Boris & The Pandemic

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Originally Posted by SwedishBaggie

Fear and panic are dangerous things.

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So too are ignorance of the facts Thomas......
How ever anybody wants to view this topic, that is there right individually.......but facts are facts....this is much much more contagious then the flu....this kills certain groups more willingly then the flu....this is so contagious, that it has remained in circulation in the population throughout the summer months, when the normal flu virus goes away...
Now....we all know that.
Are masks a cure? No. Masks can in many circumstances slow the rate of transmission among the general population.
Does hand sanitizing/washing prevent me from contracting C-19? No. It again helps reduce the spread of a highly infectious disease.
Does staying 2 meters away from someone help prevent getting infected? Yes. However that risk increases if you are not wearing a mask or eye guard.
Is the virus spread through the air? Current understanding is that it is not...HOWEVER...there is mounting evidence that it may very well remain in the air (parasol) for much longer then thought of back in Feb/March. This is why the 2 meter rule is still in force...in some experiments, air conditioning has kept the virus airborne for hours on end.
It is a novel corona virus still.....

There was a film years a go..I never saw it..Sliding Doors...I think...about what ifs and buts with decisions...and how things change...

If the world didn't respond to the SARS-CovID-2 virus like it did back in February...and just carried on and treated it as a bad flu......where would we be now?
Personally I know the groups of people each year who dread winter not because of the dark evenings and cold months...but because they fear the seasonal flu because they have there own underling health issues...

If you are in good health then you are a very wealthy person...cause many are not...and I am not talking about over 50's,60's or older groups. What became known as the Spanish flu of 1918 killed millions in a few years...most were in the age group of 20-40. So far that has not been the case. Those exposed to an earlier flu virus in the late 19th century had more immunity to the 1918 strain then those born after the earlier flu of late 19th century.

These viruses habitually mutate and some times quickly....that is why the yearly flu vaccine is only 33% probable the right one...in a few months they can change..
Now again...this virus is what's know as Novel...it is new and data is ongoing in understanding....partly why world governments are always chopping and changing....get use to it...or not...

So again, all I would say is,... if you like.... continue to do your own thing...cough snot spit or whatever your normal hygiene habits are.....I see people behaving like that today anyway...pandemic or no pandemic.....I just keep well away from them at best.......but ultimately this is evolution...evolution of a virus...evolution of a species in response to it and and eventually change in the end.....

I always remember listening to an evolutionary biologist explaining why the Dinosaurs after millions of years on the planet succumbed to evolution in the end. When asked why? He replied..."They never stayed informed and up todate...they didn't read!"
O:)

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Originally Posted by Dubbag

So too are ignorance of the facts Thomas......
How ever anybody wants to view this topic, that is there right individually.......but facts are facts....this is much much more contagious then the flu....this kills certain groups more willingly then the flu....this is so contagious, that it has remained in circulation in the population throughout the summer months, when the normal flu virus goes away...
Now....we all know that.
Are masks a cure? No. Masks can in many circumstances slow the rate of transmission among the general population.
Does hand sanitizing/washing prevent me from contracting C-19? No. It again helps reduce the spread of a highly infectious disease.
Does staying 2 meters away from someone help prevent getting infected? Yes. However that risk increases if you are not wearing a mask or eye guard.
Is the virus spread through the air? Current understanding is that it is not...HOWEVER...there is mounting evidence that it may very well remain in the air (parasol) for much longer then thought of back in Feb/March. This is why the 2 meter rule is still in force...in some experiments, air conditioning has kept the virus airborne for hours on end.
It is a novel corona virus still.....

There was a film years a go..I never saw it..Sliding Doors...I think...about what ifs and buts with decisions...and how things change...

If the world didn't respond to the SARS-CovID-2 virus like it did back in February...and just carried on and treated it as a bad flu......where would we be now?
Personally I know the groups of people each year who dread winter not because of the dark evenings and cold months...but because they fear the seasonal flu because they have there own underling health issues...

If you are in good health then you are a very wealthy person...cause many are not...and I am not talking about over 50's,60's or older groups. What became known as the Spanish flu of 1918 killed millions in a few years...most were in the age group of 20-40. So far that has not been the case. Those exposed to an earlier flu virus in the late 19th century had more immunity to the 1918 strain then those born after the earlier flu of late 19th century.

These viruses habitually mutate and some times quickly....that is why the yearly flu vaccine is only 33% probable the right one...in a few months they can change..
Now again...this virus is what's know as Novel...it is new and data is ongoing in understanding....partly why world governments are always chopping and changing....get use to it...or not...

So again, all I would say is,... if you like.... continue to do your own thing...cough snot spit or whatever your normal hygiene habits are.....I see people behaving like that today anyway...pandemic or no pandemic.....I just keep well away from them at best.......but ultimately this is evolution...evolution of a virus...evolution of a species in response to it and and eventually change in the end.....

