Invoke, not revoke.Quote:
Originally Posted by alfinyalcabo
Ahh, that makes me feel better for every typo you ever corrected of mine :P
Printable View
Invoke, not revoke.Quote:
Originally Posted by alfinyalcabo
Ahh, that makes me feel better for every typo you ever corrected of mine :P
Seventwo - I've read my posts again and I've re-read your response. I have to say I'm baffled. My VERY point was that people have NOT looked at the bigger picture. As I said to Champs, the reaction to unrestricted immigration is totally understandable. In two generations everything has changed. My mum and dad had 19 brothers and sisters between them. One on my dad's side moved to Birmingham; one on my mum's went to Nottingham. The rest spent their whole lives in Gloucester - many of them in the same streets with the same neighbours. I remember my sister telling me how fascinated she was when she first saw a black face in the flesh just before WW2.Quote:
Originally Posted by seventwo
Two generations later, I'm living in New Zealand, having followed my children here, and most streets in England have a dozen different nationalities side by side.
It was never going to be easy. I go to a club locally. Some of the other members are scared by the Muslims in the building opposite. It's a pre-school centre.
I also agree with Despair that, all too often, the EU has been used to widen the useless free-market beliefs that have caused many of the world's economic problems. (That's why the hard-left are Euro-sceptic). On the other hand, this is the first time in history we have seen a DEMOCRATIC union that goes beyond the simple-minded nationalism that has been responsible for most of the wars throughout that history. Some of the idealists in Europe are genuinely upset, not because of trade-issues, but because the original vision has started to crumble. It's interesting that Germany has put the most effort into a the concept of a unified Europe. I suspect it's partly because they know better than anyone what rampant, isolationist Nationalism can lead to.
Beyond the wider issues, though, what a shambles! It looks as if no-one (except the Scots) had a plan as to what should follow a "leave"-vote. Already, the leaders of the pro-Brexit campaign are admitting that many of their promises were fanciful. It looks as if they thought that pulling up the drawbridge would simply solve all the problems overnight.
To repeat, I don't understand why my post has made you so angry. WHICH "one part of a bigger story" have I picked up and run with? My whole argument is based on looking at the issue from a long-term, political perspective, rather than a short-term socio-economic one.
If my ignorance knows no bounds, the same must be true of you because I completely agree with almost everything you've said in your post.
I quoted your original post and responded only to that.
I've got to say I'm fairly relieved that the majority on here can recognise the folly in all of this .
I kept back a little in my criticism of the 'dominating vote' and why individuals voted as they did, but Dan just told it how it was!
The bickering even now is continuing and even intensifying, the anarchists must be rubbing their hands in glee. La Pen is poised.
We (and Europe) are at a very, very serious watershed moment, and its ironic that Merkel (plus Tusk) are stepping up and trying to calm the situation as they also can see 'the bigger picture'. In condemnation though, it is them that have stubbornly refused to accept and deal with peoples anxieties.
Again yes bang on - 'it was a chance for the little man for just one day to bloody the establishments nose', but yes also for very good reasons.
However the consequences should have been very carefully understood and considered.
This 'revolution' should have been conducted (inside of the EU dictate) through the collective groundswell of dissatisfaction in collaboration with our like minded fellow members, of which there are many and in sufficient growing numbers to make a difference.
Trouble is, patience ran out. Just as it will in our probable forthcoming difficult financial demise, when 'improvements' fail to appear.
The bankers ? they may well be in Frankfurt by then. Don't be fooled into thinking they're gona be down the soup kitchen.
I have a relative (a Londoner) I was speaking to some months back and he reminds me very much of Sadiq Khan, and it is very evident to me that he does not see Londoners and 'the rest' in the same light. This is an example of the divide in our society.
When I go back about 30 yrs or so, it was unwise to wander along Whalley Range at night. I am going to predict that is now possibly going to be re-enacted along Whalley Banks/Redlam.
Paranoia? Ask the elder Germans, as Aucks says.
It is very hard to see a way out of this currently, its a complete mess. It would take a political genius to solve this. Trouble is, I just cannot see one out there with the acumen to get even close.
I know this is a footy forum, but in a skewed way this is far more important.
Lets keep it a debate of views without the slagging (lets leave that to the self serving politicians eh).
Just seen Osbornes very well considered statement (even though I don't like and trust the guy - he's a politician).
First and foremost he can certainly not make it worse by joining the bickering, but he has to try to be the calm head. He is doing this by converting from a doom and gloom man, to one of: ok well here we are, BUT we're in a good starting place!
By that he infers that all HIS good work has given us a situation that was, (and he is infering still is). Which is frankly political maneuvering as the markets are reacting with alarm.
On the Scotland issue, it is fairly obvious (despite my earlier view), that a separation is just not going to happen. She's jumped the gun a bit there. As more than anything the EU is not going to allow it, or at least make it simple straightforward, as she gushingly claimed.
As for 'a way out', is it just possible that some saviour type politician/s can someone invoke the NI and Scotland votes as being the catalyst to stall / delay / deny the article 50 trigger???
Its one hell of a long shot, and would of course create an outcry within England (excepting London, Manch etc.).
My wish would be for Merkel and Tusk in particular (plus others of the same persuasion) to come up with some sort of collective plan to regain common sense ground in defence against the anarchist elements that are really the ones that are going to gain from all of this.
Fair do's Dan,every dog has its day .lol ..good to see you posting again mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRrr
Fair enough, but that was genuinely the reaction of so many people around the world - and I'm not talking about being influenced by sensationalist media, as Champs thought. Most rational New Zealanders were gobsmacked by the result, because it seemed to fly in the face of common sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by seventwo
I spend a lot of time defending England and the English against charges of arrogance and insularity, because there is definitely a stereotype (even worse in Australia) to that effect down here.
This hasn't helped.
For avoidance of doubt this is tongue in cheek but how can you post that and have any defence against arrogance! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by AucklandRover
Even given anyone's dissatisfaction of Cameron 'representing' our country out there in Euro land, how many now feel far better with Mr Farage doing the lions share whilst 'strutting his stuff' and insulting everyone in sight?
He claims to be in the camp of retaining our relations with our like minded Europeans, when in reality he's probably alienating them. The ones I refer to are the reasonably reasoned ones, as opposed to the radical ones.
He openly admits and glorifies himself in admitting that he had an agenda decades and more ago that his mission in life was to remove UK from the club.
A dangerous 'loose cannon' does not even begin to describe him.
Diplomacy is / should be a key attribute in those that sit at the top of the political/ruling chain, but he has very, very little (if any).
The avalanche of 'political maneuverings' both here and over there, are mind numbing at the moment, its like a powder keg primed.
I have simply no idea where all this is heading at the moment, but I pray that common sense somehow arrives and we all get together to sort this mess out. In or out of the club makes no odds, regained stability is crucial.
Are the 'majority' of our nations people reasonable, I believe they are deep down. However, the referendum has been delivered and by a small margin enough were 'influenced' into believing there's a better way, so that's where we are.
What I saw of Farage yesterday made me seriously consider the possibility that he is slightly unhinged. Is he always like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Despair