The run in

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Originally Posted by swaledale

Its not a case of disagreeing that Clowes being a "newbie" is irrelevant, its a fact as evidence of others who own football clubs and are what you term "newbies" demonstrates. The owner, provides the funds and runs the business side of matters, their experience of owning a football club is irrelevant.

I could list several examples which shows this to be the case. But lets take Mel Morris, he was "newbie" but achieved success if measured by league position and the fact he got the club to a play off final!

Or lets take the middle eastern owners of Man City, how much experience did they have of owning a football club? None, they had the finance and employed people with the requisite knowledge and experience of football management and player recruitment etc.

Furthermore, it hasn't been Clowes lack of experience of owning Derby that has been the issue, its been the fact that he had to rebuild the club out of administration, with the added restriction of EFL controls on transfers and wages for the first two seasons.

Clowes may well have learned more about running the club, though I suspect his business acumen was fine in any case, but to date I would say its difficult to identify where his judgement has been awry. Yes it is a fact he was a "newbie" owner, though not like some without a knowledge of football even if only a from a fans point of view. But given there are also numerous examples of owners with more experience of owning a football club who haven't achieved what he has in under 3 years, on what evidence do you base your view that his "newbie" status is or has been an issue?

The only people who would criticise Clowes are those fans who have quickly forgotten the base from which he rebuilt the club and who blithely assume that he can just throw money at a problem , whether that be buying players or replacing the manager. Certainly he will have realised that owning a football club like Derby is how to make a small fortune, from the large one he invested!!

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This has become a slightly daft argument with someone I agree with more often than not and certainly usually on the Election Year thread, however, here goes?

The term you originally objected to wasn’t ‘newbie’ it was ‘rookie’ which, I accept may have more negative connotations.

Beyond that you should have recognised by now that I have the greatest respect for David Clowes.
That doesn’t however mean that I don’t believe he’s made mistakes, indeed I believed at the time, and continue to believe, that his early days replacement of Rosenior by Warne was one such mistake.
Of course there is no way of proving that, although looking at their relative performances since there can be little doubt as to which of those two managers now (less than three years on) looks destined for greater success at a higher level.

You talk about Clowes’ business acumen but you know at least as well as I do that traditional business acumen has little to do with running a football club which, as you acknowledge, has often been described as ‘the fastest way to make a small fortune…out of a large one!’

You cannot have it both ways however. Clowes isn’t in the mega rich league and has to be more hands on than those super rich owners you speak of. He has earned the plaudits and I am full of respect and admiration, but there have also been mistakes that he will have learned from.

As I understand it, he has handed over much of the day to day running of his main business to his brother while he concentrates on the DCFC side of things. To what extent he wishes to return more full time to his original business and pass the club on into responsible but wealthier ownership I’m not sure, but I do feel certain he will have learned an enormous amount about the pitfalls and duplicity of football club ownership over the last three years and my only point is that this learning curve will only be of benefit to us all as he becomes more experienced and less of a ‘newbie’.

Some interesting games in the run in tonight.

Oxford v QPR who are, respectively 3 and 4 points above us. Oxford still have Wednesday, Leeds and Sunderland to come which should help us. Probably a QPR win would be best for us. Oxford's other game is Cardiff and they can't both win.

Swansea v Plymouth resp. 6 above us and 5 below. Don't really want a Plymouth win

Coventry v Pompey Cov chasing the playoffs and Pompey just 3 points above us. They lose tonight and we beat them Satdeh and we go above them

3 good results for us. What's the current status and what's to come?

Pompey and Oxford both on 45 points. Hull and Stoke both on 44. Us and Cardiff on 42. Luton on 40. Plymouth on 37.

Plymouth have to face Sheff U, Boro, Coventry, PNE and Leeds. Barring a miracle, they are down, IMO as I don't see them getting more than 2 or 3 points at the most.
Luton have Blackburn, Derby, Bristol City, Coventry, WBA. Luton down too. They'll end up on 44 at most. Their GD is much worse than that of Stoke and Hull who are already on 44 and I fancy us to get more than 3 points from the remaining fixtures
Cardiff have Stoke, Sheff U, Oxford, WBA and Norwich. 4 points max IMO putting them on 46.
Stoke have Cardiff ,Wednesday, Leeds, Sheff U and us. 4 points max putting them on 48.
Hull have Coventry, Swansea, PNE, Derby and Pompey. I fancy them to get half a dozen, leaving them on 50.
Oxford have Wednesday, Leeds, Cardiff, Sunderland and Swansea. Max 4 points leaving them on 50
Pompey have Derby, Norwich, Watford, Wednesday and Hull. 5 max leaving them on 51.