I always remember listening to an evolutionary biologist explaining why the Dinosaurs after millions of years on the planet succumbed to evolution in the end. When asked why? He replied..."They never stayed informed and up todate...they didn't read!"
O:)

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Facts can be many different things DB, and it is probably difficult to agree with them all, when we are talking about complex things.

Some facts:

- look at the total death rate so fare, and put that in comparison with population etc

- Denmark are now going in to some kind of ”panic mode” because numbers are rising. 62 people (2 in intensive care) are hospitalized due to Corona as we speak, and there are some ca 5,8 million people living in Denmark... This is similar in many countries - please put things into proportion and do the maths someone, when ”the facts/numbers” are out there.

- draconian measures (eg lockdowns) cause a lot of bad health - for instance, there is a 63 % higher risk of mortality if you are unemployed. Domestic violence rise, children with needs suffer etc, etc.

- 84 % of all 90 years old and older who get Corona survive

- And the most important question - how many die directly from Corona - in Sweden ca 15 %... Therefore, in Sweden, we now see fewer people than average per month dying July-September, whereas more than average died March-May, so quite possibly, the rate per year could be quite ”normal” (the reason of course was that the vast majority who died were very fragile and died one or two months earlier). And for this one should violate freedom and human rights (for which generations before us people have fought and died) and put healthy people at danger?

And there are of course more ”facts”, but I won’t bore you. 😊

Good hygiene, sanitizers, avoid too ”densely populated areas”, good working conditions and capacity in the NHS, stay home if ill, good stock of medicine and PPE etc, of course and always, that is common sense and being prudent. 😊

Take care. 😊

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Originally Posted by Baggiemadguern

A very sensible post Prando

Lockdown lockdown. I live in a small community of circa 65,000. In March we went into lock down, we were a little slow to close our borders, it should have been done mid February, the reasoning it was not, was to allow students to return from university’s and school skiing trips etc. Alas, cases rose and we had a small number of deaths, particularly in homes for the elderly. Once cases started to rise the borders were shut and the usual lock down rules were implemented i.e. only one household member was allowed to shop, queuing at supermarkets and only two hours of exercise a day. Nearly every business closed. We were particularly lucky back in March that we had an exceptionally warm spring as we are having a really warm Autumn at the moment.

Track and trace was introduced early on and though it was never the intention to eradicate the virus eradicate it it did. Come May we started to bubble with families and in a June all restrictions were gone, other than travel. Borders opened in July with voluntary isolation and testing etc on return.

We have had two positive cases since then as some selfish idiots thought they would holiday etc. At least they seem to have caught them in the net as they returned. We are small island but quite heavily populated so a success story all the same. The UK, France and Spain are a few of the countries that caved in to those that wanted to open businesses and start to travel on holiday all in order to kick start their economy’s You are still allowed to travel around much of the UK, yet the virus numbers is climbing uncontrollably. What stupidity.

Lookdown will work and will be a large factor in eradicating this virus, unfortunately as winter approaches there will be much to regret insomuch countries did not deal effectively with this virus at the outset. Standing in a supermarket queue in the middle of winter will be the least of ones worries. It might be the last chance to get things it in place, albeit is probably to late now, before what might be a winter of nightmare proportions starts.

The Isle of Man Government have done the same as with the same success. We do have an air corridor with the IOM at present with no testing required, which, on a side note, has led to some good sporting contests.

I also noted very, very few people locally wore masks during our short period of lockdown but I have to say nearly everyone complied with the rules and hand hygiene etc.

About five people have been arrested for breaking isolation rules, the maximum fine is £10,000 for each offence. One UK worker was fined £9,000 for three offences, he could not pay so is serving the alternative of 9 months.

We are so, so lucky here, life is back to normal, everything is open, yes some businesses are suffering, travel firms and local airlines but we are free to go where we want when we want.

The UK is it’s own worst enemy sometimes, no more so than with the handling of this virus.

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Last week we had 195 Covid deaths whist Spain had 1077 and France had 563.

In terms of deaths per million residents we had 49 per million,

Spain had 586

France had 110.

On average we have 1687 deaths per day in the U.K. made up of,

124 from flu

460 from heart disease

450 from cancer

240 from dementia

84 from lung disease

16 from DIY accidents

16 from stomach bugs and CDiff

15 from suicide

9 still births

5 in road accidents

Covid killed 11 people a day on the week ending the 4th Sept.


DIY is more dangerous than Covid and this has proved I was right in my lifetime of avoiding doing any!

On a serious note though........the figures above do nothing but convince me that government is not bothered about protecting people.......it’s all about the NHS not looking bad.

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Originally Posted by mickd1961

Last week we had 195 Covid deaths whist Spain had 1077 and France had 563.

