O/T:- ⚠️Impressed with the leadership [The UK Party Politics Thread]

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Originally Posted by Bohinen

That quotation about best of luck, there's no money left, etc, as I understand it is what every new Chancellor finds in their in-tray when they take office, it's Chancellor bantz, an in-joke that these people seem to find amusing. If you think about the Chancellors we have had, they have more in common with other Chancellors than anyone in their own party. There is a type, people who take joy from fine details and complicating things as much as is humanely possible.

Re 1979, I don't remember it as being that bad. Like most people at the time, I was working and could afford to go on holidays and spend money, far more so than today. Mass unemployment came later in the 80s.

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In 1979 the rate of inflation was 13.4 %. That was about 30 months after Dennis Healey signed a Letter of Intent to the IMF, committing to significant public expenditure cuts in return for a $3.9 billion loan.

Like most of us, when you look back on life, you only remember the sunny days. Don't worry we all do it.

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Originally Posted by jackal2

I'm pretty certain the Conservative Party membership have picked Kemi not for any 'trendy' reason but because she's the candidate who appears to have best and most consistently articulated idea of what Conservatives should actually stand for, and what they should oppose. Ideally she would have 5-10 years' experience before getting to this level, but as you say there's a dearth of quality politicians in general across all parties these days, so if you've got one who shows the potential to be great then you've got to run with them and let them learn on the job.

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This. From what I've seen, she's got strong views and is able to articulate them clearly. She's not another Kamala Harris appointment designed to appeal to certain demographics.

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Originally Posted by i961pie

As usual? Were you around in 1979 when they left office with the country virtually bankcrupt?
And didn't they leave a note the last time saying something like best of luck we are broke or words to that effect.
Under Blair we did prosper for most of the time I agree but it didn't end well.

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It didn't end well but that was mostly the US crashing the global economy. The "no money left" letter was a private joke and tradition the Tories weaponised.

The winter of discontent was appalling. What happened next, it's hard to say it was better. Memories of being stopped just for driving and being male, by a police force you knew was ready to bash your head in.

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Originally Posted by Lullapie

There is a pattern with Labour. As they can’t generate wealth, they spend everything they inherit and then borrow and tax.

You tend to get 1 or 2 years of ‘prosperity’ then that’s followed by high inflation and recession as the following government has to deal with the aftermath.

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If you think high inflation and recession haven't happened under the Tories, you have a very short memory.

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Originally Posted by Med Pie

No, they want parity, punishments relative to offence and criminal background and a genuinely independent judiciary, not taking cues from the PM. There is no way that shouting abuse, whatever the content, deserves almost three years in jail and all that will follow, loss of housing, employment etc.

Most of the people who were convicted, could probably appeal on the basis that they received ineffective representation. They should all have pleaded not guilty and insisted on their right to a trial by jury.

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Most of them would have been convicted and got longer sentences as a result. Shouting abuse is one thing, but encouraging (or perpetrating) violence as the jailed protestors did is quite another thing. Strangely that seems to often get left out of the narratives around them.

We in this country take a dim view of encouraging murder.

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Originally Posted by Notsohumblepie

In 1979 the rate of inflation was 13.4 %. That was about 30 months after Dennis Healey signed a Letter of Intent to the IMF, committing to significant public expenditure cuts in return for a $3.9 billion loan.

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Inflation in 1980 was 18%. This was in part from Thatcher's government almost doubling the rate of VAT.

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Originally Posted by OchPie

I honestly don't have a clue what you are talking about, and I suspect you don't either.

Mentioning the last Labour PM to win an election in the same breath as the latest one - oh no, how could they possibly be linked?

Life got substantially better for the vast majority of the country under Blair and Brown, even if there remained clear issues and there were mistakes. As usual they handed over a mostly functional country to the Tories, who proceeded to asset strip and run down the place so that a few of their friends didn't have to pay as much tax.




No, of course not. But in general those of us on the left accept that the JSO protestors (as an example) have to face the consequences of their actions. The right wants those protestors to face far harsher punishment while giving a free ride to all those it agrees with.

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Really ?
I certainly understand having lived through those times and very hard times previously too.
I also understand and recollect historical events and facts , not the history, often rewritten to suit the Agenda.
I'm obviously much older than yourself, worked for what I have and wasn't subject to the indoctrination that passes for education and "uni" these days.
Life isn't much better these days for most working people. Thanks to Bliar in particular !
Don't forget that Brown trashed the economy, wrecked pension schemes and left the treasury float bankrupt ala Liam Byrne's I.O.U., not forgetting Foreign Policy calamities in The Middle East ??

