Dyche has lost the plot

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Originally Posted by doggert

My point is that a change is needed, sinkov. How many times have you seen the bodylanguage of the players being the opposite of what you'd exptect from a professional player? I agree that a lot of the players aren't good enough anymore and several of them do need a different challenge. That change will never come with Dyche and you know that as well as me. To put it in perspective, yes we have an aging squad, well, then why sell Benson? Young and inspiring lad who impressed several the few times he played. Loyalty to the established perhaps? (yes, that's sarcastic)

Dyche has done as much as he can for our club, now it's time for someone else.

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Cannot argue with your point that a change is needed doggert, we're bottom of the league with one win all season. so that much is self-evident. But as I've argued many times recently, so I won't go over it again, we are not bottom of the league because of Sean Dyche, indeed if it wasn't for Dyche we wouldn't even be in this league, never mind bottom of it.

We are bottom of the league because the owners have not invested sufficiently in the squad for over three seasons now. Dyche has been able to paper over the cracks for a couple of seasons, but it appears even he has run out of ideas now. A change of manager will make no difference, what is needed is a change in the way the club is financed, you cannot sustain a PL team on our gates receipts and the TV money, Garlick appeared to acknowledge this and said he would sell the club to owners who could provide the required investment, instead he's sold the club to owners who are no more able to provide that investment than he was.

So I agree change is needed, but it's at boardroom level, not managerial level, that the change is needed, and as that is not likely to be forthcoming, down we will go, the only question is how far down.

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Originally Posted by sinkov

Cannot argue with your point that a change is needed doggert, we're bottom of the league with one win all season. so that much is self-evident. But as I've argued many times recently, so I won't go over it again, we are not bottom of the league because of Sean Dyche, indeed if it wasn't for Dyche we wouldn't even be in this league, never mind bottom of it.

We are bottom of the league because the owners have not invested sufficiently in the squad for over three seasons now. Dyche has been able to paper over the cracks for a couple of seasons, but it appears even he has run out of ideas now. A change of manager will make no difference, what is needed is a change in the way the club is financed, you cannot sustain a PL team on our gates receipts and the TV money, Garlick appeared to acknowledge this and said he would sell the club to owners who could provide the required investment, instead he's sold the club to owners who are no more able to provide that investment than he was.

So I agree change is needed, but it's at boardroom level, not managerial level, that the change is needed, and as that is not likely to be forthcoming, down we will go, the only question is how far down.

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And that mon ami is my major concern. :s

Please, and yes I do keep harping on about this do NOT forget the guilty man in all this. His name is GARLICK. This guy has made money at the expense of this club and then to add insult to injury sells us to an an outfit that needs leverage finance to buy us and has little money to spend:- BRILLIANT. Garlick is the reason why we signed Stephens. He the only player we could afford in that window and for the wages were paying; a guy that Brighton did not want to keep!!!!!! I doubt even Dyche wanted this guy. Never mind Championship Garlick's Stewardship when you look at our side could well potentially send us to the 1st Division. When you look at the likely leavers and those that must be replaced due to age lack of ability etc. That needs us requiring to sign 10 plus players in the summer, basically a new team!! Good Lord this recruitment team could not sign 2, never mind 10!! I hate to think of the journeymen and "has been's" that will turn up!! Plus we will also need at new manger as well into the mix. Eventually in all business and life poor management kills you in a competitive world. But never mind, Garlick is smiling. Out of sight and out of ,mind. We are dying in our boots from the slow attrition of Garlick lack of investment and now we have a massive problem for the future. I don;t think i've felt this pessimistic about Burnley for years.

In terms of Dyche
He should have been replaced after our fall and decline from finishing 7th, the season after.

We have made our bed and lying in it, we all know how Dyche plays football he hasn't changed, its got us in the prem and it has to date kept us in the prem.
Every year more teams get more money injected, these teams have long term progression plans, and even with huge financial backing still fail. Newcastle may fail, let alone Watford/ Norwich/ Everton all have huge structure, plans and finances.
In short everyone around us improves and has a plan to, everyone around us year after year invest in the infrastructure the training the players.
BFC for 4/5 years has stood still, Dyche is still doing Dyche... sacking him now will not save us, the damage is in lack of ambition, a plan to progress and recruitment, not this year over the last 4/5 years..damage is done there is no quick fix..
I actually think none of them year after year expected us to stay up hence never planned for that.