In terms of deaths per million residents we had 49 per million,

Spain had 586

France had 110.

On average we have 1687 deaths per day in the U.K. made up of,

124 from flu

460 from heart disease

450 from cancer

240 from dementia

84 from lung disease

16 from DIY accidents

16 from stomach bugs and CDiff

15 from suicide

9 still births

5 in road accidents

Covid killed 11 people a day on the week ending the 4th Sept.


DIY is more dangerous than Covid and this has proved I was right in my lifetime of avoiding doing any!

On a serious note though........the figures above do nothing but convince me that government is not bothered about protecting people.......it’s all about the NHS not looking bad.

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Good with some more figures. 😎

This Government is now lurching towards more menace and lunacy in equal amounts. This is now a disastrous Government with a cabinet full of clowns and petty tin pot tyrants.

The menace is that this mediocre Government can wreck your life, your business, the economy, when death covid rates are near to zero and the lunacy is that now people can actually be fined £10,000 for being tested a false positive. If ya don't know what a false positive is, then look it up, cus there is a heck of a lot of these false positives about

Not mention that if through track & trace you're told to isolate and then claim to have tested negative without having been tested at all, who checks to corroborate your story?

It's a bit of a mess.

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Originally Posted by mickd1961

Last week we had 195 Covid deaths whist Spain had 1077 and France had 563.

In terms of deaths per million residents we had 49 per million,

Spain had 586

France had 110.

On average we have 1687 deaths per day in the U.K. made up of,

124 from flu

460 from heart disease

450 from cancer

240 from dementia

84 from lung disease

16 from DIY accidents

16 from stomach bugs and CDiff

15 from suicide

9 still births

5 in road accidents

Covid killed 11 people a day on the week ending the 4th Sept.


DIY is more dangerous than Covid and this has proved I was right in my lifetime of avoiding doing any!

On a serious note though........the figures above do nothing but convince me that government is not bothered about protecting people.......it’s all about the NHS not looking bad.

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I like a post like that........
What to me it points to, is that people die every day through many different ways...and a lot of them are simple life style choices...plain and simple...Here in Ireland for example a lot more women are presenting in hospitals with liver failure/complaints. This has been attributed to many shops and the like selling cheap alcohol....but female alcohol abuse is on a big increase....choices people make.....Not all of course but many...which is why education is so important..
I agree with both you and Thomas you can produce facts after facts to show one side or another..

For me...the still remaining huge fact surrounding Covid-19 and I posted this back in end of April early May time....that approximately 22,000 children die each and every day through starvation or malnutrition related illness...in other words they don't eat enough food to stay alive in a healthy manner....22,000!!!
While obesity is on the increase around the world as well....
And consider this fact....THERE ARE STILL APPROXIMATELY 200,000 MORE HUMAN BEINGS ON THE PLANET AT THE END OF EACH DAY,EVERY DAY!
So in the grand scheme of things SARS-COvid2 is insignificant in terms of over all deaths...Yet it has brought the global economy close to its knees....:?
Confused? Well you should be........because all the governments of the world are....

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Originally Posted by westcountryvillain

Not mention that if through track & trace you're told to isolate and then claim to have tested negative without having been tested at all, who checks to corroborate your story?

It's a bit of a mess.

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Certainly is a mess WCV - Boris is like something out of Laurel and Hardy and in truth - I can’t stand listening to him now! Said at the time and will say again - all credibility was lost when he protected his chum for getting his eyes tested at Barnard Castle. Is it any wonder why the public do their own thing and inconsistencies are everywhere from shops to schools to
Pubs etc. In my bank they treat you if you have the plaque and staff are all kitted up. Go up the road to other shops - they couldn’t care less what you do and staff don’t bother with masks. Even many pubs couldn’t be bothered with taking addresses or leave a book outside on a chair!

The whole thing is a joke just like Boris

Boris, it now seems, was just a one trick pony ie Brexit. He'll probably end up buggering that up as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mickd1961

Last week we had 195 Covid deaths whist Spain had 1077 and France had 563.

In terms of deaths per million residents we had 49 per million,

Spain had 586

France had 110.

On average we have 1687 deaths per day in the U.K. made up of,

124 from flu

460 from heart disease

450 from cancer

240 from dementia

84 from lung disease

16 from DIY accidents

16 from stomach bugs and CDiff

15 from suicide

9 still births

5 in road accidents

Covid killed 11 people a day on the week ending the 4th Sept.


DIY is more dangerous than Covid and this has proved I was right in my lifetime of avoiding doing any!

On a serious note though........the figures above do nothing but convince me that government is not bothered about protecting people.......it’s all about the NHS not looking bad.

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I've come to that same conclusion. No Government wants the NHS to fall on it's ar$e on their watch. It's all about protecting the system. Saving lives is a happy by-product.