos, but if we have young players reaching 19/20 who haven't (or have barely) played, get them around the first team and get them out there as much as possible. Young local lads drive interest too, and I think we should have a general move towards them seeing a viable path to first team football.

Sell the tickets off too. If on a Saturday at midday there are seats left, bang them out cheaply. Granted, some may want to take a risk and wait, but they'll get the worst seats and have to queue a while.

All in all, put the club and all that it means first. We're all aware of the need for a 'sustainable' business model, but the club has been here for (excuse my cynicism) over 147 years, and to the majority of fans it is not a business. Do the right things for that badge, and continue with 95% of the approach as a business, and the rest will click. IMHO.

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Originally Posted by UlleyMiller

Great post.

In short, I don't have the answers (nor would I claim to) and could only say what is missing for me personally. I think we got too 'civilised' when we moved to NYS, and the underdog spirit that embodied the club for me as a youngster/young adult/less-young adult over the years is absent. This is all the more noticeable now the initial buzz of NYS, and more recent yo-yo seasons are gone. There's an old logic in football that to compete above your level, you have to make it difficult for opposing teams and almost create a bit of a nightmare away fixture for them. Whilst I'd like (back of house) to see investment in the best training facilities we can stretch to, I think in the ground we should do absolutely anything and everything we can to get an atmosphere which excites the team and is a bit of a cauldron for away teams.

Limit away tickets (I believe 10% is the requirement), tighten up on away fans bringing drums in, get some safe standing in, discount tickets for 16-25 year olds in specific areas to bunch them up (in the players' ears as they come out, near to away fans to drown them out etc), get that speaker system sorted out, get some areas to put flags up, and absolutely anything to get the atmosphere aligned to a (generally) poor northern town.

I would also start to back the youngsters a bit more. Fully appreciate they often look pretty green, and it would have to be something we gradually phase in as a general ethos, but if we have young players reaching 19/20 who haven't (or have barely) played, get them around the first team and get them out there as much as possible. Young local lads drive interest too, and I think we should have a general move towards them seeing a viable path to first team football.

Sell the tickets off too. If on a Saturday at midday there are seats left, bang them out cheaply. Granted, some may want to take a risk and wait, but they'll get the worst seats and have to queue a while.

All in all, put the club and all that it means first. We're all aware of the need for a 'sustainable' business model, but the club has been here for (excuse my cynicism) over 147 years, and to the majority of fans it is not a business. Do the right things for that badge, and continue with 95% of the approach as a business, and the rest will click. IMHO.

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Some great ideas there, I especially agree about the youth set up. There's something really inspiring about seeing one of our own come through and do well on the pitch. I still keep an eye on Ben Wiles' career (scored a great free kick at the weekend) and I would absolutely love to see Kayode finally come good and show us what he can do. Even Georgie Kelly, despite not being local or coming through our youth system, created a real buzz when he arrived here and really connected with the fan base. On a few occasions I spoke to fans who had made the trip across from Ireland to see their local lad play, it generated interest in the club.

The only interest we're generating at the minute youth wise is Man Utd being unhappy about how we've treated one of their youngsters.

Kayode had his chance I can't see him making it here. McGuckin Hatton will never get a chance under this management. With young players if they show enough need to brought through otherwise they'll loose the incentive to keep the belief they'll make it here.

Kayode could probably make it if he managed to stay fit and use his body better. He could learn a lot about the tricks of the trade in that respect from Wilks.

I hope McGuckin makes it as well but at the moment he seems too lightweight and is easily knocked off the ball. Hopefully playing for Yeovil might toughen him up a bit but he's not exactly banging goals in even at that lower level.
He'll probably be another one who falls by the wayside.

I've never seen Hatton play so can't comment on his prospects. He hasn't been sent out on loan though which might suggest the coaches think he can offer something at League 1 level already.
Whether he will ever get a chance under this manager is a different question altogether and probably the best he can hope for will be making up numbers on the bench.

I spent months taking my grandson to the mis-named academy (he was in the same age group as Paul Warne's son) and to say the set up was amateurish and the practice drills were mind numbingly boring, are both understatements.
He subsequently ended up at Barnsley where everything is on a totally different level.
I'm not in the least bit surprised that we rarely develop "our own" and, believe me, neither should anyone else be!