OT - the current crisis

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Thanks for the reply

Not got time (genuinely) to respond to the first sentence ATM

Regarding the current 'discussion', I think (happy to be corrected) that you have treated my observation-based response to MA's comment as being partisan in some way rather than 'just' an observation. I hoped for a respnse along the lines of 'yes, I see your point', 'no, I see it differently', 'ah but what about...' or even (GP's) 'what the **** are you on about?' - basically offering something to expand on MA's comment to create a point for discussion. I've done this a number of times over the past few months and immediately been the subject of attacks for having an opinion not shared by one or more other posters. I'm usually only offering an observation, based on what I am grateful is a wide variety of folk I come across in my 'gig economy' semi-retired-but-not-quite life, which again I have tried to explain before.

Regarding the MA element of your comment, I see no problem in supporting a poster's well made comment or question, which I thought I did, whilst disagreeing with another comment by that poster (I thought the 'revolution' comment was a bit unrealistic/idealistic/daft/whatever, but let it pass as I don't respond to everything). Part of the problem with sensible debate we've had here is that stances have been taken for/against posters rather than for/against comments (and we all have become guilty of it)

Not sure what 'revolutionary thinkers' means to you but if you define it I'll agree or disagree and comment on whether its a good or bad thing

I definitely don't agree with the contradiction thing, again examples would be great

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Don’t know why you’d think I think you’re being ‘partisan’ or why you’d think you’re ‘attacked’. My comments, at least, are just in response.

‘Revolutionary thinkers’? Someone who speaks in support of revolution or someone who’s thoughts are revolutionary remembering that ‘revolution’ doesn’t have to be heat filled and violent.

The last thing any of us need at the moment is a return to civil disobedience via the ridiculous riots of the 80’s which achieved little if anything at all. Having said that I suspect there will be a far batter orchestrated and more productive campaign of civil disobedience before too long as the educated middle classes feel the pinch in a way they haven’t since the ‘80’s while being far more aware of the inequalities and examples of hypocrisy that are increasingly in evidence all around us.

Contradiction? You have, in my eyes become a walking contradiction. As an individual I’ve already explained how, to me, you’ve come across of late. To me you are one of the ‘thems’ who is suddenly seeking to identify with the ‘us’s’.
As a moderator there was a time when you operated as something of the voice of reason. Personally I don’t believe that to be the case anymore as you, for example, regularly seek to provoke Swale while you have been known to be peculiarly accommodating of, again as an example, DCFCA at his worst.

Of course, as you would doubtless say, these are just my observation based personal responses.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

The last thing any of us need at the moment is a return to civil disobedience via the ridiculous riots of the 80’s which achieved little if anything at all. Having said that I suspect there will be a far batter orchestrated and more productive campaign of civil disobedience before too long as the educated middle classes feel the pinch in a way they haven’t since the ‘80’s while being far more aware of the inequalities and examples of hypocrisy that are increasingly in evidence all around us.

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Sorry, in and out again, so if you want a response it'll be bit by bit

re this bit, have you got any evidence to back that up? And is it a balanced suspicion or is there an element of 'hope' in it? I could say I 'suspect' that HMG will (eventually) come up with a scheme which will alleviate the energy 'hit', the non-entrenched populace will accept that the world has been 'slipped a crippler' and we'll move on (albeit poorer) - but I won't say that, because, like you, I don't have a clue what will happen next.

Just as an anecdote though, I've done a morning of errands and odd jobs in and around my village and Burton today, and there's no evidence of unrest amongst the 'educated' (or for that matter what might be called 'less educated' (Jeez I have to be so careful about such categorizations with Swale around and that's not flippancy, that's serious)) middle classes, there's a queue at the chippy, the pub yard is chock-full, I've been struggling to find anyone to do a job on my car because everywhere is full up for weeks - yes such people are having a moan but they are 'getting on with it' - now, whether doing so in the same manner as the dinosaurs did before the comet hit only time will tell, but out in the actual world, no sign of unrest yet

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Sorry, in and out again, so if you want a response it'll be bit by bit

re this bit, have you got any evidence to back that up? And is it a balanced suspicion or is there an element of 'hope' in it? I could say I 'suspect' that HMG will (eventually) come up with a scheme which will alleviate the energy 'hit', the non-entrenched populace will accept that the world has been 'slipped a crippler' and we'll move on (albeit poorer) - but I won't say that, because, like you, I don't have a clue what will happen next.

Just as an anecdote though, I've done a morning of errands and odd jobs in and around my village and Burton today, and there's no evidence of unrest amongst the 'educated' (or for that matter what might be called 'less educated' (Jeez I have to be so careful about such categorizations with Swale around and that's not flippancy, that's serious)) middle classes, there's a queue at the chippy, the pub yard is chock-full, I've been struggling to find anyone to do a job on my car because everywhere is full up for weeks - yes such people are having a moan but they are 'getting on with it' - now, whether doing so in the same manner as the dinosaurs did before the comet hit only time will tell, but out in the actual world, no sign of unrest yet

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I concur, I just had a fence contractor round.
Had a quote for 6 K for a new fence. It added up reasonably with my sums and thought lets get it done.

"when can I have it"?

" about mid November mate. Got work coming out of our ears, worlds gone mad"

:?

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Originally Posted by Geoff Parkstone

Of course the beauty for you is that you are neither an us nor a them, but rather a Cloggie. Can we all come and live in your windmill until the heat dies down.

