OT. Schools...normality and Coronavirus.

Tricky...no one but no one hammered Corbyn like you did...some of it was justified...some of it not, but please don’t now criticise me for ‘repetitive Tory bashing’ and accuse me of getting ‘arsey when someone doesn’t take your line of approach’ with your track record.

Being irritated by GP has nothing to do with disagreement...he doesn’t disagree, he doesn’t offer an argument at all anymore...just moans sarcastically at those who do have an opinion (see above). It’s a pity.

I would actually agree if they had ‘taken a hard line stance’, as you suggest. All this indecisiveness, contradiction, inconsistency and reluctance to put actual rules in place is what is causing such damage imo.

Finally, I haven’t called you ‘thick’ and have never used the nickname, ‘Thicky’...but you’re asking the wrong question, again imo.
Who ‘should you have voted for’...not for me to say, we’d probably (almost certainly) disagree and it isn’t really relevant because the Covid crisis was unheard of at the time of the last election.

Having said that...you have suggested that no one ‘thinks they aren’t a shower’. I agree...as, according to you, do most people.
Given that circumstance and given that the likes of Williamson, Hancock, Gove, Patel and Raab all appear hopelessly inadequate and out of their depth, might it not be worth considering a temporary coalition government or at least a Covid task force made up of independent scientists and cross Party politicians?

It’s surely got to be an improvement on what we’ve got at the moment which you, by implication, have criticised just as much as me.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Tricky...no one but no one hammered Corbyn like you did...some of it was justified...some of it not, but please don’t now criticise me for ‘repetitive Tory bashing’ and accuse me of getting ‘arsey when someone doesn’t take your line of approach’ with your track record.

Being irritated by GP has nothing to do with disagreement...he doesn’t disagree, he doesn’t offer an argument at all anymore...just moans sarcastically at those who do have an opinion (see above). It’s a pity.

I would actually agree if they had ‘taken a hard line stance’, as you suggest. All this indecisiveness, contradiction, inconsistency and reluctance to put actual rules in place is what is causing such damage imo.

Finally, I haven’t called you ‘thick’ and have never used the nickname, ‘Thicky’...but you’re asking the wrong question, again imo.
Who ‘should you have voted for’...not for me to say, we’d probably (almost certainly) disagree and it isn’t really relevant because the Covid crisis was unheard of at the time of the last election.

Having said that...you have suggested that no one ‘thinks they aren’t a shower’. I agree...as, according to you, do most people.
Given that circumstance and given that the likes of Williamson, Hancock, Gove, Patel and Raab all appear hopelessly inadequate and out of their depth, might it not be worth considering a temporary coalition government or at least a Covid task force made up of independent scientists and cross Party politicians?

It’s surely got to be an improvement on what we’ve got at the moment which you, by implication, have criticised just as much as me.

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That's a fair response, thank you.

I don't agree with the coalition thing though.
We basically had a coaltion government before the election. Remind me again how that went for getting something done?

Sorry, but a government is elected and has to live / die by its term in office.
COVID does not justify undermining that. Though I am sure there are politicians out there, just itching for a crack at that, knowing they will never get near Downing street.
Ultimately, the Conservatives and Johnson will be judged by the next ballot box.
I think my point is, concerning that. I still haven't seen anything to compete yet with them.
British politics is a shambles and again it really should be Labour surging in the pols with the governments handling.
But, just like under Corbyn, it remains a complete mess and will stay so until it is purged of the far left. I heard a good phrase the other day that Labour sees the white, working man as the enemy instead of as an ally?
It is obsessed with minority causes, that are isolating them.
So bad as you feel they are, the Tories will cling to that support, until it sorts its house out.

"might it not be worth considering a temporary coalition government or at least a Covid task force made up of independent scientists and cross Party politicians?"

I would not altogether disagree with that, but that should have happened back in March if it was going to have had any point to is, but:

(a) Corbyn was in charge then, and why would you think he and his acolytes would have done any better of a job than Boris and his acolytes;
(b) Regardless of Corbyn, why do you think any members of the current opposition front bench (and a token libdem for balance) would do any better if a cooperative approach were adopted?