Being a former staunch Trade Unionist Official, CLP Delegate and having met many politicians, my eyes were opened and I vowed never to vote Labour ever again.
Almost 30 years since, the calibre and hypocrisy of Labour and their candidates becomes progressively worse.


Wisdom comes with age and experience of life.
Most of us start out "on the left " with idealistic , utopian aspirations but end up very disappointed with the declining standards , morals and respect in this country, not withstanding the vast chasms between the super wealthy and those in poverty.

Maybe in time , you will realise that the system doesn't work for ordinary working people .
The working man being marginally better off under the Tories.
There are circa 9.5 million people in this country who won't or can't work.
Others therefore pick up the tab for their upkeep .

Remember the old saying
The Poor can't pay , The Rich won't pay so The working man has to pay !

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Originally Posted by SinceSept1959

Wisdom comes with age and experience of life. Most of us start out "on the left " with idealistic , utopian aspirations but end up very disappointed with the declining standards , morals and respect in this country, not withstanding the vast chasms between the super wealthy and those in poverty.

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And you blame those "declining standards, morals and respect in this country, not withstanding the vast chasms between the super wealthy and those in poverty" on the Labour party????

For someone who claims to have wisdom, how did you manage to miss the destruction that 14 years of Tory rule did to this country?

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Originally Posted by SinceSept1959

Really ?

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Really.

If your birth year is in your handle, yes you've got a few years on me. Less than two decades, more than one. I've worked for what I have too. That's generally the way it works. It's true the Tories left a lot of workers on the scrapheap, shameful really. But it's what they do.

I've also met a lot of politicians. Heads of state. Ministers. All around the world. Labour like all parties has had its ups and downs, and far too many people in politics haven't really worked outside of politics. I have. I've seen the best and the worst of the world.

Maybe in time, you'll realise that people have got richer and more fearful as they get older. More concerned about protecting what they have, less open to risks. But thanks to how difficult it's become for the young to do that, they're not really turning conservative as they get older any more. I saw it starting in my generation. The one behind me - reached or heading into their 30s - it's impossible to ignore.

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Originally Posted by OchPie

Really.

If your birth year is in your handle, yes you've got a few years on me. Less than two decades, more than one. I've worked for what I have too. That's generally the way it works. It's true the Tories left a lot of workers on the scrapheap, shameful really. But it's what they do.

I've also met a lot of politicians. Heads of state. Ministers. All around the world. Labour like all parties has had its ups and downs, and far too many people in politics haven't really worked outside of politics. I have. I've seen the best and the worst of the world.

Maybe in time, you'll realise that people have got richer and more fearful as they get older. More concerned about protecting what they have, less open to risks. But thanks to how difficult it's become for the young to do that, they're not really turning conservative as they get older any more. I saw it starting in my generation. The one behind me - reached or heading into their 30s - it's impossible to ignore.

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Patronising, condescending, and name dropping all in one post. Breathtaking !

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Originally Posted by Notsohumblepie

Patronising, condescending, and name dropping all in one post. Breathtaking !

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I thought it was a good parody, so thank you.

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Originally Posted by OchPie

If you think high inflation and recession haven't happened under the Tories, you have a very short memory.

Inflation in 1980 was 18%. This was in part from Thatcher's government almost doubling the rate of VAT.

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Of course high inflation has happened under the Tories, but often it was a result of the previous Labour Government's policies. Thank you for pointing out the Thatcher one, as that proves my point.

When Labour are voted out, the impact of the wasteful spending doesn't stop as soon as they have gone. It takes years to get monetary policy back under control.

With regards to your point about Thatcher (Geoffrey Howe) increasing VAT rate from 8% to 15%, you neglect to add that there were two VAT rates then and one of them was previously at 25%, as set by the previous Labour government (Denis Healey).

In addition, the Tories in the late 70s and 80s were hell bent on taking Britain fully into the EU and the tax rates had to align. The countries in the EU at the time, did have higher consumption taxes than the UK.

You also neglected to mention that 'other' tax cuts that the Tories made during that period.

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Originally Posted by Lullapie

When Labour are voted out, the impact of the wasteful spending doesn't stop as soon as they have gone. It takes years to get monetary policy back under control.

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So will you afford this Labour government similar tolerance after the way the Tories left the economy?