Election Year or Fear!

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Originally Posted by swaledale

As for why you’re feeling aggrieved.

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You’re making stuff up again, where did I say I felt aggrieved. I’m making a point about Labours ethics, not about any impact on me. Very little aggrieves me, paying a little extra tax here and there certainly doesn’t, the Tories attacked CGT (allowances) for instance, I just had to suck it up. Difference is they didn’t say they wouldn’t

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Originally Posted by swaledale

Even the apparently "left wing" BBC is focusing on stuff that is largely irrelevant but apes the right wing media attacks.
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Nothing especially to do with right or left but the BBC is progressively losing the plot - still the best but a shadow of its former self in many ways especially in news and current affairs

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

Do you? The question was the black hole. You know, that thing that Labour keeps crowing about, but won't give any evidence as to its origin?
Whether I agree on the pay rises or not, is irrellevent to the question.
You have twisted it away from the onus of proof, to a guilt trip.
Perhaps you need to get off your high horse or fence.

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Yes, the black hole you seem to think was created by train drivers wage rises when the government DOES NOT pay train drivers, they get paid by the PRIVATE rail companies. I've twisted nothing. Merely pointed out that the train drivers have nothing to do with the black hole.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

I suspect you didn't, or - at the least - you’d forgotten…hence your rudeness to MA when he made exactly the same point as GP.

Where’s the ‘black hole’ come from? Well you were partly correct years ago when you were critical of the furlough scheme, but you’ve probably forgotten that too. In my view it was necessary but you were more critical and condemned it, saying it would cost this country for decades to come.
Probably right…the cost of the pandemic and furlough have been enormous and can be used as a partial excuse for the mess Labour have been left with.

Unfortunately for you/us, the other side of that coin is the amount of public money wasted by previous governments during Covid.

The New York Times reports that out of 1200 Covid contracts worth nearly £22bn approximately half went to companies either run by friends and associates of Conservative Party politicians or with no relevant experience.

The Good Law Project estimates that over 80% spent on PPE was wasted or ‘lost’.

Transparency International UK says that 20% of the Covid contracts awarded had red flags indicating ‘possible corruption’ attached to them.

I think your original comment was something about ‘chickens coming home to roost’ and you were probably right, albeit not in the way you imagined…but please now listen to MA and GP and start looking a little closer to home than the train drivers,

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So why don't they say so? You cannot claim there was a black hole you didn't know about, (the figures were available), then refuse to provide proof of what was unknown. It makes no sense and we all know it is a ruse to cover up the inevitable tax rises to come. Its very convinient to solely just say 14 years of Tory rule. Its wearing thin now

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Originally Posted by Trickytreesreds

So why don't they say so? You cannot claim there was a black hole you didn't know about, (the figures were available), then refuse to provide proof of what was unknown. It makes no sense and we all know it is a ruse to cover up the inevitable tax rises to come. Its very convinient to solely just say 14 years of Tory rule. Its wearing thin now

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Possibly because they intend, rightly imo, to go after those responsible for the ‘misappropriation’ of the funds I mentioned and there maybe (please note the words ‘possibly’ and ‘maybe’) some legal aspect involved.

Possibly because it is much more complicated than the majority of the electorate can comprehend…it’s hardly unprecedented for new administrations to come into office and declare that things are much worse than they initially believed, is it?

Either way, 14 years of ‘Tory rule’ leaves little room for excuse, beyond Covid/Furlough, and anyone who has seen, for example, the decline in the NHS, the neglect of our schools, the environmental horrors and the collapse of our roads over recent years will be in little doubt of the need for a rebuild which, like it or not, is going to involve higher taxes.
IF that results in better dentistry, school buildings that are fit for purpose, shorter waiting lists, cleaner rivers and seas and better roads etc. and IF those with the ‘broadest shoulders’ are genuinely going to carry the greatest ‘burden’ then I, for one, will be supportive.

Those are some massive IFs and ones that will take decades to get sorted out. The damage of underinvestment coupled with low taxes has built up over last 50 years and, whilst low taxes will have stimulated employment and income and likely been net positive to the economy of UK plc, there will come a time (as in now) that the infrastructural demands mean a change of policy. Had tax revenues been better directed over those years we wouldn't be in this mess but short term ism has been dominant for as long as I can remember, whatever the administration.

My biggest concern is that taxes will increase to fund the infrastructural but that this won't happen and the money will be pissed away on "revenue not capital" and/or vanity projects (eg HS2)

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

Those are some massive IFs and ones that will take decades to get sorted out. The damage of underinvestment coupled with low taxes has built up over last 50 years and, whilst low taxes will have stimulated employment and income and likely been net positive to the economy of UK plc, there will come a time (as in now) that the infrastructural demands mean a change of policy. Had tax revenues been better directed over those years we wouldn't be in this mess but short term ism has been dominant for as long as I can remember, whatever the administration.

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Ah but, yeah but, no but... weren't the taxes levied in the 2nd half of the 14 years of Blue Tory mismanagement supposed to be the highest levels since Pontius was a pilot (and it's rumoured he was merely a rear gunner :) )?

Speaking as someone who can remember 98% unearned income tax rates, just, then I'd say no. BUT taken in the round with VAT and IHT added, it may be that the tax burden was indeed highest under blue14 and likely to get higher under red despite the promises.

That said the later years of blue 14 saw national insurance contributions fall twice in a vain attempt to buy votes. That worked well ☹️

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Originally Posted by MadAmster

Ah but, yeah but, no but... weren't the taxes levied in the 2nd half of the 14 years of Blue Tory mismanagement supposed to be the highest levels since Pontius was a pilot (and it's rumoured he was merely a rear gunner :) )?

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Yes they were MA, an oh how the Labour front bench howled at that fact and used it as a weapon.