O/T DDay for Brexit..well sort of...

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Originally Posted by KerrAvon

So can I be clear about this raging: is it yours and Labour's position that the UK Parliament can't be trusted to be in charge of legislation on worker's rights and that we need to accept EU legislation that we would have no democratic control over?

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See response to animal. How does the EU stop us improving our worker /consumer/environment standards? It's the cutting of them that they prevent isn't it? A point that I'm sure you've made before to Brexiteers?

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Originally Posted by ragingpup

As I've said already, yes they could. But the EU standards, if you have them as a minimum standard, something that no party of any colour, could stoop below, then there is nothing to stop the labour party, or any party improving on them when in power. We have always been able to do this without eu interference. Haven't we?

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So, to be clear, your position, and that of Labour is that you want the country to be in a position where the EU makes laws that the UK is required to follow (enforced by which body? The ECJ?). And, in consequence of that, you and the Labour Party are saying that you are willing to have the British people made subject to laws over which they have no democratic control?

Those are questions that lend themselves to yes or no answers.

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Originally Posted by ragingpup

As I've said already, yes they could. But the EU standards, if you have them as a minimum standard, something that no party of any colour, could stoop below, then there is nothing to stop the labour party, or any party improving on them when in power. We have always been able to do this without eu interference. Haven't we?

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And that's the problem with the left of today , seeking refuge inside the minimum standard as you put it raging .

The same minimum standard that's full of opt outs and favours the neoliberal view .

Talk about accepting crumbs from the EU table .

Will we be getting updates from Westminster on the big acreen at the NYS tomorrow along with goal alerts from Exeter and Wigan.

We used to get told who had won the Grand National over the PA system at Millmoor

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Originally Posted by animallittle3

And that's the problem with the left of today , seeking refuge inside the minimum standard as you put it raging .

The same minimum standard that's full of opt outs and favours the neoliberal view .

Talk about accepting crumbs from the EU table .

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You and Kerrbaby haven't answered my question. In what way do the EU stop us improving our standards? And if we are unable to impose minimum standards of our own, to which all parties must abide (and there is no evidence of political will for this is there?) what difficulty do you see in retaining those that membership of the EU have improved regarding workers rights?

As a left wing person, after you not concerned by the change in position on the level playing field that have suddenly got the ERG on board?

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Originally Posted by ragingpup

You and Kerrbaby haven't answered my question. In what way do the EU stop us improving our standards? And if we are unable to impose minimum standards of our own, to which all parties must abide (and there is no evidence of political will for this is there?) what difficulty do you see in retaining those that membership of the EU have improved regarding workers rights?

As a left wing person, after you not concerned by the change in position on the level playing field that have suddenly got the ERG on board?

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You haven't answered my questions raging, so it looks like a bit of a stand off.

I'm old fashioned and want to be able to have some say (no matter how theoretical) in the laws that I am subject to. It seems that you and Labour don't share that view.

The Level Playing Field provisions have been moved to the Political Declaration (PD), because the May deal envisaged a Customs Union as a future relationship but Parliament heartily rejected that resulting in BoJo envisaging a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) as a future relationship. You seemed a bit confused about that yesterday.

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Originally Posted by ragingpup

You and Kerrbaby haven't answered my question. In what way do the EU stop us improving our standards? And if we are unable to impose minimum standards of our own, to which all parties must abide (and there is no evidence of political will for this is there?) what difficulty do you see in retaining those that membership of the EU have improved regarding workers rights?

As a left wing person, after you not concerned by the change in position on the level playing field that have suddenly got the ERG on board?

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The ERG / Tory government are capable of bringing anything in that pleases their big business funders raging .

I suppose if people sit on their backsides and simply moan about it then they deserve what they get in my opinion .

If people hadn't kicked off like they did in central london in 1990 we'd still have the poll tax , glad I was there as it made a change to win one at last .

I'm pretty much out of patience for the left and the Labour Party and their current refuge inside the EU .

Any self respecting leftie wouldn't trust the EU to give him the right time on their wrist watch .

How's the EU shaping up with the gig market and zero hours contracts ?

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Originally Posted by flourbasher

Will we be getting updates from Westminster on the big acreen at the NYS tomorrow along with goal alerts from Exeter and Wigan.

We used to get told who had won the Grand National over the PA system at Millmoor

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We'd suspect something was wrong if we got the result of the grand national over the pa system now fb, as it isn't run until after the 3-00 ko matches finish >;)

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Originally Posted by KerrAvon

You haven't answered my questions raging, so it looks like a bit of a stand off.

I'm old fashioned and want to be able to have some say (no matter how theoretical) in the laws that I am subject to. It seems that you and Labour don't share that view.

The Level Playing Field provisions have been moved to the Political Declaration (PD), because the May deal envisaged a Customs Union as a future relationship but Parliament heartily rejected that resulting in BoJo envisaging a Free Trade Agreement (FTA) as a future relationship. You seemed a bit confused about that yesterday.

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Did anyone tell May that her deal envisaged a customs union as a future relationship? Where did you get that from? What evidence do you have for it?

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Originally Posted by animallittle3

The ERG / Tory government are capable of bringing anything in that pleases their big business funders raging .

I suppose if people sit on their backsides and simply moan about it then they deserve what they get in my opinion .

If people hadn't kicked off like they did in central london in 1990 we'd still have the poll tax , glad I was there as it made a change to win one at last .

I'm pretty much out of patience for the left and the Labour Party and their current refuge inside the EU .

Any self respecting leftie wouldn't trust the EU to give him the right time on their wrist watch .

How's the EU shaping up with the gig market and zero hours contracts ?

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But animal, you seem to be avoiding the question. Are you not concerned that these basic standards, that could be kept in of we choose, have been moved to non legal fta? Why do you think that is and are you not the least bit concerned, having seen what had happened in the lst 40 years that there is a big hit on worker /consumer/environment standards coming? Not the least bit concerned? Or are you a complete no dealer and want wto only with no eu trade at all?