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Earlier this year my energy contract expired. It was €118 a month. Whilst exploring the market we were temporarily on the variable tariff which was €148. It started to look like prices were going to spike so we signed a new deal with our supplier for €162 for the coming 3 years. Then the government reduced the VAT on it and it went down to €147. Just had the annual settlement through.... we got 500 back and for the next 12 months our monthly bill is 110. Pure luck allied to good timing.

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Sorry, in and out again, so if you want a response it'll be bit by bit

re this bit, have you got any evidence to back that up? And is it a balanced suspicion or is there an element of 'hope' in it? I could say I 'suspect' that HMG will (eventually) come up with a scheme which will alleviate the energy 'hit', the non-entrenched populace will accept that the world has been 'slipped a crippler' and we'll move on (albeit poorer) - but I won't say that, because, like you, I don't have a clue what will happen next.

Just as an anecdote though, I've done a morning of errands and odd jobs in and around my village and Burton today, and there's no evidence of unrest amongst the 'educated' (or for that matter what might be called 'less educated' (Jeez I have to be so careful about such categorizations with Swale around and that's not flippancy, that's serious)) middle classes, there's a queue at the chippy, the pub yard is chock-full, I've been struggling to find anyone to do a job on my car because everywhere is full up for weeks - yes such people are having a moan but they are 'getting on with it' - now, whether doing so in the same manner as the dinosaurs did before the comet hit only time will tell, but out in the actual world, no sign of unrest yet

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Let me know when you can concentrate on more than one thing at a time. What I’m saying has nothing to do with the availability of fence contractors or mechanics. It has nothing to do with your unfounded fear of what Swale will say either which rather makes my case that you’ll take any opportunity to stir things up in that direction...but while you’re judging things by the bank holiday pubs and chippies, and your difficulty getting your car fixed I’d suggest the numbers on strike or threatening strike action, the consequences of the increase in energy prices and general reaction to the cost of living crisis might be equally good, if not better, indicators.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Let me know when you can concentrate on more than one thing at a time. What I’m saying has nothing to do with the availability of fence contractors or mechanics. It has nothing to do with your unfounded fear of what Swale will say either which rather makes my case that you’ll take any opportunity to stir things up in that direction...but while you’re judging things by the bank holiday pubs and chippies, and your difficulty getting your car fixed I’d suggest the numbers on strike or threatening strike action, the consequences of the increase in energy prices and general reaction to the cost of living crisis might be equally good, if not better, indicators.

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I genuinely feel sorry for folk who are busting a b*****k in low paid jobs and can’t/won’t be able to make ends meet but let’s go back to the first page of this thread. I made an observation in response to MA’s question ‘why do the rest of us accept this crap’ in essence by suggesting there isn’t a cohesive ‘us’ anymore, at least not in big enough numbers to create this ‘revolution’ that’s talked of. There’s no hooray from me about that and it may turn your stomach to hear it but IMO it’s a fact

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

I genuinely feel sorry for folk who are busting a b*****k in low paid jobs and can’t/won’t be able to make ends meet but let’s go back to the first page of this thread. I made an observation in response to MA’s question ‘why do the rest of us accept this crap’ in essence by suggesting there isn’t a cohesive ‘us’ anymore, at least not in big enough numbers to create this ‘revolution’ that’s talked of. There’s no hooray from me about that and it may turn your stomach to hear it but IMO it’s a fact

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It doesn’t ‘turn my stomach’ at all, Andy. To return to the first page...I’m pleased that you seem to be beginning to see the light...I’m just, as I’ve said all along, a little perplexed. ;)

... and all the while we are contemplating our navels over this, energy prices are going to go up by 80%. Ofgen has said that's the level of the cap but what that means, in reality, is that the 80% increase is what the suppliers will charge. Not necessarily because they have to but because Ofgen has made it possible.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

It doesn’t ‘turn my stomach’ at all, Andy. To return to the first page...I’m pleased that you seem to be beginning to see the light...I’m just, as I’ve said all along, a little perplexed. ;)

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And I’ll just have to leave you in that state

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Originally Posted by Andy_Faber

Sorry, in and out again, so if you want a response it'll be bit by bit

re this bit, have you got any evidence to back that up? And is it a balanced suspicion or is there an element of 'hope' in it? I could say I 'suspect' that HMG will (eventually) come up with a scheme which will alleviate the energy 'hit', the non-entrenched populace will accept that the world has been 'slipped a crippler' and we'll move on (albeit poorer) - but I won't say that, because, like you, I don't have a clue what will happen next.

Just as an anecdote though, I've done a morning of errands and odd jobs in and around my village and Burton today, and there's no evidence of unrest amongst the 'educated' (or for that matter what might be called 'less educated' (Jeez I have to be so careful about such categorizations with Swale around and that's not flippancy, that's serious)) middle classes, there's a queue at the chippy, the pub yard is chock-full, I've been struggling to find anyone to do a job on my car because everywhere is full up for weeks - yes such people are having a moan but they are 'getting on with it' - now, whether doing so in the same manner as the dinosaurs did before the comet hit only time will tell, but out in the actual world, no sign of unrest yet

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I would suggest that demonstrates that many people have yet to grasp what is actually going to happen when their electric and gas bills kick in. Which is to be expected because most of the middle income people haven't had to deal with financial hardship for years.

On the other hand it could just be that people who are comfortable now assume it won't affect them, I mean apparently 48% of people who responded to a recent poll. agreed with Truss and her view that the average UK worker was bone idle! More evidence that people doesn't think she meant them! Not us guv, yes those idle, scroungers but not me guv!!