O/T: Anna Soubry becomes a leaver.

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Originally Posted by optipez

Would you have been just as thick to vote for Chris Leslie?
Are we not entitled to think the main plank of a manifesto means something?

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Derek T w atton, suspended, readmitted, suspended !!!

Anna Sourmush Tory, SDP, Tory. TIG, my heads spinning...............

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Originally Posted by optipez

Would you have been just as thick to vote for Chris Leslie?
Are we not entitled to think the main plank of a manifesto means something?

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Yes we are, Tory voters were conned in Broxtowe and Labour voters were conned in Nottingham East. It doesn't matter whether you're left or right, it's clearly unreasonable for your MP to jump ship and not hold a by-election. I voted for Vernon Coaker, not because I like him, but because I vote Labour. He isn't a massive fan of Corbyn, but at least he's loyal to the party, and also a hard working constituency MP who is often seen at events in Gedling.

Chris Leslie, on the other hand, is a lazy arse who cares nothing for Nottingham and for Soubry, it's all about her. I can't stand either of them.

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Originally Posted by JoePass

Wrong. The majority won. Out of the customs union, out all together of the corrupt and failing EUSSR, the hardest of hard Brexits please. What do you think the Marxist Corbyn would do, well, today I mean, I know it will change tomorrow.

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With you there JP. It is the job of parliament to deliver what the country asked them to at the referendum. If they don't then never ask me to vote again. They are a load of self serving hippocrites.

Britain has never sat comfortably with Europe and the younger ones on here would do well to read up on the history of the EU. de Gaulle, who escaped here when the Nazis took over his country, organised resistance from here, relied on Britain to free his country, point blank refused Churchill a role in the new Europe - non non non.

When eventually we got into the Common Market there was a referendum, the Common Market being a trading agreement. We never got to vote on the EUSSR. We retained our currency. We did not join Schengen. We had constant battles and arguments. Maastricht - John Major is accused of hiding facts from the public.

Even Europe is not that united on the EU. Have a look at

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refere...European_Union

Switzerland, geographically in the centre, manages despite being surrounded. Norway has borders with Sweden.

David Cameron was given a right run around despite not wanting to make Europe an issue in his coalition. Non Non Non by what I see as faceless bureaucrats who I can't vote out. He was forced to run an election on the platform of "I'll promise you a referendum if I get voted back in". Guess what, he got voted back in - on the strength of that vote and with the rise of UKIP. Why do you think UKIP got so much attention. Just look at some of the countries that had massive support to join the EU. Free money, free movement. I often walk between the Vat & Fiddle and Queen St and sometimes I felt like wearing a placard "English can be spoken here".

So we get the referendum the country voted for and surprise surprise the country voted for OUT. Not the snowflake youngsters who have never known otherwise perhaps, though I know a couple who have taken the trouble to learn their history.

Shame on parliament who have been given a task and are making a real pig's ear of it. This is not about them - it is about us, the people, however small the margin. That's the way this country is supposed to work, majority rules, not 75%, or the majority of the electorate but the majority of those who voted.

Get on with it.

*when I say "you" I mean the reader in general not JP in particular :)

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Originally Posted by Elite_Pie

Laugh all you like, but I think she has a point as do the Labour leavers. Both parties seem to be being infiltrated by some pretty nasty people who want to move them in a more extreme direction. The last thing we need is extremism, whether it's right or left.

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Labour is meant to be left wing, the Tories are meant to be right wing. It's good to have some distance between the parties and a clear definition of where they stand. The only thing that unites the new group (who are a company and not a party) is that they are all lazy ****s who were about to be booted out by their local parties.

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Originally Posted by Bohinen

Labour is meant to be left wing, the Tories are meant to be right wing. It's good to have some distance between the parties and a clear definition of where they stand. The only thing that unites the new group (who are a company and not a party) is that they are all lazy ****s who were about to be booted out by their local parties.

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But has there been a clear definition between them in recent years? Would you describe Blair as left wing? Would you describe May as right wing? Think of her "I'll govern for the many not the few" inauguration speech. You could be right about the new party, but would they really be any worse than the lazy ****s affiliated to their local party?

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Originally Posted by Elite_Pie

But has there been a clear definition between them in recent years? Would you describe Blair as left wing? Would you describe May as right wing? Think of her "I'll govern for the many not the few" inauguration speech. You could be right about the new party, but would they really be any worse than the lazy ****s affiliated to their local party?

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No, I wouldn't describe Blair as left wing, I would describe him as a ****.

Now you could argue that the rest of the MPs are not much better, but I have given an example locally of Vernon Coaker, who is certainly not far left, who works far harder than Chris Leslie. Why would anyone support this lot, who are at the bottom of the barrel even by MP's standards. Left or right, is that the only issue? How about good or bad? No-one is so bland to have a centrist view on everything, sometimes the left are right, sometimes the right, but the centre is always a pointless compromise.

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Originally Posted by Bohinen

No, I wouldn't describe Blair as left wing, I would describe him as a ****.

Now you could argue that the rest of the MPs are not much better, but I have given an example locally of Vernon Coaker, who is certainly not far left, who works far harder than Chris Leslie. Why would anyone support this lot, who are at the bottom of the barrel even by MP's standards. Left or right, is that the only issue? How about good or bad? No-one is so bland to have a centrist view on everything, sometimes the left are right, sometimes the right, but the centre is always a pointless compromise.

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Which leaves us with an incompetent right, an incompetent left, and a pointless compromise in the middle.

You could be right, but I'm interested to see what they have to say before writing them off.

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Originally Posted by Elite_Pie

Laugh all you like, but I think she has a point as do the Labour leavers. Both parties seem to be being infiltrated by some pretty nasty people who want to move them in a more extreme direction. The last thing we need is extremism, whether it's right or left. Even if it gets formed it's doubtful that this new party will amount to anything (although they are as low as 8/1 to win the next general election), but if it turns out to be the first step in breaking the two-party political stranglehold it will be worthwhile.

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I am not particularly political and vote for the best person who I feel is standing. I voted Labour but then when I moved voted Conservative as the candidate was the best one, although admittedly the best of a bad bunch.

However, I do question why the Labour front bench resigned so close to one another. There had to be a very valid reason. The Labour big four, Corbyn, Abbott, Thornberry and McDonnell fill me with dread if they ever get in. On the Tory side, the group led by Rees-Mogg are a party within a party, and though they haven't resigned the whip, are they any better than those who have had the bottle to walk.

Interesting days ahead.

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Originally Posted by Elite_Pie

Laugh all you like, but I think she has a point as do the Labour leavers. Both parties seem to be being infiltrated by some pretty nasty people who want to move them in a more extreme direction. The last thing we need is extremism, whether it's right or left. Even if it gets formed it's doubtful that this new party will amount to anything (although they are as low as 8/1 to win the next general election), but if it turns out to be the first step in breaking the two-party political stranglehold it will be worthwhile.

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The 2 party system was broken in France and other countries are following, whether that is good or bad I don't know.
It isn't going great for the French at the moment though.
I don't think it matters how many new parties we form here really because it is obvious it will take more than a new party to unite this country at the moment.

Anti Brexit but Tory Lite seems to be the early message.

Not exactly anything to get too excited about, getting Jess Phillips and Tom Watson involved would be good.