Trade or University

Each to their own.

A good classical university education gives you a broader and wider understanding and perspective on things (maybe there are not always ”the easy solutions” to everything). I e, many people who have studied law end up in other ”areas” and high/good positions and hugely benefit from their law studies.

I’ve always seen ”learned” and ”educated” as positive words.

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Originally Posted by WBA1955

You can sit in a classroom all day and learn theory but only practice makes experience.
That's how we seperate the Casanova's from the tossers.

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As at university when studying to become, i e, a doctor or a teacher, theory and practice mix.

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Originally Posted by Yarmbaggie

Every child/adult is different and what is right for one is not right for another.

To my mind the ‘education, education, education’ mantra caused so many problems, particularly for working class and middle class families. It became the talk around most dinner party tables/friends gathering, about which university your child/grandchild was going t. It became a badge of shame for families and especially children when they didn’t go to university either by choice or because they didn’t get the grades.

In my opinion far too many young adults leaving school for university should not be there because they either don’t want to be there or they are not suited to the university life. I know several sad cases of children of friends who dropped out of uni and didn’t even tell their parents for many months because of what they saw as their ‘shame’. Interestingly one of them was from a Sikh family and as the eldest son he lived a secret life for over 6 months in the university city because he couldn’t tell his family. This affects people from all backgrounds.

Education isn’t everything and neither should it be. I would rather have family who are happy and comfortable with what they do in life rather than ones who have ‘mega money jobs’ work all hours god sends and are stressed to the hilt. I know plenty of the latter, including some within the family, and I know which ones have the better lives, and usually it isn’t those with the biggest houses and the biggest incomes.

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A superb and well thought out post.

My ex sister in law was typical of the sort of parent you’re talking about.

She made my nephews life a misery forcing him into chasing university when he didn’t want it but because he has a timid personality he wouldn’t stand up to her.

He finally stood up for himself and ended up working in the local chip shop for a family friend and he’s as happy as Larry now.

His sister has gone to university and it’s the right fit, she’s intelligent and has a clear career plan as she’s intent on becoming a lawyer.

The pity is that their mum acts like she’s ashamed of her son and treats him like he’s let the family down.

I hate pushy parents, every child is different.

I’ll wager that my niece will become a lawyer and my nephew will end up earning a fortune by having his own chip shop at some point.

Good on each of them but shame on their mother, it all became about her and her social status with friends who’s kids were all going into university life.

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Originally Posted by SwedishBaggie

A good classical university education gives you a broader and wider understanding and perspective on things (maybe there are not always ”the easy solutions” to everything). I e, many people who have studied law end up in other ”areas” and high/good positions and hugely benefit from their law studies.

I’ve always seen ”learned” and ”educated” as positive words.

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Des is one of the most intelligent and well read people I’ve ever met and he didn’t go anywhere near a university.

I was a teacher for thirty years, mainly teaching Woodwork, Metalwork, Technical Drawing and PE. In year nine the pupils chose options for their studies for their GCSE. The options were put into three blocks with a science in each block. I taught in a Coal Mining area and the main employers apart from the pit were the Power Station and some small local engineering firms making components for the automotive industry.

I asked the Head why the need for Science in each group. His reply was "In case someone want's to train to be a Doctor." Very commendable, we had one girl train to be a Vet in twenty years. However, I often used to get boys asking if they could borrow books on Metalwork, as they were going for an Engineering Interview. They had not done the subject since the age of thirt e e n but new about Biology.

University is great for some, and very necessary for some professions. But there are many who may be wasting their time with a degree that will do little for their career prospects.

For lots of youngsters a trade would be far more use. Try and get hold of a Plasterer or Plumber. My son is an Electrician, has his own business and can put his hand to most building and construction skills. I have been helping him recently in the renovation and rewiring of a Farmhouse that was built in 1880. We have replaced two staircases, removed all the lath and plaster ceilings, discovered three fire places behind walls, and removed all the old rubber wires. He can plaster but because of the amount required to do, he decided to save time and get a plasterer in. That has proved a real problem. The plastering has now been done, but that is one example of a trade that appears to be short of skilled workers.

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Originally Posted by abbobrom

I was a teacher for thirty years, mainly teaching Woodwork, Metalwork, Technical Drawing and PE. In year nine the pupils chose options for their studies for their GCSE. The options were put into three blocks with a science in each block. I taught in a Coal Mining area and the main employers apart from the pit were the Power Station and some small local engineering firms making components for the automotive industry.

