O/T Democracy

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Originally Posted by animallittle3

Well so far we've managed to know what you do but I'm still waiting for the important bit ...... the part where you nail it and walk the walk .

Have another go .

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What do you want me to nail?

Be clear. I’ll do my best.

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Originally Posted by animallittle3

I believe this country has only known capitalism raging because as far as I'm aware we haven't ever been governed under a Marxist model .

The Labour Government after the second world war who built a huge amount of social housing ( so did the tories too when they regained power ) , created the NHS and the welfare state didn't as far as I can see make them communist governments , they were socially progressive and did so because there was a need .

Neoliberalism doesn't recognise such needs unless a huge profit can be gained from it , they only see life as one big business and investing in people is totally alien to them .

If you want me to invent a system that solves every issue we in the UK have today then I'm not going to be able to do that , mind you that said if you ask 10 economists to make a forecast then you will receive 10 different answers so perhaps they themselves aren't so clever either .

We are at a stage I feel where we were in 1948 with the working class in this country , they need investing in and badly , for many young people owning a home isn't going to happen but that doesn't mean they should have to accept poor rental homes with sky high rents either .

The current state of our services and the NHS need no further comment from me and its remarkable how run down and not fit for purpose they become under Neoliberal style governments , this isn't about cutting our cloth at all as Cameron tried to tell you this was a political choice because it doesn't chime with his or post 1979 tory governments .

If it doesn't make money then it's not worth investing in as I said previously the neoliberals don't do investing in people .

Neoliberalism has absolutely no place in our society , none what so ever .

Capitalism with proper investment in the needs of everyday people I can live with , Blair's life on benefits isn't investment by the way , that's just Labour hiding behind the Neoliberal umbrella and where Corbyn is going spectacularly wrong in the Brexit Heartlands .

You invest in people you create a better society , a more productive society a more motivated society and the benefits are obvious .

You cut and cut and cut back again and again and you isolate people , they then feel left out and they feel left behind , fertile ground for the right wing ideology to pounce upon , history has many examples .

So how do you tackle defeating the Neoliberal ideology ?

The same way they won the battle .

Now this is where I do agree with Corbyn , you challenge the mindset and change how people are currently programmed to think .

You robustly attack the extreme just like the Neoliberals did with social progressive policies , trade unions etc etc .

You turn the tax evaders in to the NUM , the Philip Greens and Mike Ashleys in to Jimmy Reed and Arthur Scargill , the bankers crashing the economy and austerity spin off as an industry of liability the country can no longer afford just like they did with the UK's major heavy industries and you pin the country as it stands today , fractured divided and the dirty man of europe right at their doorstep .

You get yourself elected and you give them what they gave us in the 80's and you end up with the balance you need .

You play fecking dirty , hardball and you knock these bstrds off their entitled perch .

This isn't about settling old scores this is about right and wrong because I'll tell you now we aren't where we are today just because of one referendum , this goes right to the core of what we are seeing today .and the idea of a sinan l

Now that's my taking back control starting with those feckers in Brussels , that's just the beginning .

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Thanks for a thoughtful and detailed post animal. Appreciate it.

I guess a key difference between us is that i see the EU as less significant in defining UK destiny. Id like to think we were able to choose a destiny of our own that was superior in standards to our neighbours, but different management in the last 50 years indicate that the UK isn't, and would elect for worse standards if left to our own devices. I think an incoming labour government, based on last manifesto ideas, and free from the devisive **** storm juggernaut that is brexit, could be trusted to enhance workers standards. I hope we get to see the day.

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Originally Posted by howdydoo

It’s the culture.

We don’t make anything. Not that’s massed produced.

Blame whatever you want: training, unions, education etc etc We all have our opinion but I’m telling you straight: we are lagging years behind the Europeans and they are playing us.

We still, just about, have the technological skills but the mindset has to change.

PS. Bravo for paying higher tax from a salary I guess paid for, by the tax payer. I’ve just got a 6 figure tax bill for keeping 20 people in work (who now continue to pay tax) in a company that never paid any tax for 10 years (losses) that’s now profitable.

If only I could decide where that money is spent, I wouldn’t give a ****.

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That's all well and good howdy, and I appreciate that. But you insinuated that I don't contribute and I tell you that I contribute high level tax proudly in a sector that is also proud to produce a well adjusted, rounded workforce for future years, and I personally manage large numbers of workers. I can see the correlation between a successful business, with happy employees working hard, and an exploitative place where people feel badly treated and do as little as possible. That's the bottom line and that I think goes on quite a lot. It's all in saying. Why do you seem so hostile to that perception? It seems to strangely rattle you?