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Originally Posted by Deadlydave

Please, and yes I do keep harping on about this do NOT forget the guilty man in all this. His name is GARLICK. This guy has made money at the expense of this club and then to add insult to injury sells us to an an outfit that needs leverage finance to buy us and has little money to spend:- BRILLIANT. Garlick is the reason why we signed Stephens. He the only player we could afford in that window and for the wages were paying; a guy that Brighton did not want to keep!!!!!! I doubt even Dyche wanted this guy. Never mind Championship Garlick's Stewardship when you look at our side could well potentially send us to the 1st Division. When you look at the likely leavers and those that must be replaced due to age lack of ability etc. That needs us requiring to sign 10 plus players in the summer, basically a new team!! Good Lord this recruitment team could not sign 2, never mind 10!! I hate to think of the journeymen and "has been's" that will turn up!! Plus we will also need at new manger as well into the mix. Eventually in all business and life poor management kills you in a competitive world. But never mind, Garlick is smiling. Out of sight and out of ,mind. We are dying in our boots from the slow attrition of Garlick lack of investment and now we have a massive problem for the future. I don;t think i've felt this pessimistic about Burnley for years.

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I share your pessimism pal. >:(

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Originally Posted by FromTheDarkness

In terms of Dyche
He should have been replaced after our fall and decline from finishing 7th, the season after.

We have made our bed and lying in it, we all know how Dyche plays football he hasn't changed, its got us in the prem and it has to date kept us in the prem.
Every year more teams get more money injected, these teams have long term progression plans, and even with huge financial backing still fail. Newcastle may fail, let alone Watford/ Norwich/ Everton all have huge structure, plans and finances.
In short everyone around us improves and has a plan to, everyone around us year after year invest in the infrastructure the training the players.
BFC for 4/5 years has stood still, Dyche is still doing Dyche... sacking him now will not save us, the damage is in lack of ambition, a plan to progress and recruitment, not this year over the last 4/5 years..damage is done there is no quick fix..
I actually think none of them year after year expected us to stay up hence never planned for that.

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We have been out of our depth for some time mate. The pain will end soon. What happens next season God only knows. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by The Bedlington Terrier

We have been out of our depth for some time mate. The pain will end soon. What happens next season God only knows. :rolleyes:

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I am not really bothered about going down, I think really all fan can see the decline in the squad for years.. and see the teams around us in the league and it just seems its our time.

I would like a huge reset including Dyche to go and a huge rebuild, with a new plan, structure and vision, but who knows what the financial implications are with our dodgy owners.

You all have good points regarding the good times, contract-situation, lack of investments, the Garlic etc.. Having seen the exact same development at Cadiz which is incredibly similar to Burnley and the effecta magerial change has had, I still stand by my claim that the current manager doesn't have much to offer anymore.

A managerial change will in my opinion give a new motivation, inspiration, a lift and a much needed fresh breath. When the mantra "minimum requirement is maximum effort" hasn't been there for a long while and you can see that the players have lost faith in the project. They don't seem interested anymore. I see players that play because they have to, I see ten players that haven't signed new contracts (look aside that they're out-of-date) and I see a manager that has one victory in how long? And that in a buisness that is based on results. Even newly promoted Norwich cracked the Dyche-code in their first attempt and stopped everything we had to offer. That itself should be more than enough to realise that we need a change.

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Originally Posted by doggert

You all have good points regarding the good times, contract-situation, lack of investments, the Garlic etc.. Having seen the exact same development at Cadiz which is incredibly similar to Burnley and the effecta magerial change has had, I still stand by my claim that the current manager doesn't have much to offer anymore.

A managerial change will in my opinion give a new motivation, inspiration, a lift and a much needed fresh breath. When the mantra "minimum requirement is maximum effort" hasn't been there for a long while and you can see that the players have lost faith in the project. They don't seem interested anymore. I see players that play because they have to, I see ten players that haven't signed new contracts (look aside that they're out-of-date) and I see a manager that has one victory in how long? And that in a buisness that is based on results. Even newly promoted Norwich cracked the Dyche-code in their first attempt and stopped everything we had to offer. That itself should be more than enough to realise that we need a change.

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To be brutally frank doggert all an opposing team has to do to nullify us is go 4-4-2. Most of the EPL squads are miles better than us, so all they have to do is turn up, play and get a result.

It's not exactly Rocket Science is it? :blue:

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Originally Posted by The Bedlington Terrier

To be brutally frank doggert all an opposing team has to do to nullify us is go 4-4-2. Most of the EPL squads are miles better than us, so all they have to do is turn up, play and get a result.

It's not exactly Rocket Science is it? :blue:

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We’ve debated all the points before on the posts above and your almost correct BT but very rarely do teams set up 442 against us.

As for Dyche I’m going to say as I did the last time that I’m afraid the book stops with him you can all point fingers at the board ( previous or present ), But reality is Dyche is in charge of signings- squad - tactics and ultimately results, I can accept to a point regarding the players now but we have had footballers to Burnley in the last 5 years who simply haven’t had a chance but he sanctioned bringing them and selling them.

My point is tactically it’s archaic and we are no longer competitive, players play regardless of how they play - the whole thing is just too comfortable starting right up there with the manager - we got new owners and they almost begged Dyche to sign and he held out for his contract for a good while - question 1 is he just a bit too comfortable in his position?
Many fans saying he’s the messiah - and they’d be right except in football what you did before doesn’t matter.

You can dress it up anyway you want but imo anyway , the book stops with Dyche.