The medical advisers would still be the same, the civil servants and back up resources would have been the same, it would have been the same allegedly underfunded NHS handling things. Bad examples of personal behaviour existed in both political camps So I will assert with reasonable confidence that, regardless of colour of rosette, all politicians would flounder in the face of a situation that noone had ever encountered in any of our lives. And i dont blame them. The gravity of the situation any politician would find themselves in via COVID would likely overwhelm them. To me its unlikely we would have got any better decision making in a coalition, and if anything, would have seen even more points scoring in an internecine coalition war.

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

Adi...I’m no fan of many aspects of the press/media...but you can’t really blame them for telling the truth and exposing wrongdoing can you?

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Exactly the kind of response I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by AdiSalisbury

Exactly the kind of response I'm talking about.

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Sorry Adi, I don’t know what that means. I don’t believe everything the press/media writes...but when genuine investigative journalism exposes wrongdoing/hypocrisy...isn’t that a good thing?

Tricky...your comments about the ‘white working man’ and ‘minorities’ are just a myth imo.

GP...welcome back. Must have been all of...two hours. ;D
I, as you know, never had much faith in Corbyn.
I think Keir Starmer, Lisa Nandy, and, although I know he’s currently not an MP but he is an experienced former Health Secretary and this is a crisis, Andy Burnham all spring to mind as having more ability, credibility and better communication skills than those I mentioned earlier.

I disagree about the scientists. It has been very noticeable that the ‘Chief Nurse’, can’t remember her name, has not been seen since she refused to sanction the action of Cummings.
Those that do appear on TV seem to have to agree with the politicians and, coincidentally, I do have amongst my acquaintances a couple of quite senior drug company employees. They both know Valance - and while both disapprove of Johnson they would both be equally scathing about Corbyn so there is no party political issue here - and both are of the opinion that he is an expert communicator but otherwise little more than a knowledgeable ‘yes man’.

I have no idea how true, or otherwise, that is, but we don’t need ‘yes men’. We need genuine independent experts who are uncluttered by either ambition or political motivation.

As regards ‘bad examples of personal behaviour’. You’re right and there was one particular Asian Labour MP, name forgotten I’m afraid, who I agreed with Tricky about in terms of irresponsibility. Unfortunately there is only one Party of Government and when it is our leaders, or those very close to them, who break the rules they themselves set (or suggest) it seems so much worse to me.

Unfortunately, and possibly leading to our collectively entrenched views becoming even more so, I don’t think ANY of those in a position to influence the Covid outcome in the U.K. has done especially well. The scientists have already admitted they got the whole ‘herd immunity’ thing wrong and followed that up with not recommending lockdown til it was too late. The government have been too dogmatic, too many decisions have been TOO slavishly in line with ‘expert’ advice and the result has been some absolutely contrary actions. The media have pulled strings according to their in house agendas rather than provide a united message and have themselves been mugged (or allowed themselves to be mugged) by the BAME/BLM angle. The opposition have flip flopped as usual. The Scottish Government have ‘played’ the U.K. govt knowing the media will back their every difference in strategy. And the U.K. general public have in way too great a number decided they are a special case (tw*ts on beaches, BLM virtue signallers etc), what a mess, and everyone blaming everyone else. Still, could be worse we could be living in South Africa

I'll answer with your own words...

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Originally Posted by ramAnag

I know for a fact that, the weekend after news of the Cummings case ‘broke’, the police were inundated with examples of people giving their name as ‘Dominic Cummings’ and saying ‘if he can drive from London to Durham don’t think you can tell me where I can go’...or words to that effect.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdiSalisbury

I'll answer with your own words...

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So what are you suggesting? That there should have been a cover up? That the media should take a vow of silence over wrongdoing/rule breaking where influential individuals are concerned?

That seems a very dangerous road to follow to me, Adi.

Only one person to blame for Cummings’ actions...and that’s Cummings himself. The fact that the PM was made to look stupid by his handling of it was not, imo, the fault of the media.

So I ask again..

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Originally Posted by AdiSalisbury

...is that responsibility not shared by our media who made the incident public?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdiSalisbury

So I ask again..

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No...that’s there job. They need to do it responsibly, I accept...but the job of a ‘free press’ in a ‘free country’ is to report the truth.