Derby? We have Pompey, Luton, WBA, Hull and Stoke. Minimum of 7 points, IMO, leaving us on 49 or more. It could still, however, go down to the last day and that game between us and Stoke could prove decisive, especially if Cardiff are still within 3 points of us and Stoke.

For me it's Plymouth, Luton, Cardiff for the drop.

All conjecture of course but that's my take on it.

Too many variables for me to consider to give an estimate. I'm just glad we've got points on the board and are in the mix, staying up this season would be a huge success and set us up for the future... I feel it's a coin spin though whether we'll do it!

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Originally Posted by Ramshank72

Too many variables for me to consider to give an estimate. I'm just glad we've got points on the board and are in the mix, staying up this season would be a huge success and set us up for the future... I feel it's a coin spin though whether we'll do it!

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Agreed RS, results at this stage of the season never pan out as you'd expect. For eg Sheff U must have fancied max points from their last two fixtures but lost to Oxford away and then Millwall at home without scoring! No, it's never that simple, as the pressure mounts owt can happen and usually does!

IMO to start next season in the C'ship we'll need to find the onion bag on the odd occasion but I'm not convinced we'll grab enough goals to scrape our way to safety. Hopefully I'm wrong!

We have a great chance of staying up but there are always shock results in the last few games as teams scrap for every point.

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Originally Posted by macstheman

IMO to start next season in the C'ship we'll need to find the onion bag on the odd occasion but I'm not convinced we'll grab enough goals to scrape our way to safety. Hopefully I'm wrong!

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Agreed, it?s been woeful, but our relatively good goal diff demonstrates that we?ve actually had a well marshalled defence, whoever the personnel

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Agreed, it?s been woeful, but our relatively good goal diff demonstrates that we?ve actually had a well marshalled defence, whoever the personnel

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Yes the defence has done it's job and has been the basis of our survival campaign, however it's meant that without backup in the 'goals for' column just one mistake has cost us and that's happened regularly and all too often late on when minds and legs are wilting!
It's not Eustace's fault that we have nil creativity and zilch up front but we need goals end of. Quite how Eustace will conjure up a few goals is any body's guess but the facts are quite clear, you have to score goals to win matches! Can we??

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

3 good results for us. What's the current status and what's to come?

Pompey and Oxford both on 45 points. Hull and Stoke both on 44. Us and Cardiff on 42. Luton on 40. Plymouth on 37.

Plymouth have to face Sheff U, Boro, Coventry, PNE and Leeds. Barring a miracle, they are down, IMO as I don't see them getting more than 2 or 3 points at the most.
Luton have Blackburn, Derby, Bristol City, Coventry, WBA. Luton down too. They'll end up on 44 at most. Their GD is much worse than that of Stoke and Hull who are already on 44 and I fancy us to get more than 3 points from the remaining fixtures
Cardiff have Stoke, Sheff U, Oxford, WBA and Norwich. 4 points max IMO putting them on 46.
Stoke have Cardiff ,Wednesday, Leeds, Sheff U and us. 4 points max putting them on 48.
Hull have Coventry, Swansea, PNE, Derby and Pompey. I fancy them to get half a dozen, leaving them on 50.
Oxford have Wednesday, Leeds, Cardiff, Sunderland and Swansea. Max 4 points leaving them on 50
Pompey have Derby, Norwich, Watford, Wednesday and Hull. 5 max leaving them on 51.

Derby? We have Pompey, Luton, WBA, Hull and Stoke. Minimum of 7 points, IMO, leaving us on 49 or more. It could still, however, go down to the last day and that game between us and Stoke could prove decisive, especially if Cardiff are still within 3 points of us and Stoke.

For me it's Plymouth, Luton, Cardiff for the drop.

All conjecture of course but that's my take on it.

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Mmmm, Plymouth already got MA's max 3 pts!!!

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Originally Posted by macstheman

Mmmm, Plymouth already got MA's max 3 pts!!!

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Got that bit right then XD