O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

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Originally Posted by navypie

Oh dear, typical whinging from the lefty losers.

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Originally Posted by drillerpie

Navy if you're reading this your account has been hacked by Soccerman.

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Wait till I get me 2m's long artificial hands on him.

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Originally Posted by navypie

Oh dear, typical whinging from the lefty losers.

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Have compassion Jolly Jack ......... It's not nice being a recurring failure. I don't mind the Lefties whinging and pontificating because time after time they appear to fail despite the words and views they continually spout. You've got EP quacking at every opportunity and Sid with his pearls of wisdom (chortle!) but the end result stays the same .... they lose. Of course these fine gentlemen have lived a lifetime of hard graft and understand the 'working man' mantra better than any. I can't quite comprehend why Nottinghamshire with all it's past history of real hard grafters, especially the miners in their thousands, now has 8 Tory MP's compared to a miserable 3 for the Socialists. Indeed EP's own Broxtowe constituency returned a Tory who nobody had really heard of, despite The Socialist's Greg Marshall being a local guy and the benefit of only just losing to Soubry in 2017........ strange eh? Oh yes I forgot ..... Brexit plus the many lies Boris told convinced the Nottinghamshire electorate to vote the way they did which makes them all ignorant doesn't it EP? Possibly they didn't get the education you received.

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Originally Posted by Notts78

I have put my thoughts in with yours Driller.

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Couldn't agree more about domestic production of PPE.

About hand shaking and the timing of the lockdown, I agree that locking a country down, something which now seems normal, a couple of months ago was a massive, almost unimaginable step. But I would say that a good way to get people to take it seriously is to not carry on as normal, not shake hands with people, not tour a hospital without a mask.

I think (and it's just my opinion, mostly speculation as well) that politics played into both these decisions. If you look at which leaders have made a point of continuing to meet people, not wear masks etc, it's the populists: Trump, Bolsonaro, Johnson. I think Boris is superior to the other two in almost every conceivable way, but he does share a kind politics with them which is about gut feeling and emotion rather than facts. Better to inspire optimism than to invite prudence. Being the type of person he is I'm sure when he was visiting that hospital that he also saw himself as a bit of a Churchill smoking a cigar on the roof while sticking two fingers up at the Luftwaffe.

I think it's the same story with the lockdown. He probably knew it was inevitable, but didn't want to do it as it was unpopular. He's a populist - he can't take unpopular measures, even if they work out better in the long run. I think he waited until the clamour for a lockdown was so strong that he was seen as the good guy for doing it.

Anyway thanks for the refreshingly pleasant exchange of views.

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Originally Posted by Elite_Pie

For me, the 'leadership' hit a disturbing new low the other day, when the utterly useless Matt Hancock actually did a great Donald Trump impersonation! He congratulated himself profusely for achieving what he described as an "audacious target" of 100,000 tests per day. His claim was proved to be a complete lie, but it was the self-congratulatory tone that was sickening. It seemed a definite move towards Trumpism, where you make a complete f@ck up of the situation but tell people you have done a brilliant job in the hope that some dimwits are sucked in. I just wonder whether this outright lying came from Hancock himself, or whether it is now a strategy decided by the leader (Dominic Cummings).
With the failure by our government becoming more apparent by the day*, expect to see and hear more of this.

* Note to Soccerman, seriouspie, TheBlackHorse & Co. I know you will never, ever consider that a single word of criticism against this government might be valid, so allow me to help you out with your excuses:

1. We are the only country being honest with the figures, all the others are lying.
2. It would have been even worse with Corbyn in charge.
3. Typical whinging from lefty losers.

Are there any I've missed?

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Originally Posted by Disturbed

* Note to Soccerman, seriouspie, TheBlackHorse & Co. I know you will never, ever consider that a single word of criticism against this government might be valid, so allow me to help you out with your excuses:

1. We are the only country being honest with the figures, all the others are lying.
2. It would have been even worse with Corbyn in charge.
3. Typical whinging from lefty losers.

Are there any I've missed?

