O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

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Originally Posted by OchPie

Starmer went to restore an anti-Nazi memorial. The "former Communist figure" was also a junior minister in Churchill's wartime government.

Neither Starmer nor Reeves are communist. They are barely socialist. They

That's not communism at all ;) The core principle, at least in Marx's imagining, is that each person should receive according to their need, and the means of production should be jointly owned to facilitate that. This doesn't actually work in practice.



The US doesn't have such sub judice rules because of the 1st Amendment. But plenty of other countries, including Canada and Australia, have rules restricting reporting and/or discussion in Parliament on live criminal cases.

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Centre Left ? Really ?
As John McEnroe famously said " you cannot be serious ."
I don't think many Canadians would be sorry to see the back of Trudeau either.
Alessandr Solzhenitsyn also made a memorable statement concerning a communist state , law breakers being free and political opponents being imprisoned .
Our dear leader also allegedly championed "The Free Press " recently, as the lifeblood of democracy.
Fake news , non reported events and censored comments being the norm these days ?
Make of it what you will.

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Originally Posted by TheBlackHorse

... oh dear Ochpie ... time you did some homework. Herr Sturmer died in the wool commie control freak. Plays by the rule book, his rule book. Our beloved Chancellor never done a proper job in her life, just slimed her way into the BOE from uni.

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I tend to do homework by reading, not imagining things... Starmer has a paternalistic streak (or an autocratic streak if you prefer), as many across the political spectrum do, but that's hardly communist. Does he want to nationalise the means of production? No. He's a capitalist-with-controls social democrat.

She worked with the structural economic analysis division at BOE before moving to HBOS. Not sure what you mean by "proper job", but if you are saying nobody who works for a retail bank has one, quite a few of my friends will take offence.

And wow, organisation has graduate scheme. How crazy. As someone who also joined a graduate scheme (not at BoE) I really don't know what you are on about.

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Originally Posted by SinceSept1959

Centre Left ? Really ?
As John McEnroe famously said " you cannot be serious ."

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Completely serious. It's a struggle even to call him a socialist. He's miles away from being a communist.

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Originally Posted by OchPie

That's not communism at all ;) The core principle, at least in Marx's imagining, is that each person should receive according to their need, and the means of production should be jointly owned to facilitate that. This doesn't actually work in practice.

I said 'A' not 'the'.

The US doesn't have such sub judice rules because of the 1st Amendment. But plenty of other countries, including Canada and Australia, have rules restricting reporting and/or discussion in Parliament on live criminal cases.

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I trained as a lawyer, I can see the difference between the genuine, proper use of the law and it's deployment as a convenient shield to prevent the asking of awkward questions.

The questions people want answered, are not to do with the crime itself, rather a 'who knew what when'. The public are fed a diet of lies to keep them sedated. Three more Pakistani men (brothers) convicted of grooming and ***ual offences against white, children this week but have we heard about it? Search 'Pakistani brothers convicted of grooming' on the BBC and seen what results you get.

https://www.easterneye.biz/brothers-...-***ual-abuse/

Colour, race is irrelevant, however, there are cultural differences which are incompatible with life in the UK.

Meanwhile, Tommy Robinson, whatever you think of him, continues to be victimised by the Government. He's now been moved from Belmarsh to Woodhill where, without cause, he's in the punishment block with no exercise, open visits or association and where he has a history of being attacked by Muslims.

The government is setting him up to get murdered in prison by one of the Muslim gangs who are said to 'run' many UK prisons.

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Originally Posted by Med Pie

I said 'A' not 'the'.

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Yeah, and I said THE core principle is the exact opposite of what you claimed A core principle to be.

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Originally Posted by Med Pie

I trained as a lawyer, I can see the difference between the genuine, proper use of the law and it's deployment as a convenient shield to prevent the asking of awkward questions.

The questions people want answered, are not to do with the crime itself, rather a 'who knew what when'. The public are fed a diet of lies to keep them sedated. Three more Pakistani men (brothers) convicted of grooming and ***ual offences against white, children this week but have we heard about it? Search 'Pakistani brothers convicted of grooming' on the BBC and seen what results you get.

https://www.easterneye.biz/brothers-...-***ual-abuse/

Colour, race is irrelevant, however, there are cultural differences which are incompatible with life in the UK.

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If you trained as a lawyer, surely you must recognise that "who knew what and when" links directly to the investigative techniques used and the timing of evidence collection, which itself can be *****ly important in a criminal case? Of course in some cases it may not be, and if that is so the judge can lift reporting restrictions. That's how it is supposed to work, which for someone trained as a lawyer, you should know.

Took less than ten seconds of googling to find: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz0mrz5ln3eo

Most grooming gangs in the UK are made up of white men. What "cultural differences" do you blame that on? Or do you just think the victims of white grooming gangs should shut up and be ignored because that's not a "cultural difference" to talk about?

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Originally Posted by OchPie

I tend to do homework by reading, not imagining things... Starmer has a paternalistic streak (or an autocratic streak if you prefer), as many across the political spectrum do, but that's hardly communist. Does he want to nationalise the means of production? No. He's a capitalist-with-controls social democrat.

