England v North Macedonia

If anyone wants guaranteed entertainment from an England performance, I strongly recommend the James Graham play “Dear England” currently on in the West End. I saw it at the National and it’s one of the funniest, most moving plays I’ve seen in quite some time. Shows how Gareth Southgate changed the mind-set of England players, and turns Harry Kane’s robot-like emotions into comedy gold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Newish Pie

I dunno, I think this is the best squad of players England have had for a very long time. They were brilliant against Italy, but for the short time I bothered to watch, pretty awful against Malta and North Macedonia. Watching England used to be pretty much always boring... either laboured performances struggling to break down teams set out to defend, or struggling to string four passes together against decent opposition. The former is still true sometimes, but the latter... those games against Italy.. I never thought I'd see England performances like that against Italy... granted, they're not the Italy side of days gone by, but even so.

As regards Southgate... I think what he (and others) have done is break down all the old club cliques, built team spirit, reconnected with the fans, and made it fun rather than a chore to play for England. We've qualified for tournaments at a canter, and got out of the group stages regularly. As you'd expect with players of that quality at his disposal. I guess my question is... if not Southgate, then who? (Realistically).

---

Good post.

I like Gareth the man, and like you say, he has bought the FA, squad and fans together….as well as taking us deep into tournaments. But that’s where he falls short, his management of the final against Italy was naive at best. He deserves to take us to the euros but if he can’t take us to victory then I’d be tempted to roll the dice…..Graham Potter is available. He has more management experience than Southgate he when he took over.

You have to be careful what you wish for sometimes. It reminds me a bit of when Keith Curle took us to 7th in L1 and as a collective we wanted him out!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chicken Balti Pie

Southgate isn't the man for the job. People say he got us to within a penalty shootout of the Euros, he was the reason we didn't win it. It was crying out for a sub 10 mins before they equalised and then he made stupid subs just before the shoot out and not at the start of extra time to give the takers time to get into the game.

He's holding the team back

---

Totally agree.

Without a word of a lie, I believe the current Head Coach of Notts County has significantly more coaching/managerial ability than the current manager of England, and I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry about that reality.

I just watched a bit of the second half last night (I had found Ted Lasso so was watching that). The first thing that struck me was Burchnall - England played like Notts did under him.. pretty(ish), slow (comparatively) and seemingly lacking in ideas and a killer instinct. I like Southgate, and he has really changed the England set up for the better, but I wonder if he has taken things as far as he can and England now need someone with fresh ideas to take things to the next step, a bit like Luke Williams did when he took over from Birchnall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kent Magpie

I just watched a bit of the second half last night (I had found Ted Lasso so was watching that). The first thing that struck me was Burchnall - England played like Notts did under him.. pretty(ish), slow (comparatively) and seemingly lacking in ideas and a killer instinct. I like Southgate, and he has really changed the England set up for the better, but I wonder if he has taken things as far as he can and England now need someone with fresh ideas to take things to the next step, a bit like Luke Williams did when he took over from Birchnall.

---

Southgate was/is right about one thing. England needed to develop a possession football style to succeed, especially in major tournaments where success means playing every four/five days, so it's essential to conserve energy and make the ball do the work. The 'old' England team used to give the ball away very easily, and spent so much time chasing, that even if they made it through the group stage of a tournament, they were already knackered by the time they got to face stronger opponents in the knockout rounds.

The problem is that Gareth Southgate is not an especially good coach, and he's a very negative tactician. His only job in club football saw him create one of the most boring teams in Premier league history at Middlesbrough, and they got relegated. The pretence for giving him the England job was that he did well with the Under 21s, but if that's the criteria then the next England manager could be Aidy Boothroyd!

Everybody knows why Southgate has really got the job. He's the perfect lapdog for the English FA: undisruptive, smartly presented, says all the 'right' things to please corporate sponsors (etc) and gets just about enough from a phenomenally talented group of players to give the FA reasonable excuse not to change. In an organisation where steady mediocrity is the height of ambition, he's the perfect fit. Like it's parent FIFA, the FA doesn't so much run football as infest it. They're there primarily to line their pockets, not win tournaments, and that's a game Mr Corporate Southgate is clearly very skilled at.

That isa brilliant and I believe accurate way of looking at it. You can't say he hasn't help change England for the better, unless you are choosing to ignore what we saw under McClaren, Capello and Hodgson. It's chalk and cheese and for the better. Possession football significantly helps you win at World Cup and European Championship level.

However I believe he has taken us as far as he can, which is a better standing than before but not good enough to win the big one when it matters. Last shot for Southgate then I would get in someone new.

Finally to concentrate on the perfomances against Malta and North Macedonia when already qualified and put more weight on them than the games against Italy and Ukraine is just plain wrong in my honest opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jackal2

S

Everybody knows why Southgate has really got the job. He's the perfect lapdog for the English FA: undisruptive, smartly presented, says all the 'right' things to please corporate sponsors (etc) and gets just about enough from a phenomenally talented group of players to give the FA reasonable excuse not to change. In an organisation where steady mediocrity is the height of ambition, he's the perfect fit. Like it's parent FIFA, the FA doesn't so much run football as infest it. They're there primarily to line their pockets, not win tournaments, and that's a game Mr Corporate Southgate is clearly very skilled at.

---

I think that is a little harsh. He came in to change the culture - the relationship between the team set up and the press was toxic, between players and fans it was strained, between the FA and clubs was tolerated at best. He ahs changed all that for the better and everyone seems, for the most part, to be pulling in the same direction. He should take a lot of credit for that, because whilst the players are afraid to play, it doesn't matter how good a coach is in position they will never perform. He hasn't shied away from difficult subjects either and has created an open and trusting culture, which has probably gone a long way in driving the improvements we have seen over the past 6 or 7 years. This isn't enough to take things forwards now though, and maybe his talents in those areas should be rewarded with a different role within the set up and bring in a new coach who can move the playing side forward.