So excuse 1 has not been ticked off. Where have I said that other countries have not been honest with their figures? All I pointed out was the figures are not a direct comparison due to the difference in reporting.
Over 30000 deaths is far too many, that I agree with, and could have been reduced with a different approach, but until the same reporting criteria is used, then a direct comparison in the numbers of deaths should not be used for any argument purpose

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I wouldn't worry about what that tw@ts got to say. He calls them excuses, I call them having a difference of opinion.

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Originally Posted by drillerpie

Couldn't agree more about domestic production of PPE.

About hand shaking and the timing of the lockdown, I agree that locking a country down, something which now seems normal, a couple of months ago was a massive, almost unimaginable step. But I would say that a good way to get people to take it seriously is to not carry on as normal, not shake hands with people, not tour a hospital without a mask.

I think (and it's just my opinion, mostly speculation as well) that politics played into both these decisions. If you look at which leaders have made a point of continuing to meet people, not wear masks etc, it's the populists: Trump, Bolsonaro, Johnson. I think Boris is superior to the other two in almost every conceivable way, but he does share a kind politics with them which is about gut feeling and emotion rather than facts. Better to inspire optimism than to invite prudence. Being the type of person he is I'm sure when he was visiting that hospital that he also saw himself as a bit of a Churchill smoking a cigar on the roof while sticking two fingers up at the Luftwaffe.

I think it's the same story with the lockdown. He probably knew it was inevitable, but didn't want to do it as it was unpopular. He's a populist - he can't take unpopular measures, even if they work out better in the long run. I think he waited until the clamour for a lockdown was so strong that he was seen as the good guy for doing it.

Anyway thanks for the refreshingly pleasant exchange of views.

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Same to you Driller.

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Originally Posted by Notts78

I have put my thoughts in with yours Driller.

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The only thing I would say about the lockdown, Notts78, is that Leo Varadkar did it here, did it earlier, and did it right before St Patrick's Day of all things, and my dear old mother back in Blighty is banging on about how she's glad I'm over here now as she's seen that Ireland has something like the second best record for managing the pandemic behind the Solomon Islands every time I ring her.

I'd be intrigued if anyone is going to suggest that the Irish love of the pub is less than anyone elses!!

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Originally Posted by pingu_pie

The only thing I would say about the lockdown, Notts78, is that Leo Varadkar did it here, did it earlier, and did it right before St Patrick's Day of all things, and my dear old mother back in Blighty is banging on about how she's glad I'm over here now as she's seen that Ireland has something like the second best record for managing the pandemic behind the Solomon Islands every time I ring her.

I'd be intrigued if anyone is going to suggest that the Irish love of the pub is less than anyone elses!!

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PS - I concur with driller (who made some great points) - it was indeed good to see two people actually debate with respect!

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Originally Posted by Notts78

Just out of curiosity, with what you now know (you have the benefit of hindsight), what would you have done differently?
Question extended to Elite as well.

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What other countries who have tackled this issue far better than us have done.

Imposed the lockdown earlier instead of telling people to wash their hands a lot.
Followed the WHO advice to "test, test, test" instead of ignoring it.
Proactively sourced and distributed PPE early instead of letting other countries get in first.

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Originally Posted by navypie

I wouldn't worry about what that tw@ts got to say.

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Are you feeling hormonal again sailor boy?

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Originally Posted by seriouspie

Have compassion Jolly Jack ......... It's not nice being a recurring failure. I don't mind the Lefties whinging and pontificating because time after time they appear to fail despite the words and views they continually spout. You've got EP quacking at every opportunity and Sid with his pearls of wisdom (chortle!) but the end result stays the same .... they lose. Of course these fine gentlemen have lived a lifetime of hard graft and understand the 'working man' mantra better than any. I can't quite comprehend why Nottinghamshire with all it's past history of real hard grafters, especially the miners in their thousands, now has 8 Tory MP's compared to a miserable 3 for the Socialists. Indeed EP's own Broxtowe constituency returned a Tory who nobody had really heard of, despite The Socialist's Greg Marshall being a local guy and the benefit of only just losing to Soubry in 2017........ strange eh? Oh yes I forgot ..... Brexit plus the many lies Boris told convinced the Nottinghamshire electorate to vote the way they did which makes them all ignorant doesn't it EP? Possibly they didn't get the education you received.

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Does all that bullsh!t mean that you classed yourself as a loser when Blair was winning 3 elections?