Let Them All In - Poor Poor Devils

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robus

It surprises me how little the British understand the real dimensions of their demographic situation. They seem to assume that voting for Brexit and electing Tories solved the immigration problem, apart from this annoying aberration of channel-crossers. There is a widespread view that Britain depends upon immigration for skilled workers, especially for the NHS etc.

None of that is real. You've had about 50,000 channel crossers. A government with bottle could see them off in a week.
Your real problem is mass legal immigration. Labor never let in more than 650,000 per year, appalling as that is. Under Boris the Home Office has issued 2 million visas since COVID began. Skilled migrants to support your NHS? 450,000 of those visas were issued to international students to enter the country with their families!!! How many of those ever complete their studies? The British education industry doesn't care if they finish or drop out. There will be another million Visas next year.
=

---

If only we had an old scrap of paper a few hundred years old that said we could use assault rifles to defend ourselves. :-)

Mate, you're losing your country. There won't be an England for your grandkids.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mickd1961

The whole food bank thing winds me up and needs looking at.

These places are being abused in my opinion, each time they do a TV report from one of these places you see huge people being interviewed who say they’re barely able to eat and are going without food.

Too many are taking the p I s s and robbing food from the truly needy.

It’s impossible to be as fat as a lot of these people unless you’re putting huge numbers of calories in your body each day.

If I eat well and train well I’m around 11 stone 10 lbs, if however I can’t train due to injury and eat poorly for a month I tend to hit around 12 stone.

You ask anyone on here like Dubs or 923 who try to look after themselves like I do at almost 61 ( and now with a much slower metabolism) just how much effort it takes to put a stone on, it takes a lot of effort and over eating on a constant and sustained basis!

People are taking advantage.

People are also lazy in their shopping habits, my wife buys a lot of stuff which is close to or past sell by date for absolute peanuts and she uses farm shops as well.

Too many lazy bodies and lazy minded people in this country who just take the p I s s.

---

Totally agree Mick - these fatties will be amongst those screaming they have no food! It must be heartbreaking only to eat two triple McDonalds burgers a day followed by a Mcflurrie or two!

Even with food rocketing it’s still easy to eat healthily! Usually you see fat kids with fat parents and so bad that parents are not limiting the calories and serving up healthy food!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baggiematt

I do feel like you don’t consider external forces in your evaluation of the tories. Like they are fully responsible for food and petrol price increases or the national debt caused by the market crashes in response to but not caused by the Tories BTW.

This government is shocking in some areas but overall the tories have had to clean up a lot of mess from external forces that Labour never had to deal with. Its stupid to think we’d have all been dancing in the street if Labour remained in power post 2008.

Food banks are welfare in response to the current economic crisis.

---

I just can't agree with you here. Take a look at the food bank increase in 2015, before Brexit and way before the pandemic. One of the Government's roles is to provide a positive stimulus to the economy. I'm not saying the Tories are fully at fault, but there's no doubt they have contributed towards this cost of living crisis we find ourselves in by driving us towards a ridiculous Brexit for their own ends, not investing in business or business growth, and spaffing money up the wall.

So whilst yes we would have had increased inflation because of market conditions had another Government in place, the Tories have contributed to further worsening our economic position with their terrible economic policies.

Its okay though because there's no one else, apparently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WBA123

I just can't agree with you here. Take a look at the food bank increase in 2015, before Brexit and way before the pandemic. One of the Government's roles is to provide a positive stimulus to the economy. I'm not saying the Tories are fully at fault, but there's no doubt they have contributed towards this cost of living crisis we find ourselves in by driving us towards a ridiculous Brexit for their own ends, not investing in business or business growth, and spaffing money up the wall.

So whilst yes we would have had increased inflation because of market conditions had another Government in place, the Tories have contributed to further worsening our economic position with their terrible economic policies.

Its okay though because there's no one else, apparently.

