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Don’t quite follow this ‘can you explain to RA’ strategy of yours, Andy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Faber
Don’t recall ever doubting how much time and effort business has had to spend on preparing for every eventuality.
But I’ll endeavour to explain to you...my despair is at quite how much time and money has had to be spent on such negative and wholly avoidable preperations by both business and politicians.
I share your despair its been a ****up from minute 1, BUT if everyone (politicians, business men, placard warriors, forum posters) had been united in recognising that 'Brexit means Brexit' and 'making it work' we would be in a better position for the challenge aheadQuote:
Originally Posted by ramAnag
Ah, I see...so if we’d all got behind an act of self harm in the first place, which you voted against and recently conceded is quite likely to make us poorer, then everything would be so much better and the current mess is all the fault of the 63% who didn’t vote ‘Leave’.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Faber
I think our respective outlooks, Pragmatist v idealist, doer v dreamer, means we'll just keep disagreeing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ramAnag
Really? Good spot!Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Faber
You forgot consistent v fence sitter not to mention the fact that a second Referendum - which you always said would never happen - appears to be getting ever closer.
I wouldn’t say you were that much of a ‘dreamer’ ;D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Faber
One flaw in that proposition, well more than one really, but the BIG one is that those very people who have and continue to promote Brexit, have conveniently forgotten all the very big lies that were told about how easy it would be to achieve and how it would be perfectly possible to leave a club due to dislike of certain rules and regulations and paying the membership fee and keep access to the bits they did like.
Quelle Surprise when this wasn't the case!
IF those politicians who so trumpet how marvellous brexit is, had firstly come forward with a clear coherent plan as to for Brexit and secondly stepped forward and taken responsibility for it, then you might have a point.
But what we continually get, is a useless pillock -Davies, who from all accounts couldn't negotiate his way out of a paper bag and didn't either spend the time or when he was doing so completely pissed off the other side and hadn't a clue what he was doing. Johnson a self serving disingenuous waffler, who loves making bold statements but has no substance behind them and Rees-Mogg who snipes from the sidelines.
Farage ****ed off to cosy up to Trump whilst shamelessly trousering the MEP salry and the pension - funny he hates the EU but happy to take their shilling, and disappears completely after his *******s has contributed to this mess - lets not forget his atrocious poster showing non eu migrants supposedly pouring into the country!
The latest laugh is those Farmers who voted to leave but then suddenly complain that a) a lot of their product is exported to the EU and second the government isn't long term going to pour moeny in subsidies to them - oops what a conflict their 1950's isolationist views contradict their economic needs!
So is the principle of an a completely independent state (lets be real here though, we wont be, it will be an illusion, because we will now be obliged to cosy up to other countries in order to do trade deals, which might mean being overlooking some of the ways those countries operate, or being obliged to join in conflicts that aren't ours) worth the economic chaos it will cause us?
I don't disagree with most of that, my point is different, and that is that every Remainer who who's life's work has been to work towards a reversal of the decision has contributed to post-Brexit UK being weaker than it would otherwise be.Quote:
Originally Posted by swaledale
Blimey Andy...make your mind up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Faber
Swale’s post is, imo, correct in every thing he says. Didn’t expect you to agree with it but you apparently do - ‘I don’t disagree with most of that’ - and then in the very same sentence you start blaming the ‘Remainers’ again!
I know I’ve criticised the number and rapidity of mind changes you’ve made before, but you simply can’t keep blaming those of us who have consistently opposed Brexit for the current chaos. It isn’t us who set the UK on a self destructive course towards being worse off and more isolated.
IMO we are headed for NO DEAL with all that entails. Both imports and exports will be more expensive for both the EU and the UK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Faber
I take a different view, i think by and large most are trying to achieve a result that recognises the referendum result whilst minimising the negative impact on the country - a difficult task given that the Brexiteers made no mention of the negative impacts of leaving the EU and have seemingly refused to acknowledge there will be any since the vote.
May for all her faults is in an impossible position trying to appease a Tory party which is clearly more interested in the pursuit of ideological agendas than governing the country, something the largely Tory media would be crucf theywere in power.
So tolay the blame for the current state of affairs is wide of the mark, if leavers were prepared to compromise on thier suicidal and unrealistic vision of "crashing out" of the EU, whilst maintaining the benefits that they like - then we would probably be closer to a solution.
Instead there is no clear idea about what leave means - other than the ideological purists who don't seem to care what the negative impact will be and certainly have no intention of enlightening those who voted leave as to the effect on them.
Untangling 40 years of close political, regulatory and economic ties was never going to be easy and its pure recklessness and utter lies to say that it is as Johnson, Farage, Rees-Mogg and Davies have claimed in the past.