I asked the Head why the need for Science in each group. His reply was "In case someone want's to train to be a Doctor." Very commendable, we had one girl train to be a Vet in twenty years. However, I often used to get boys asking if they could borrow books on Metalwork, as they were going for an Engineering Interview. They had not done the subject since the age of thirt e e n but new about Biology.

University is great for some, and very necessary for some professions. But there are many who may be wasting their time with a degree that will do little for their career prospects.

For lots of youngsters a trade would be far more use. Try and get hold of a Plasterer or Plumber. My son is an Electrician, has his own business and can put his hand to most building and construction skills. I have been helping him recently in the renovation and rewiring of a Farmhouse that was built in 1880. We have replaced two staircases, removed all the lath and plaster ceilings, discovered three fire places behind walls, and removed all the old rubber wires. He can plaster but because of the amount required to do, he decided to save time and get a plasterer in. That has proved a real problem. The plastering has now been done, but that is one example of a trade that appears to be short of skilled workers.

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Good post!! Yes for some professions a good degree is a must and only good degrees are usually studied at top universities. Your post was good as it looked at both sides rather than just slating university kids ie p iss ups - saddled with debt etc! If a kid drops out from university they don’t even pay a penny back unless they earn 27K so not likely to earn that in a shop or packing boxes.

Trades are excellent but the down side over a good career if you have your own business - work not guaranteed - no pension - no annual bonus - no share save - no paid holidays - no sickness pay. That said everyone to their own! I have a family member who is a trained architect and yes he went to uni and he does plans and also does industrial window cleaning. Why? He’s paid cash for the window cleaning and loves to be outside.

You could be Einstein but without qualifications you can’t teach in a classroom - operate on a horse or dispense medicines as another poster does.

Many top international students come to the U.K. as universities here are known to be the best in the world!! Let’s look at the positives! I did not have this opportunity but every opportunity I didn’t have - I wish I had and applaud those in life who try to better themselves!

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Originally Posted by abbobrom

I was a teacher for thirty years, mainly teaching Woodwork, Metalwork, Technical Drawing and PE. In year nine the pupils chose options for their studies for their GCSE. The options were put into three blocks with a science in each block. I taught in a Coal Mining area and the main employers apart from the pit were the Power Station and some small local engineering firms making components for the automotive industry.

I asked the Head why the need for Science in each group. His reply was "In case someone want's to train to be a Doctor." Very commendable, we had one girl train to be a Vet in twenty years. However, I often used to get boys asking if they could borrow books on Metalwork, as they were going for an Engineering Interview. They had not done the subject since the age of thirt e e n but new about Biology.

University is great for some, and very necessary for some professions. But there are many who may be wasting their time with a degree that will do little for their career prospects.

For lots of youngsters a trade would be far more use. Try and get hold of a Plasterer or Plumber. My son is an Electrician, has his own business and can put his hand to most building and construction skills. I have been helping him recently in the renovation and rewiring of a Farmhouse that was built in 1880. We have replaced two staircases, removed all the lath and plaster ceilings, discovered three fire places behind walls, and removed all the old rubber wires. He can plaster but because of the amount required to do, he decided to save time and get a plasterer in. That has proved a real problem. The plastering has now been done, but that is one example of a trade that appears to be short of skilled workers.

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Back in the 70’s we had to do our subject choices from blocks like you explain Abbo.

This forced me to choose doing German which was absolutely pointless to me along with choosing a science which was utterly pointless.

What I actually needed was double the amount of Commerce and Business Studies lessons and more Maths lessons.

My eldest daughter was very artistic and she would’ve gained greatly from more focus on that area of her education.

With a lot of kids it’s very obvious by 11 years of age as to where their strengths are and the direction they should head but they are forced into doing pointless learning.

Metalwork, woodwork, sciences etc were completely wasted on me.

History and Geography were subjects I enjoyed but weren’t particularly talented at but have been useful in general life terms.

My syllabus should’ve been,

English Language

English Literature

Mathematics

Commerce

Business

Computer Studies

PE ( lots of additional PE )

Glad to hear your son is doing so well Abbo and you’re so right about plasterers, this is a £100k to £150k a year trade now for anyone willing to get their hands dirty and work hard.

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Originally Posted by mickd1961

Des is one of the most intelligent and well read people I’ve ever met and he didn’t go anywhere near a university.

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Being intelligent and being learned or educated are not the same thing, necessarily.

There are intelligent people who aren’t learned (being learned and not intelligent maybe a tad trickier…).

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Originally Posted by SwedishBaggie

Being intelligent and being learned or educated are not the same thing, necessarily.

There are intelligent people who aren’t learned (being learned and not intelligent maybe a tad trickier…).

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And there are plenty of intelligent people with zero common sense and poor life skills.

It works both ways.