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Originally Posted by ragingpup

Thanks for a thoughtful and detailed post animal. Appreciate it.

I guess a key difference between us is that i see the EU as less significant in defining UK destiny. Id like to think we were able to choose a destiny of our own that was superior in standards to our neighbours, but different management in the last 50 years indicate that the UK isn't, and would elect for worse standards if left to our own devices. I think an incoming labour government, based on last manifesto ideas, and free from the devisive **** storm juggernaut that is brexit, could be trusted to enhance workers standards. I hope we get to see the day.

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How exactly would they enhance workers standards, apart from bringing legislation out to protect workers rights.
They can do that out of the EU IF they won an election.

We’re light years behind Germany and France, technology, a solid manufacturing core not too reliant on the service sector, apprenticeships, workers rights and more.

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Originally Posted by BigLadonOS

The true effect of immigration is seen in housing, healthcare, crime and education more than jobs and is the main reason I voted to leave.

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Ding dong.

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Originally Posted by BigLadonOS

You should really have held your hands up and stopped at the bit above but also added that yes you are correct BIGLAD and people voting remain had as much clue as those voting leave.

The rest of the reply is yet again more theory and nothing more but you just cannot resist can you.

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You are confusing processes with outcome.

International trading agreements like the EU, WTO, ASEAN and Trade Deals create the legal framework, infrastructure and processes under which companies in different countries import and export. It does not guarantee an outcome (whether they make a profit from those trading relationships).

If we stay in the EU we will know exactly the terms and conditions under which we operate worldwide.

If we leave on 31st Oct we still do not know any of the terms and conditions under which we will be expected to trade internationally.

The ballot paper simply asked whether we would prefer to Leave or Remain. We voted leave. The terms under which we leave is still open to debate.

It is really as simple as that. Unless you know different.

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Originally Posted by ragingpup

That's all well and good howdy, and I appreciate that. But you insinuated that I don't contribute and I tell you that I contribute high level tax proudly in a sector that is also proud to produce a well adjusted, rounded workforce for future years, and I personally manage large numbers of workers. I can see the correlation between a successful business, with happy employees working hard, and an exploitative place where people feel badly treated and do as little as possible. That's the bottom line and that I think goes on quite a lot. It's all in saying. Why do you seem so hostile to that perception? It seems to strangely rattle you?

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Go to China, Africa and South America if you want to see exploitation.

Of course exploitation exists here but the lines are becoming ever more hazy about who/where/how.

It’s all skewed.

I’m rattled. How is your success measured Raging?

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Originally Posted by CASPER-64-FRANK

How exactly would they enhance workers standards, apart from bringing legislation out to protect workers rights.
They can do that out of the EU IF they won an election.

We’re light years behind Germany and France, technology, a solid manufacturing core not too reliant on the service sector, apprenticeships, workers rights and more.

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I've already said, several times, that I would be relaxed about leaving the EU (with the exception of the considerable economic risk based on Yellowhammer etc) in terms of workers/consumer/environmental standards, as I trust labour not only to uphold EU standards but yes indeed enhance them. At the moment they are looking at implications of a 4 day working week to enhance work/life balance and productivity.

But, as again I've said several times, I do not trust the new management of the Tory party, completely free of EU legislation, and especially armed with the excuse of a new recession brought on by leaving the EU, to take a hatchet even to the basic EU standards. I would go as far as saying that this brand of 'disaster capitalism' is what is behind the sponsors of the 'new management', looking to slash taxes and assets as means to make quick profits. But, just so BL is clear, that's just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by howdydoo

Go to China, Africa and South America if you want to see exploitation.

Of course exploitation exists here but the lines are becoming ever more hazy about who/where/how.

It’s all skewed.

I’m rattled. How is your success measured Raging?

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China, Africa and South America
What is it about these places that is missing Howdy?

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Originally Posted by howdydoo

Go to China, Africa and South America if you want to see exploitation.

Of course exploitation exists here but the lines are becoming ever more hazy about who/where/how.

It’s all skewed.

I’m rattled. How is your success measured Raging?

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Some that leap to mind on which I'm personally responsible for are:

Number of students retained to end of course and successfully completing their study
Retention of best teachers and supports
Student progressing into next stage of education/employment
Student satisfaction with experience
Parent satisfaction with experience
Staff satisfaction with experience
Year on year growth of student numbers and courses to develop business
Ofsted reports on the quality of our education and other external reports/audits
Increased closure of achievement gaps in community
Growing and maintaining links with local employers to increase apprenticeship provision