She worked with the structural economic analysis division at BOE before moving to HBOS. Not sure what you mean by "proper job", but if you are saying nobody who works for a retail bank has one, quite a few of my friends will take offence.

And wow, organisation has graduate scheme. How crazy. As someone who also joined a graduate scheme (not at BoE) I really don't know what you are on about.



Completely serious. It's a struggle even to call him a socialist. He's miles away from being a communist.

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Some would say he's certainly a champagne socialist , son of a toolmaker and addicted to freebies ?

As for Rachel , it doesn't say much for her training. She ,allegedly , needed help to fill in her Tax Return and had her Parliamentary CC suspended for exceeding the limit and forgot to pay off the arrears. Doesn't inspire confidence when managing the economy ?
It is also reported that the Shadow Chancellor had briefings from the OBR and BOE prior to the last GE . From those meetings, any "black hole " deficits would have been revealed prior to the election, casting doubts on " the fully costed " finances for the acclaimed policy agendas.
With their trips to the Swiss Alps and an admitted liking for the policies of wealthy entitled folks, it might be logical to assume where their preferred allegiances are focused?

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Originally Posted by Med Pie

Meanwhile, Tommy Robinson, whatever you think of him, continues to be victimised by the Government. He's now been moved from Belmarsh to Woodhill where, without cause, he's in the punishment block with no exercise, open visits or association and where he has a history of being attacked by Muslims.

The government is setting him up to get murdered in prison by one of the Muslim gangs who are said to 'run' many UK prisons.

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The circumstances and consequences of this for free speech are extremely worrying for everyone regardless of politics. In essence the government are trying to kill Tommy Robinson in a way that Putin would with his political opponents.

Putting someone in to a High security jail for what was a civil not criminal crime is beyond belief. The fact that the government are also trying to silence talk around certain cases and then ‘call out’ people for crimes they don’t see as correct is also very worrying.

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Originally Posted by OchPie

Yeah, and I said THE core principle is the exact opposite of what you claimed A core principle to be.



If you trained as a lawyer, surely you must recognise that "who knew what and when" links directly to the investigative techniques used and the timing of evidence collection, which itself can be *****ly important in a criminal case? Of course in some cases it may not be, and if that is so the judge can lift reporting restrictions. That's how it is supposed to work, which for someone trained as a lawyer, you should know.

Took less than ten seconds of googling to find: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz0mrz5ln3eo

Most grooming gangs in the UK are made up of white men. What "cultural differences" do you blame that on? Or do you just think the victims of white grooming gangs should shut up and be ignored because that's not a "cultural difference" to talk about?

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Simply being allowed to show that the government lied to the public, is not, pivotal to the actual case.

Can you show me a recent example of a white grooming gang, plenty of individuals but gangs? Denying that a cultural problem exists, ensures that it doesn't get addressed.

The Stasi was responsible for domestic political surveillance, espionage, and crime investigation. The Stasi's motto was "Schild und Schwert der Partei", which translates to "Shield and Sword of the Party".

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Originally Posted by SinceSept1959

Some would say he's certainly a champagne socialist , son of a toolmaker and addicted to freebies ?

As for Rachel , it doesn't say much for her training. She ,allegedly , needed help to fill in her Tax Return and had her Parliamentary CC suspended for exceeding the limit and forgot to pay off the arrears. Doesn't inspire confidence when managing the economy ?
It is also reported that the Shadow Chancellor had briefings from the OBR and BOE prior to the last GE . From those meetings, any "black hole " deficits would have been revealed prior to the election, casting doubts on " the fully costed " finances for the acclaimed policy agendas.
With their trips to the Swiss Alps and an admitted liking for the policies of wealthy entitled folks, it might be logical to assume where their preferred allegiances are focused?

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I am sure some would say he is a champagne socialist, not that there's much evidence for his affinity to either of those things. The freebie stuff is damn stupid of him admittedly.

As for Reeves, I could do my own taxes but also pay someone to do them for me. I know how to use a vacuum but still hire a cleaner, too. It's a weird attack.

The Tories promising compensation for the infected blood scandal but not actually putting money aside for it is one good example of where that black hole came from. That wasn't shared with the OBR either.

As for the Swiss Alps, who doesn't like them? But being close to wealthy entitled folk doesn't exactly sound like a communist, does it? As it happens I do think Labour can be a bit too corporatist. Thatcher made the "nation of shopkeepers" quite firmly a Tory preoccupation, and that is something Labour need to break the habit of.

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Originally Posted by Med Pie

Simply being allowed to show that the government lied to the public, is not, pivotal to the actual case.

Can you show me a recent example of a white grooming gang, plenty of individuals but gangs? Denying that a cultural problem exists, ensures that it doesn't get addressed.

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How do you know it is not pivotal to the actual case?

There will be plenty of time after the case to show if they lied or not. The speaker has guaranteed time to discuss it.

As for the white grooming gang, the Walsall one from 2023 is the first that comes to mind. I hope ITV is trustworthy enough for you. https://www.itv.com/news/central/202...s-biggest-case