---

It’s ok with the decline of our football club under Lai because no matter what many season ticket holders will renew apparently!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WBA123

I just can't agree with you here. Take a look at the food bank increase in 2015, before Brexit and way before the pandemic. One of the Government's roles is to provide a positive stimulus to the economy. I'm not saying the Tories are fully at fault, but there's no doubt they have contributed towards this cost of living crisis we find ourselves in by driving us towards a ridiculous Brexit for their own ends, not investing in business or business growth, and spaffing money up the wall.

So whilst yes we would have had increased inflation because of market conditions had another Government in place, the Tories have contributed to further worsening our economic position with their terrible economic policies.

Its okay though because there's no one else, apparently.

---

Surely furlough was the largest investment in business in UK history? Bailing out banks? The 2009 fiscal boost, along with austerity. They have invested heavily in business. The fact that we now have 1.3m vacancies demonstrates investment in business.

Brexit will have hindered progress but the people wanted Brexit...and what is a government if it doesn't serve it's people? You didn't want it but the majority of the country did.

No doubt people voted for it because of immigration. But immigration hasn't been managed well for years with different cultures poorly integrated leading to people wanting a Canadian or Australian style immigration system, which they are unable to attain with European freedom of movement; which our country has had no say on being part of the EU. If that's what the majority of the country want, why can't the country have it?

Would it have happened under Labour? Maybe, or maybe not...It really depends on if they took the bait on offering a referendum to settle the matter, but if not we might have had Farage as PM given how staunch people wanted a better immigration system and out of Europe. There are more things in life than temporary hindrance in economic growth. The Swiss have the most economic freedom in Europe, something to bear in mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baggiematt

Surely furlough was the largest investment in business in UK history? Bailing out banks? The 2009 fiscal boost, along with austerity. They have invested heavily in business. The fact that we now have 1.3m vacancies demonstrates investment in business.

Brexit will have hindered progress but the people wanted Brexit...and what is a government if it doesn't serve it's people? You didn't want it but the majority of the country did.

No doubt people voted for it because of immigration. But immigration hasn't been managed well for years with different cultures poorly integrated leading to people wanting a Canadian or Australian style immigration system, which they are unable to attain with European freedom of movement; which our country has had no say on being part of the EU. If that's what the majority of the country want, why can't the country have it?

Would it have happened under Labour? Maybe, or maybe not...It really depends on if they took the bait on offering a referendum to settle the matter, but if not we might have had Farage as PM given how staunch people wanted a better immigration system and out of Europe. There are more things in life than temporary hindrance in economic growth. The Swiss have the most economic freedom in Europe, something to bear in mind.

---

Eh?

In 2009, Labour were in power. Labour led the financial crisis recovery mostly when the banks went under. How does the fact we have 1.3m vacancies demonstrate investment in business? That is a really bizarre statement. We have lost a lot of European workers thanks to Brexit which has contributed to the vacancies and fruit rotting in fields and not enough workers in the care and logistics sectors.

People wanted Brexit you say...but did a majority of people want this Brexit? Most people who voted Leave didn't have a clue what they were voting for. Some wanted to stay in the Single Market, some didn't want a deal. We got Boris Johnsons 'Oven Ready' deal which is not quite as oven ready as he made out, as the Northern Ireland protocol is a mess with no obvious signs of a solution.

This is not a temporary hindrance in economic growth. This is self harm to our economy we are committing, over a long period of time. Many businesses will not recover, many have already gone under or moved HQs to Europe. But at least we've kept some Europeans out from picking fruit in our fields or handling our luggage in our airports. That's the real win.

So yes this Government is indefensibly terrible, Brexit is God awful. But the majority of this dim electorate obviously want it, so here we are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robus

It surprises me how little the British understand the real dimensions of their demographic situation. They seem to assume that voting for Brexit and electing Tories solved the immigration problem, apart from this annoying aberration of channel-crossers. There is a widespread view that Britain depends upon immigration for skilled workers, especially for the NHS etc.

None of that is real. You've had about 50,000 channel crossers. A government with bottle could see them off in a week.
Your real problem is mass legal immigration. Labor never let in more than 650,000 per year, appalling as that is. Under Boris the Home Office has issued 2 million visas since COVID began. Skilled migrants to support your NHS? 450,000 of those visas were issued to international students to enter the country with their families!!! How many of those ever complete their studies? The British education industry doesn't care if they finish or drop out. There will be another million Visas next year.

Native Britons will be a minority in their own country by the 2060s. Long before then, you will have lost everything that makes you a people and a nation.

Your country is being taken from you. Why are your leaders doing this to you? Why aren't you allowed to speak of it?

---

Still nothing else in your pathetic life other than to spread your hate on football forums you dingle racist c???.

Why don't you come back to good old blighty and save us all you fking hypocrite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WBA123

Eh?

In 2009, Labour were in power. Labour led the financial crisis recovery mostly when the banks went under. How does the fact we have 1.3m vacancies demonstrate investment in business? That is a really bizarre statement. We have lost a lot of European workers thanks to Brexit which has contributed to the vacancies and fruit rotting in fields and not enough workers in the care and logistics sectors.

People wanted Brexit you say...but did a majority of people want this Brexit? Most people who voted Leave didn't have a clue what they were voting for. Some wanted to stay in the Single Market, some didn't want a deal. We got Boris Johnsons 'Oven Ready' deal which is not quite as oven ready as he made out, as the Northern Ireland protocol is a mess with no obvious signs of a solution.

This is not a temporary hindrance in economic growth. This is self harm to our economy we are committing, over a long period of time. Many businesses will not recover, many have already gone under or moved HQs to Europe. But at least we've kept some Europeans out from picking fruit in our fields or handling our luggage in our airports. That's the real win.

So yes this Government is indefensibly terrible, Brexit is God awful. But the majority of this dim electorate obviously want it, so here we are.

---

I had my dates mixed up. A bit of Mandela Affect creeping in.

But the point remains, Labour were in power during better period than tories, no doubt. Even Thatcher came in during relative economic decline. They have had tough decisions to make due to economic uncertainty and incredible levels of necessary debt. They get met with absolute drivel of criticism about cuts to police and limited NHS spend from yourself and others.

How many workers do you think we have lost compared to the current level of immigration? I absolutely guarantee it’s not £1.3m because we still have immigration each year. Would we have that many vacancies vs a relatively low un employment rate if the grants and reduction in business rates weren’t used during the pandemic? Or Furlough?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by baggiematt

I had my dates mixed up. A bit of Mandela Affect creeping in.

But the point remains, Labour were in power during better period than tories, no doubt. Even Thatcher came in during relative economic decline. They have had tough decisions to make due to economic uncertainty and incredible levels of necessary debt. They get met with absolute drivel of criticism about cuts to police and limited NHS spend from yourself and others.

How many workers do you think we have lost compared to the current level of immigration? I absolutely guarantee it’s not £1.3m because we still have immigration each year. Would we have that many vacancies vs a relatively low un employment rate if the grants and reduction in business rates weren’t used during the pandemic? Or Furlough?

---

Labour gave us low inflation and ten consecutive years of economic growth from 97-07. There was a recession in the EU and the US in the early 2000s which we avoided.

I don't know why you keep bringing up furlough, virtually every developed country in the world offered some king of wage subsidy. Our Govt didn't do anything special or different to any other country. Other than handle the pandemic terribly.

I just don't understand your perspective that you think the Tories are doing job because of the high number of job vacancies. We always have had some amount of job vacancies in this country, without looking at the figures it was probably something like 500k-750k pre Tory Govt, and pre Brexit. That is a figure the country can cope with. Again, I'm just guessing, we've probably lost 250k-500k EU workers since the Brexit vote. That creates a level of job market where there isn't enough people to pick our fruit, serve us food, handle our baggage. And in turn that increases wages, and increases inflation. This is just simple economics. And you're praising the Government for this economic inadequacy.

As for the NHS and police, police numbers have decreased since 2010. NHS spend has gone down in real terms in the same period. You might call it drivel, but these are facts. The NHS figures between 2010 and now are like chalk and cheese. And in my view, a lot of the issues from Brexit and the Govts failings have been swept up under the rug by the pandemic. When in reality it is our Govts financial mismanagement and incompetence that is causing it.